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Youth Internationals

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Tobar » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 13:30

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:They played full-strength and hosted in 2016 and 2017, then went to U18 6N Festival with an A team and to RE tournament with a B team in 2018. Which makes me think even stronger that they were only willing to consolidate European votes for 2023 RWC bid.

Dont know which country is safer, France or RSA? Neither of them sounds like safe to me. But France is better, unless we are talking about Paris or Marseille, in which case i prefer Algeria. D


Wat?

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 14:45

DRV says 7s U18 Championship has been canned too
https://twitter.com/DRVRugby/status/1083366025146576898

If it's true, what the hell is Rugby Europe doing nowadays? It's only strength compared to other regional bodies was the amount and seriousness of competition.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 14:49

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:They played full-strength and hosted in 2016 and 2017, then went to U18 6N Festival with an A team and to RE tournament with a B team in 2018. Which makes me think even stronger that they were only willing to consolidate European votes for 2023 RWC bid.

Dont know which country is safer, France or RSA? Neither of them sounds like safe to me. But France is better, unless we are talking about Paris or Marseille, in which case i prefer Algeria. D


You are joking, right?
France apparently has some more cannabis users. So beware of those potheads.
https://www.nationmaster.com/country-in ... rica/Crime

You are still 7-30 times (depends on how you use the statistics) more likelier to get murdered in South Africa.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 14:52

Armchair Fan wrote:DRV says 7s U18 Championship has been canned too
https://twitter.com/DRVRugby/status/1083366025146576898

If it's true, what the hell is Rugby Europe doing nowadays? It's only strength compared to other regional bodies was the amount and seriousness of competition.


From this two posts on twitter, I would rather conclude, that the Six Nations are sabotaging all other continental nations again. So the question is imho what the hell are the Six Nations doing again nowadays. Much more likelier that the 6N simply boycotted the U18 7s and therefore it was cancelled.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 15:10

I'm sorry but canceling a 7s tournament because six teams declined to take part in it (and this is just a hypothesis) is not 6N fault. It could still be held with eight teams at a decent level if Rugby Europe wanted to.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Canalina » Thu, 10 Jan 2019, 23:07

It's really a pity for Georgia, which proved to be at the same highness of Italy and France B at this age. Hard to understand this choice by the 6N; I start to think they really want -consciously or unconsciously- to sabotate (or, let's say, to make less easy) the georgian rugby growth.

The 6 Nations U18 should be played in Gloucester and Worcester with this calendar
13 april: Ireland v France, Scotland v Italy, England v Wales
17 april: Wales v Italy, Scotland v Ireland, England v France
21 april: Wales v Scotland, France v Italy, England v Ireland

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 01:51

It is a shame but in the 6N's point of view makes sense to have another 6N tournament.
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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 05:04

Canalina wrote:It's really a pity for Georgia, which proved to be at the same highness of Italy and France B at this age. Hard to understand this choice by the 6N; I start to think they really want -consciously or unconsciously- to sabotate (or, let's say, to make less easy) the georgian rugby growth.



Ok, i start to think that 6N is secret club. Who knows what is happening behind that closed door.

Really hope to start playing agaismnst southern kids, they are not getting psychological trauma by playing Rugby.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Canalina » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 07:13

Some doubts about these choices in our blog's article

http://www.rugby.it/news/2019/01/11/sar ... anche-noi/

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 08:29

victorsra wrote:It is a shame but in the 6N's point of view makes sense to have another 6N tournament.


I think we mix up two things. One is 7s. The newest scandal is about a 7s tournament cancelled, because some of the best continental nations decided not to take part. We are talking about an Olympic sport in the year before the Olympics. A sport where actually the gap is not that big as in XVs. Maybe and I mean just maybe, if one should be involved in a national Union, it is time to contact the IOC about this. This is serious business for a sport claiming not being a joke.

XVs is another thing, but the 15s 6N have nothing to do with that. Here the pityful news is that France after holding on for 4 years after the exit of the Shame Nations and Italy has now also left the continental tournament. As they had already played in last years U18 6N tournament, only the cancellation of the additional participation at the continental U18 Championship is news.

Seriously, in every other sport this would lead to a disqualification of all of those teams from that countries from all official tournaments organized by the World federation. Not taking part in a competition a continental union organizes is an absolutely no go.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 08:53, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 08:35

Canalina wrote:Some doubts about these choices in our blog's article

http://www.rugby.it/news/2019/01/11/sar ... anche-noi/


Nice comment. Hit the nail on the head. I am surprised how well Italian translates into English via google translate. They still haven't managed to translate German proper.

Someone should ask Brett Gosper on twitter what he thinks about the iron curtain the 6N are building.


Edit: interesting conversation on twitter:
https://twitter.com/gorrotxategui/statu ... 5934058496
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 11:58

One statement I'd like from WR is that for a team for qualify for the 'Europe' spot at the U20 Trophy, they need win the relevant competition. I.e. if one of the 6N gets relegated from the U20RWC they get one shot in the following year (as all relegated teams do), but if they then don't qualify then the only way for them to rejoin the competition would be to win the REU20s competition (but if they have to join from the bottom, then that's at least a 3 year endeavour), that alone may cause them to at least consider running a second side as a backup.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 12:46

Blurandski wrote:One statement I'd like from WR is that for a team for qualify for the 'Europe' spot at the U20 Trophy, they need win the relevant competition. I.e. if one of the 6N gets relegated from the U20RWC they get one shot in the following year (as all relegated teams do), but if they then don't qualify then the only way for them to rejoin the competition would be to win the REU20s competition (but if they have to join from the bottom, then that's at least a 3 year endeavour), that alone may cause them to at least consider running a second side as a backup.


