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2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby grande » Thu, 12 Jan 2017, 15:25

Figaro wrote:
Loohr wrote:Wales 16
Germany 16 (8 + 8)


Wales' competition is a bit weird. There's a 16-team league which all play each other once. Then, the league splits in two, the table points are reset with the top 8 playing each other again and the bottom 8 playing each other. In each case you reverse the fixture from the 16-team stage, so if Merthyr played Ponty away in the first round they will be at home in the second. As long as you get in the top 8 it doesn't really matter how well you do in the 16-team section). Then the top 4 of the top 8 have semi-final and final playoffs, whilst the bottom 8 are supposed to have a relegation playoff but it's been ring-fenced for a couple of years, so really they've nothing to play for.

I'm not sure what you mean by 8+8 in Germany but maybe this would apply to Wales as well?

Stupid system and I've no doubt it will be reformed sooner rather than later.


Sounds to me like how League One works, with the "Super 8."

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Figaro » Thu, 12 Jan 2017, 16:10

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:
Il logical language "or" means "one or the other, not both".

NO WAY, Sir

What you mean
it should be written in English this way:

A bonus point will be awarded
EITHER for scoring 3 tries more than the opposition
OR for a loss by 7 points or less

Normal "OR" does NOT exclude BOTH options at the SAME TIME


I would say that this is incorrect, but not in your reading of the meaning of the word "or", which you are correct to suggest does not exclude "both" (although this is not the case in Computer Logic).

With the sentence written as above, only one bonus point can be won, which is implied in the wording

"A bonus point will be awarded..."

This suggests that there is a single bonus point on offer and it can be won by either method. Now, if one wanted to indicate that it was possible to win 2 bonus points by satisfying both criteria, one would write

"Bonus points will be awarded to teams scoring 4 or more tries or losing by 7 or fewer points."

The wording as quoted by Canalina seems to me to imply that only one point can be won under the French system.

grande wrote:Sounds to me like how League One works, with the "Super 8."


What's "League One"?

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby ultravioletu » Thu, 12 Jan 2017, 17:13

Figaro wrote:()...which you are correct to suggest does not exclude "both" (although this is not the case in Computer Logic).
I thought that XOR is for mutually exclusive alternatives. OR gets satisfied, also when both conditions are met.
:)

Coming to the original formulation, it doesn't say explicitly that ONLY a bonus point is awarded. Or that these points cannot be cummulated. So I assume that FLIDTA's scenario is possible.

Romanian Superliga used to award only one BP per game, but there was stated explictly that only the winning team gets the offensive point, and only if the other team did not already pick the losing one. As per http://www.rugby.ro/schimbare-de-regula ... 16161.html this is not the case anymore, starting with this season (2016-2017).

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby victorsra » Thu, 12 Jan 2017, 17:42

What's "League One"?


I believe it is Rugby League's 3rd division in England, that will have for the first time a Canadian club, the Toronto Wolfpack. It has 16 clubs, with also 2 Welsh sides.
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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby grande » Fri, 13 Jan 2017, 01:06

victorsra wrote:
What's "League One"?


I believe it is Rugby League's 3rd division in England, that will have for the first time a Canadian club, the Toronto Wolfpack. It has 16 clubs, with also 2 Welsh sides.


Yes, that's what I was referring to! Sorry, I had been reading about it and it was on my mind, should've expected not everyone is familiar with the English 3rd division of Rugby XIII. :)

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby sammo » Fri, 13 Jan 2017, 20:49


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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Canalina » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 07:24

Rugby Europe launched the new website http://www.rugbyeurope.eu

As visual pleasantness it's a bit better than before, but those giant photos and titles, like for a 4-years old audience, are somehow hurting. I suppose they are conceived for mobile devices but I still use mostly a pc and this new generation of mobile-friendly websites is quite inefficacious to read

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby antlat » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 08:16

Belarus have withdrawn from Development Conference.

14.05.2017 Macedonia vs Slovakia
17.05.2017 Slovakia vs Bulgaria
20.05.2017 Macedonia vs Slovakia

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 08:56

YES, it is for smartphone

There is http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/contact

May I ask ANYONE of posters
to approach them POLITELY about

1) CAN a loser get 2 points ?
2) How many BONUSES will the SLAM winner get?

I'm NOT a LUCKY guy this way -
never have GOT an answer from *blazer brigade*

@

REC MANUAL

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/sites/default ... 6-2017.pdf

>> page 14

@

HERE

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/reic-rugby-eu ... vs-germany

I LIKE the RANKINGS most: GEO 3rd - GER 7th

WHERE from RE got this?

