Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Rugby World Cup Sevens

Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 05:48

It doesn't even make sense in terms of number of matches. There's only 28 games in total with this format as compared to the usual 45 despite there being 8 additional teams. Not only that but one group of teams is going to have a significant advantage in the second round having not played a match. There's also the issue of television schedule. You're talking about at least 3-4 hours less coverage, meaning the TV rights aren't going to be worth as much.

User avatar
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat, 19 Apr 2014, 14:41
National Flag:
NetherlandsNetherlands

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 10:45

I think the women's tournament will be in the same stadium so the number of matches will end up being similar.

Posts: 1430
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 17:54

All that sweat qualifying for 14 minutes at the world cup.

Beggars belief.

Posts: 2570
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby victorsra » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 18:06

I think I am the only one that is not pissed off with the format :lol:

WR is not idiotic to throw away $. Probably the RWC7s barely pays its own costs. It was probably this or nothing. They needed to save the competition from dying and needed a cheap but exciting format (exciting = people from the major countries will stop to see it... in other words, a competition with all matches with something in dispute... do or die).

Most rugby people don't even follow sevens and I doubt TVs would be that much, because sevens already has the Olympic tournament and an annual World Series. WR will not pay for more of the same. If they are suposed to pay the costs of a sevens competition they would first pay to have a better World Series, specially womens and mens second division (or to expand it for more teams).

For me it is clear they invented this to save the RWC7s from extinction and to try to make it a competition that gives them money.

All that sweat qualifying for 14 minutes at the world cup.


There isn't a single new Qualy tournament. All the Qualy is just the tournaments that already exist that are part of the World Sevens Series Qualy too. All teams that were running for th RWC7s would still be running at least to play the HK7s.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 07:20

victorsra wrote:I think I am the only one that is not pissed off with the format :lol:

WR is not idiotic to throw away $. Probably the RWC7s barely pays its own costs. It was probably this or nothing. They needed to save the competition from dying and needed a cheap but exciting format (exciting = people from the major countries will stop to see it... in other words, a competition with all matches with something in dispute... do or die).

Most rugby people don't even follow sevens and I doubt TVs would be that much, because sevens already has the Olympic tournament and an annual World Series. WR will not pay for more of the same. If they are suposed to pay the costs of a sevens competition they would first pay to have a better World Series, specially womens and mens second division (or to expand it for more teams).

For me it is clear they invented this to save the RWC7s from extinction and to try to make it a competition that gives them money.

All that sweat qualifying for 14 minutes at the world cup.


There isn't a single new Qualy tournament. All the Qualy is just the tournaments that already exist that are part of the World Sevens Series Qualy too. All teams that were running for th RWC7s would still be running at least to play the HK7s.



What costs most is flying those teams in. Once they are there, it doesn't matter if one day longer or shorter. But they will stay for all three days anyway. You can't just book new flights if you lose on day one. Way too expensive.
It also makes no sense money-wise with no guaranteed games of their national team to broadcasters. So they are indeed throwing away money.
It is simply utter bullshit. From every single perspective.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 2570
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby victorsra » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 12:02

For 15s, yes, flights are the heavy cost, but in a RWC7s you have a more complex operation that involves a 5 stars hotel, multiple training facilities with a busy schedule (as you have 40 teams together in the same city).... a world class sevens competition, that needs to be with WR's best standarts (because it is called "World Cup"), is not as simple as a mere test match.

I really want proper data to see how much WR spent in 2013 and how much they earned with the RWC7s.

Besides, the sequence Moscow-San Francisco for me shows WR sees the RWC7s as a competition to be organized in big global cities that wouldn't receive other major events. That's what sevens is about. The traditional countries don't want the costs for a competition that it not so relevant for them (as they have already better things for their public like 6N, TRC....). So probably is not a that big budget.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 13:15

victorsra I appreciate you row against the tide here.

But I think you missed my point. By cutting the games down to maybe one match per team at worst, they don't safe a single cent. Because the teams will be there for the three days (+probably a week before to prepare) no matter how many games they play in the end. They can't leave earlier (and if so it would cost even more), they won't come there later.

The cost for a 15s world cup is the time you have to keep (and pay) the teams together. That's not the case for a 7s world cup. Every Union should be able to afford that one week.
Facilities are a lot easier to get than you think for something like this. The Munich 7s i.e. will be across the road or a 5 minute walk from a huge amateur tournament which could easily provide all the practice facilities needed. There simply is no problem to accomodate 40 teams with 15 people in a city. That's just five 15s teams with their staff. How many are there for 7s? 12 + 3?

RWC7s probably just barely finances itself, BECAUSE TV-stations KNOW that their national team will play at least 5 matches each tournament and at most 6 games.
No matter if they are good or the worst team. Three group games, quarters, semis, finals. You simply don't buy the tv rights to a World Cup for the same money, if your team could be out after 1 or 2 games.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 2570
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby victorsra » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 13:48

RL, they will save money because of one important thing: with the old format they would need a second stadium! Don't forget this. In Moscow 2013 there were 2 stadiums (a smaller Gorodok stadium was used for more than half of the womens matches (2 rounds in groups phase + Bowl... and if I am not wrong Plate too... just the 3rd womens grouo round + Cup were at the main Luzhniki stadium)... it was a simple operation there because it was a small stadium close to the Luzhniki, located in the same park. I was there and you could go by walk.

In SF there isn't a second stadium close to the AT&T Park. They were planning to use a MLS stadium in San Jose milles away (and don't forget the heavy traffic between SF and SJ). Supporters would have to chose between both stadiums. And the organization would need to be totaly split between two venues.

24 men teams + 16 women teams with groups phase need 2 stadiums.

You simply don't buy the tv rights to a World Cup for the same money, if your team could be out after 1 or 2 games.