I will never understand, why they don't do it anyway. I mean the side shouldn't be called B-side, but why not use the opportunity to prepare more players for higher ranks. Most 6N teams should have both the depth and the money for it.

Still furious about this decision. Shame, Shame, Shame on everybody involved in this from the 6N.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Silver Fox » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 13:15

Blurandski wrote:One statement I'd like from WR is that for a team for qualify for the 'Europe' spot at the U20 Trophy, they need win the relevant competition. I.e. if one of the 6N gets relegated from the U20RWC they get one shot in the following year (as all relegated teams do), but if they then don't qualify then the only way for them to rejoin the competition would be to win the REU20s competition (but if they have to join from the bottom, then that's at least a 3 year endeavour), that alone may cause them to at least consider running a second side as a backup.

This crossed my mind too.
But having become rather cynical I quickly dismissed it with the thought that in that case the U20RWC probably will be expanded to 16 teams.

But to be honest that wouldn't be a bad outcome either. Anyway, I can't wait for the day of one of them relegating to happen.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 13:33

Italy already got relegated in the past. I'd rather not see them involved in the European Championship at U20 level. At least if it's a qualifier for U20 Trophy. It's better to see the spot fought between contenders, without interferences.

But it's pointless to discuss about this. We've had enough proofs about how little do 6N care. France withdrawal is just another example, even more cynical given it arrives after winning their 2023 RWC bid. It seems the price for Rugby Europe votes was that, U18 tournaments, the promise of and expanded U20 6N+2 that today seems gone, French Barbarians in Georgia and a few training sessions with U20 Développement for Romania, Portugal and Spain.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Amargo » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 14:53

The two times that Italy was relegated the won the next year the Trophy so they haven't played yet in the Europe spot.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 15:26

This is getting annoying. Do not tell me that 6N U18 or U20 is "more than rugby", that its about tradition, money, tourism and having fun. Because U18 6N and U20 6N cant earn shit nowhere. So what is the real reason?

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby 4N » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 15:28

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:This is getting annoying. Do not tell me that 6N U18 or U20 is "more than rugby", that its about tradition, money, tourism and having fun. Because U18 6N and U20 6N cant earn shit nowhere. So what is the real reason?


They don’t care and Rugby Europe, despite representing some strong economies, doesn’t have any influence.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 16:34

4N wrote:They don’t care and Rugby Europe, despite representing some strong economies, doesn’t have any influence.


Influence and power can not be gifted or bought. Rugby Europe is not representing anyone. Its dead organization full of unprofessionals. I agree nobody cares. :)

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 16:46

Influence can be bought. But nobody in RE can buy.
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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby 4N » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 16:52

What he said.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby zgs » Fri, 11 Jan 2019, 16:56

I think that Georgian U18 team should be punished. Everything was so wonderful before they start beating 6N boys. With their stupid winnings they just destroyed U18 Championship. Now their U20 team started winning. Someone should to stop them otherwise I expect complete collapse of U20 competition.

Now seriously, I completely agree with RugbyLiebe, those shame teams deserve to be suspended from all official tournaments organized by the World federation.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby BigG » Sat, 12 Jan 2019, 09:42

I believe the coming WC U20 might become historic. Why? There is a big chance that one of the 6N' team will be relegated.

What is next? There are two options: 1) to extend number of team from 12 to 16 or 2) shameful nations will leave the tournament. The later looks great.

Any sport, including rugby should promote and support equality. There should not be a room for arrogant approaches.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Sat, 12 Jan 2019, 09:54

BigG wrote:There should not be a room for arrogant approaches.

Common, Irish U18s got "psychological trauma" by loosing to Georgian U18s. Same team got another psychological trauma in 2018 JRWC against same Georgian U20s. tfu...

Rugby's pros is challenge, passion, lust of victory, physical dominance and respect to opponents. none of those were shown by 6N. so F it, better seek another way. like united championship between, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Georgia, USA & Japan Canada/Romania/Uruguay/Russia/Spain/Germany... at all age grade teams, and senior level.

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Re: Youth Internationals

Postby Blurandski » Sat, 12 Jan 2019, 22:02

BigG wrote:I believe the coming WC U20 might become historic. Why? There is a big chance that one of the 6N' team will be relegated.

What is next? There are two options: 1) to extend number of team from 12 to 16 or 2) shameful nations will leave the tournament. The later looks great.

Any sport, including rugby should promote and support equality. There should not be a room for arrogant approaches.


There's no way that the 6N teams will leave the JRWC, not even a 1% possibility. But yeah, I suspect that the JRWC will be expanded within the next few years, which will be great for all involved, and we'll finally get a proper knockout system, plus it will enable more T2/3 nations to have junior intercontinental competition in the Trophy.

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