@

ANOTHER RE-BRANDING

... ENC >> REC >> REIC

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... ampionship

@
Last edited by FLIDTA RISXVA on Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 09:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 09:16

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:
I LIKE the RANKINGS most: GEO 3rd - GER 7th

WHERE from RE got this?

@


Gold ;-) No idea what this numbers could mean at all. Not alphabetic, not European ranking, not ranking in the format, not 7s, not women, not whatever. Just strange.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 09:30

CHECKED: everywhere HOST is 3rd and GUEST is 7th - THEY have just FILLED IN

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Werner » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 11:41

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:I LIKE the RANKINGS most: GEO 3rd - GER 7th
WHERE from RE got this?
According to the rankings GER is 3rd. and GEO 2nd:
Scroll page down on http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/reic-rugby-europe-inter-championship
:lol: LOL & ROFL :lol:

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Canalina » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 11:51

antlat wrote:Belarus have withdrawn from Development Conference.

14.05.2017 Macedonia vs Slovakia
17.05.2017 Slovakia vs Bulgaria
20.05.2017 Macedonia vs Slovakia

Unfortunately it's Montenegro, not Macedonia
"Unfortunately" because when I read your post I hoped in a Macedonia's debut, not because I have something against Montenegro

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 12:28

Werner wrote:
FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:I LIKE the RANKINGS most: GEO 3rd - GER 7th
WHERE from RE got this?
According to the rankings GER is 3rd. and GEO 2nd:
Scroll page down on http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/reic-rugby-europe-inter-championship
:lol: LOL & ROFL :lol:


I wanted to say, that this is probably an alphabetical order - until I found Spain. Maybe they forgot about Spain and than just added them on position 6 :D
Also I fear about "eye cancer" as light blue and blue is not really the best way to see differences in the ranking (i.e. the other divisions). But apart from that I do like the new design.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby victorsra » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 12:35

of alphabetic order in French (Espagne) :lol:
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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 17 Jan 2017, 12:42

victorsra wrote:of alphabetic order in French (Espagne) :lol:

Then Germany Allemagne would be first. But you never know this French alphabets. Let's call them Zespagne for now :lol:

Edit: I feel stupid now. They simply called Spain, Spain but used the abbrev. ESP. The downsides of speaking more than just one foreign language :oops:
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 19 Jan 2017, 11:08

TONGUE IN CHEEK: No DGs any more in REIC?

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... mpionships

SCORES TRIES CONV PEN CARDS

Or they wiil be tabbed under PEN?

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Werner » Thu, 19 Jan 2017, 12:28

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:TONGUE IN CHEEK: No DGs any more in REIC?

http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... mpionships

SCORES TRIES CONV PEN CARDS

Or they wiil be tabbed under PEN?
DGs will be calculated under SCORES and "Grand Slam" will be tabbed under MATCHES/PTS.
2c.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Canalina » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 13:51

It seems that autumnal Turkey's matches will be not re-fixed and that the wins went to the Turkey's opponent
http://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions/ ... mpionships

After the african map, this is the Europe's continental championship map. The absent nations are Iceland, Belarus, the smallest countries and the south-eastern corner. If Turkey retired, we would have a large, uninterrupted strip of not-competing nations in the south-east: Macedonia, Albania, Greece, Turkey, Armenia and Azerbaijan
Image

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby victorsra » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 18:02

Belarus is in the Development Cup, isn't it?
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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Canalina » Fri, 20 Jan 2017, 23:33

They dropped out, see some posts above in this same page

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby antlat » Sat, 21 Jan 2017, 02:20

According to article on World Rugby, matches against Georgia will not count in World Cup Qualifying.

It also mentions that the Six Nations Championship will adopt the Grandslam Bonus point as well.

Are the Six Nations adopting bonus points??

Below are the interesting points of the article,

“We’ve adopted the French model for try bonus points whereby an extra point is awarded to teams who have scored at least three tries more than their opponent. We feel this will keep interest in games for longer than the traditional four tries scored method," he explained.
“However, we’ve maintained the seven points or less model for a losing bonus point instead of five as they have in France.
“We were also the first organisation to announce that we’d be implementing a Grand Slam bonus so that a team winning all five games would be the champions regardless of how many bonus points they earned. It was pleasing to see the Six Nations adopt this too, as it supports our thinking.”

As Georgia have already qualified for RWC 2019 courtesy of their third-place pool finish at England 2015, results against the Lelos – over this year and next – will not count towards qualification for the next tournament in Japan.

