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Rugby World Cup Sevens

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Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Sep 2016, 14:59

World Rugby has confirmed today the qualifying system for the 2018 Rugby World Cup Sevens, to be played at the AT&T Park, in San Francisco. So nothing changed in the competition. The men's tournament will have 24 teams.

Already Qualified: New Zealand, England, Fiji, South Africa, Wales, Austrália, France, Kenya (8 best teams of 2013) and USA (host);

2016-17 World Series: 4 spots (between Argentina, Samoa, Scotland, Canada, Russia and Japan);

South America (2017-18): 2 spots

North America (2017-18): 1 spot

Europe (2017-18): 2 spots

Oceania (2017-18): 2 spots

Africa (2017-18): 2 spots

Asia (2017-18): 2 spots

The limit to confirm the teams qualified is April 2018.
Last edited by victorsra on Sat, 01 Jul 2017, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby tryman » Wed, 14 Sep 2016, 21:25

A lot of reports from World Rugby today on the sevens World Cup. They launched a special website for the SWC and announced tickets will be on sale next year.

I think 24 teams is the right amount, anymore and it wouldn't be competitive.

I'm a little unsure of the qualifying process. Does the above mean Europe can only qualify another two teams? That means it will be ultra competitive between Ireland, Russia, Germany and Spain. I don't think Oceania deserve a further two spots with Fiji qualified, maybe I'm reading that wrong.

Two years away but I'm seriously tempted to visit San Fran for this.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Sep 2016, 21:29

The regional qualifiers will happen AFTER the definition of the teams qualified from the Sevens World Series.

For me the Rugby World Cup Sevens in this format is meaningless. It is just an expanded sevens series tournament. It is good for teams with no space in the sevens series, yes, but in 2013 it failed to attract world attention. It needs a new approach.
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby tryman » Wed, 14 Sep 2016, 21:39

I think it didn't help by having the tournament in an empty stadium in Russia where no one gave a damn about the sport.

Even in the last two years the World Series is getting more media attention and crowds are growing, that's not to mention the attention it got from the Olympics. This will all help for the 2018 SWC to be the biggest yet, plus it should be very competitive. San Fran is a seriously attractive place to visit too.

Brazil should stand a good chance of qualifying ahead of Uruguay given the attention they got before the Olympics. Hong Kong will be the second Asian team. South Africa & Kenya are the African qualifiers. I think this will be a very interesting WC.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Sep 2016, 22:14

Yes, I want to go :D I was in Moscow in 2013 cheering for Brazilian women's team. Your are right about Russian lack of interest about te tournament, but there was also a huge schedueling error: it was in the middle of the Lions Tour (if I am not wrong it was in the Test 2 weekend). Rugby media was giving a s*t for the tournament.

Now there won't be the Lions tour, but there is the FIFA World Cup. World Rugby need to avoid june/early july. This tournament must be in late july/early August (that weekend after Super Rugby final and before The Rugby Championship start is perfect for me, and avoids NFL too in US). Let's see, that's a baseball stadium probably with schedule issues.

I just wanted to see the Rugby World Cup Sevens more like an World Cup and less like a Sevens Series tournament. I have posted before about it. It would be nice to have the groups split in 3 or 4 cities (less matches in each stadium, beter for the public), with 2 weekends of matches maybe (1st phase in the first, Finals in the second). A different model. A mini-WC (just like soccer has its Confederations Cup).
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 00:04

victorsra wrote: This tournament must be in late july/early August - that weekend after Super Rugby final and before The Rugby Championship start is perfect for me, and avoids NFL too in US


Exactly. There's the Women's Field Hockey World Cup in late July in England, several European championships in early August, and the Asian Games in late August. So a weekend tournament in the United States is no problem.

victorsra wrote: that's a baseball stadium probably with schedule issues


Not at all. MLB teams play 80 home games from April to September. It's very easy to schedule a five-day road trip.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby Canalina » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 05:56

Nice…
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby nick511 » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 09:00

My only issue with the structure of this tourny, is I think they should have a Round of 16 instead of having the group winners and two best runner-ups qualifying for the quarter-finals. Two many teams are out of the running after the pool stage. And at least it would make it slightly more different to a SWS event.

But I doubt World Rugby will change it. Just like they will probably only get a 2nd tier tour going post-2018.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 10:52

My big problem with this is the qualifying structure.
The two additional places for Europe are a joke. We already know that two 6 Nations/ World Series/ Olympic teams will not be part of this tournament and even worse a lot of emerging nations like Germany, Georgia, Belgium or even Portugal won't qualify.

The big growth chances are in Europe but they don't use them. It is nice to have an exotic nation like PNG or the Cayman Island there, but we need to grow the sport. Padding each other on the shoulder and saying: "oh we are so global, that even the Cayman Islands are there" won't help. Growin' the game doesn't work by simply adding nations.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 11:11

RugbyLiebe wrote:My big problem with this is the qualifying structure.
The two additional places for Europe are a joke. We already know that two 6 Nations/ World Series/ Olympic teams will not be part of this tournament and even worse a lot of emerging nations like Germany, Georgia, Belgium or even Portugal won't qualify.

The big growth chances are in Europe but they don't use them. It is nice to have an exotic nation like PNG or the Cayman Island there, but we need to grow the sport. Padding each other on the shoulder and saying: "oh we are so global, that even the Cayman Islands are there" won't help. Growin' the game doesn't work by simply adding nations.