How was in 2013 the TV deal? How many countries bought it and how much they payed? In 2013 if I am not wrong in Brazil we got it for free the rights (and now WR has the online streaming more advanced... they won't give it for free or for very few money). Again, WR is not idiot about TV rights (and online broadcast sponsorship). They know the risks, I am pretty sure.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 14:00

A note: each team is guaranteed to play two matches. Preliminary stage losers advance to the "Bowl" quarter-finals.

Posts: 892
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 13:53
National Flag:
FranceFrance

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby olivier » Mon, 24 Jul 2017, 14:13

NaBUru38 wrote:A note: each team is guaranteed to play two matches. Preliminary stage losers advance to the "Bowl" quarter-finals.

Even three with placement matches. This new format is great. No more games for nothing. Knock-out games are the core of sport.

Posts: 1302
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 25 Jul 2017, 07:22

victorsra wrote:RL, they will save money because of one important thing: with the old format they would need a second stadium! Don't forget this. In Moscow 2013 there were 2 stadiums (a smaller Gorodok stadium was used for more than half of the womens matches (2 rounds in groups phase + Bowl... and if I am not wrong Plate too... just the 3rd womens grouo round + Cup were at the main Luzhniki stadium)... it was a simple operation there because it was a small stadium close to the Luzhniki, located in the same park. I was there and you could go by walk.


Fair enough this is indeed a good argument. Wasn't aware of it. One could argue that nearly every non-just-soccer stadium has a smaller pitch close to it which could be set up for low cost to suit women's group games. But your argument still stands, especially as SF apparently doesn't have one close.

I still hate the format though, but it makes more sense now :D
And that the 13th and the 14th best Sevens team of the world had no chance to qualify (HK 7s 2017 finalists Spain&Germany) if not beating a higher ranked side.
But that's another thing.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 367
Joined: Tue, 14 Apr 2015, 19:19
National Flag:
GeorgiaGeorgia

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby tryman » Fri, 28 Jul 2017, 21:12

With a year to go World Rugby have announced that 40,000 tickets have already been sold for the Sevens World Cup... I can hardly believe it!

Posts: 9
Joined: Thu, 27 Jul 2017, 21:56
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby Graf_von_Tirol » Fri, 28 Jul 2017, 23:39

In the form of more than 13,000 three-day passes. Apparently the General Admission passes for the View Level seats are all sold out, and the cheapest option available now are the View Level Reserved passes which go for $60 more. Still thinking about it.

Posts: 88
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 19:55
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby The Do » Sat, 29 Jul 2017, 03:13

With 24 teams, I thought a way they could run a World Cup would by making it a bigger affair than the usual World Series' legs. Why not make it a 3 or 4 day event with 4 pools of 6 teams so every team has 5 games in the pools stages. The bowl, plate and cup comps run as normal. This way you are testing the strength of the squads and not necessarily the starting VII. You could even allow an extra couple of players per squad due to the extra games.

Posts: 359
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 29 Jul 2017, 04:34

The Do wrote:With 24 teams, I thought a way they could run a World Cup would by making it a bigger affair than the usual World Series' legs. Why not make it a 3 or 4 day event with 4 pools of 6 teams so every team has 5 games in the pools stages. The bowl, plate and cup comps run as normal. This way you are testing the strength of the squads and not necessarily the starting VII. You could even allow an extra couple of players per squad due to the extra games.


Because World Rugby sucks. Talk about a PITA.

User avatar
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby Canalina » Mon, 11 Sep 2017, 03:52


User avatar
Posts: 2548
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby Canalina » Mon, 11 Sep 2017, 03:58

...and women's placements
Image

Men's remaining qualifying tournaments (in caps lock the already qualified nations)
Africa 1/2: 7 October. Uganda, KENYA, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Madagascar, Tunisia, Senegal, Botswana, Nigeria, Morocco
Asia 1/2: 16 October. Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea, Sri Lanka, China, Malaysia, Singapore, Taipei
North America 1: 12 November. Mexico, Cayman, Bermuda, Bahamas, Jamaica, T&Caicos, British Virgin, StLucia, StVincent, Barbados, T&Tobago, Guyana, Curacao
Oceania 1/2: 30 November. FIJI, America Samoa, Cook, Nauru, New Caledonia, NEW ZEALAND, Papua Guinea, SAMOA, Solomon, Tahiti, Tonga
South America 1/2: to be confirmed. To be confirmed

Women's qualifying tournaments
Africa 1: 17 September. South Africa, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Tunisia, Uganda, Namibia, Madagascar, Senegal
Asia 1/2: 16 October. Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand, Singapore, Uzbekistan, Guam, South Korea, Sri Lanka
North America 1: 12 November. Mexico, Bermuda, Bahamas, Cayman, Jamaica, T&Caicos, StLucia, StVincents, Barbados, T&Tobago, Guyana, Curacao
South America 1: 12 November. Argentina, Brasil, Chile, Colombia, Paraguay, Perú, Venezuela y Uruguay
Oceania 1: 30 November. FIJI, Cook, NEW ZEALAND, Papua Guinea, Samoa, Tonga

and the historical medal tally
New Zealand 3 2 1
Fiji 2 - 3
Australia 1 2 1
England 1 1 1
Wales 1 - -
Argentina 1 1
South Africa - 1 1
Canada - 1 -
Samoa - - 2
Usa - - 2
Ireland - - 1
Kenya - - 1

Oceania 6 4 7
Europe 2 1 2
Africa - 1 2
North America - 1 2
South America - 1 1
Asia - - -

A total of 40 nations qualified as far as now for at least one of the 7s World Cup editions. Brazil, China, Thailand and Uganda qualified with women but not with men

Previous

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Yahoo [Bot] and 8 guests