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby Hernan14 » Sun, 05 Feb 2017, 22:20

Canalina wrote:Usually, as far as I know, the "french" bonus-system doesn't aware the tries-bonus to the losing team: id est, if a team loses but scores three tries more than the opponent (very unlikely but not impossible) it doesn't take the bonus point.

The phrase in the document maybe it's not completely clear ("a bonus point will be awarded for scoring 3 tries more than the opposition OR for a loss by 7 points or less") but I suppose it means that a team may take just one of the two bonuses. Il logical language "or" means "one or the other, not both". In this case it would be sufficient a one point Grand Slam special bonus because a team not realizing the Grand Slam may conquer at maximum 21 pts


FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:
Il logical language "or" means "one or the other, not both".

NO WAY, Sir

What you mean
it should be written in English this way:

A bonus point will be awarded
EITHER for scoring 3 tries more than the opposition
OR for a loss by 7 points or less

Normal "OR" does NOT exclude BOTH options at the SAME TIME

After all I'm a mathematician and
learned those little LOGICAL things around 1980

@

And REC uses NOT a French system either -
its copyright clearly belongs to SANZAAR: S18 (SR) and 4N (TRC)
with SLAM bonus copied from SIX NATIONS =
long before they formally announced it on 30 NOV 2016

@

In France these days (since circa autumn 2014)

(1) defensive bonus is given for losing within FIVE points

(2) attacking bonus could be given to EITHER team =

before THE reform (~2014) it could be earned ONLY by the WINNER

@

I can't recall a poster who was an expert in French matters.
May be his nick was Hernan14 or something of this kind

French reform was explained by HIM quoting OFFICIAL French sources

@



Haha, I would not say that I am an expert in french matters, but yes, I was the one who commented, below is the conversation with the link to the official source and the current regulations say the same http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/s ... 6-2017.pdf

By the way Flid, looking where this conversation had been, I ran into a discussion in wikipedia, and I must tell you that it was not me!! I commented, but the guy who they argued with, was not me, I love the overall tables :)

Hernan14 wrote:
FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Four-try bonus point to be replaced by a bonus point that is awarded for finishing three or more tries ahead of your opponent (bonus point for losing by 7 or fewer points remains unchanged) ...

"By implementing this change, we expect to see more attacking and competitive rugby as teams will be asked to keep their foot down for the full 80 in order to claim the try-scoring bonus point, which we have seen used to great effect in France over the past few years. =

they do NOT realize that in France ONLY the WINNER gets +3t bonus.
The loser, and in the case of a draw - both teams, do NOT get this kind of bonus

Hence, S18 creates a new, unique system which is a hybrid of
"old S12 = global" and "initial French"
(as FRA have changed from 7 pts to 5 re compensation = losing bonus)


Sorry Flid, but according to the rules of the LNR a loser team CAN win the +3t bonus:

3) Principes de classement, de qualification et d’opposition
Article 330
3.2. Points "terrain" et points de bonus :
a) Il est attribué à chaque équipe, à l'issue d'un match de championnat, le nombre de points, dits
points "terrain" suivants :
- 4 points pour match gagné,
- 2 points pour match nul,
- 0 point pour match perdu,
- Moins 2 points pour chaque match perdu par disqualification ou par forfait (ou pour toute autre
raison administrative ou disciplinaire), et dans ce cas 5 points pour le club adverse.
b) Des points de bonus sont attribués en phase régulière du Championnat de France de 1ère et 2ème
division selon les principes suivants :
- 1 point de bonus pour une équipe ayant marqué au moins 3 essais de plus que son adversaire
lors d’une même rencontre
(1 bonus point for a team having scored at least three more tries than his opponent at the same match);
- 1 point de bonus pour une équipe ayant perdu par un écart de 5 points ou moins ;

http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/s ... 16_def.pdf

Maybe it's weird to happen, but nothing in the Top 14 rules prevents that the loser can win the 3t bonus, the first match that came to my head was Argentina 24 - 20 France in Nantes, when we win with 7 penalties of Mesón and 1 drop of Arbizu (France scored 3 tries -Galthié, JM Gonzalez & Philippe Sella-)... lovely memories of that match :)

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 06 Feb 2017, 06:08

So, a loser can get 2 pts !
But does RE know this?

+ If a person finds comp rules on web
and points exactly to needed articles within it,
I assume he is an EXPERT in those matters

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Re: 2016-17 Rugby Europe Divisions

Postby getienne » Tue, 14 Feb 2017, 14:32

What about the Rugby Europe site ?
Yes, the new match sheets have a nice design ... but no informations since sunday, except the lines-up.
Where are the scorers, the replacements, the cards ... ?
Unless I could not find them ?

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