I also can't believe that WR are so amateur they missed listing Kenya as an automatic qualifier in their press release and shocked that no one on here even caught such a basic error. Africa gets two qualifiers as well meaning FOUR teams from that continent. I definitely think they should only have one qualifier. Also FORU should also have just one qualifier given NZ, Fiji & Australia are automatic qualifiers. Despite being the host confederation Americas North only get one spot. While Cayman Is might be exotic, there are countries within the Caribbean area that have the raw athlete potential to be strong 7s nations like Jamaica or T&T etc and IMO WR should be doing their best to bring that potential to reality. The other freed up spot should definitely go to Europe. I am quite disappointed with the qualification make up.

Nice logo though and yes San Fran is great!

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 11:40

RugbyLiebe wrote:My big problem with this is the qualifying structure.
The two additional places for Europe are a joke. We already know that two 6 Nations/ World Series/ Olympic teams will not be part of this tournament and even worse a lot of emerging nations like Germany, Georgia, Belgium or even Portugal won't qualify.

The big growth chances are in Europe but they don't use them. It is nice to have an exotic nation like PNG or the Cayman Island there, but we need to grow the sport. Padding each other on the shoulder and saying: "oh we are so global, that even the Cayman Islands are there" won't help. Growin' the game doesn't work by simply adding nations.

Well, we already saw that when they decided to give only one direct qualifying berth to Europe for 2019 RWC. Six Nations are considered to be European to stop the growth in the rest of Europe but aren't European enough to contribute to it (except for France and from time to time Scotland and Ireland). And yes, for 2019 RWC it is true that Russia, Spain or Germany may not be more deserving of a direct qualifying berth than Tonga, but in the case of 7s... Come on.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 11:54

YamahaKiwi wrote: Despite being the host confederation Americas North only get one spot. While Cayman Is might be exotic, there are countries within the Caribbean area that have the raw athlete potential to be strong 7s nations like Jamaica or T&T etc and IMO WR should be doing their best to bring that potential to reality. The other freed up spot should definitely go to Europe. I am quite disappointed with the qualification make up.


That's interesting I would have said, that NA is actually the only reasonable spot. USA+Canada+ qualifier (Just took the Cayman Islands as they were at the HK qualifier 2016).

Africa is allright with two spots. You have Zimbabwe, Morocco (the beat Tonga in HK 2016) and some others at a level that would earn them to be there.
Asia is a bit over the top if Japan makes in the World Series, but okay.

South America is a joke and if at all they should have two spots together with NA. But at least there is some growth to be fostered in Brazil and Uruguay and a fair chance of Argentina not making it directly.

Oceania is really unbelievable as there's probably just Tonga left after the World Series spot. So Tonga, PNG and some small islands play for two spots.

Meanwhile in Europe Russia, Spain, Germany, Ireland, Portugal, Belgium, Italy, Georgia and maybe Poland as big surprise will battle it out for two places. With all but probably Poland having great chances to both qualify and be competitive.
Russia, Spain, Germany and Ireland have all beaten World Series teams this year. Portugal was a world series team, Belgium is generally on the rise and you don't have to say a word about the probably "weakest" teams Italy and Georgia.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 12:09, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby YamahaKiwi » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 12:05

Sorry I forgot that there's the SWS places as well though taking out the eight auto qualifiers that still leaves 6 other SWS core teams and with Canada currently struggling with their programme it's not a given they'd qualify through that route - they may eat up that lone Americas North qualifying spot.

Russia are still in the series so they could potentially get a place through SWS efforts which would at least take one the Euro teams out of the regional qualifying picture but Europe has always been the most competitive region even a couple of RWC7s back.

If Japan got through via the SWS then yes Asia would have too many places for my liking but if they don't then it's only them+one other which is ok from the regional qualifiers. I can see your point about FORU but all members must have the chance to qualify. Maybe if Samoa did earn a spot through the SWS, there could be a combined FORU-ARFU tournament where the top Asian country qualified if Japan didn't make it through from the SWS, and then the next best Asian or PI team would also qualify. If Japan as well as Samoa had qualified through the SWS, then the tournament could be a purely 2nd chance one with say the best 3 teams from each federation playing and the winner only qualifying. That would mean both Feds would have 0.5 of a qualifying spot. Using the SWS actually muddies the qualifying waters a bit. While WR wanted to obviously add some extra spice and motivation to the SWS, I think they should be doing the qualifying straight off the regional champs only. That would make it much simpler and easier to correctly apportion qualifying spots.

Going by last season the top 4 outside the pre-qualified teams and 2018 hosts USA were ARG, SAM, SCO, and CAN.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 12:08

Oh I just realized, that Europe gets 7 spots at the most.

England, Wales, France, Scotland, Russia, +2

So at least 1 team less than in the 15s world cup with 4 more teams involved. As Russia was the weakest team not being relegated in the World Series 2016 it might end with 6 teams.

For a continent representing 45% of all playing numbers worldwide (source: http://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws. ... umbers.jpg). A max of 29% of the teams or probably just 25% is simply a joke and has nothing to do with fair distribution.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby victorsra » Fri, 16 Sep 2016, 13:42

PNG performed really well in HK 2015. South America has 3 competitive teams for 2 places. Chile is performing very well.in sevens The joke are not the teams, but maybe the ratio teams/spots.

Playing numbers are always mambo jambo because there is no unified criterea and no independent reaearch. Europe has England's and France's numbers.

Sincerily, I will repeat what I said about the XVs world cup. It is useless to discuss which continent deserves more. Give 1 spot to each one and the rest of the spots should be defined in a global repechage.
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 19 Sep 2016, 07:21

victorsra wrote:PNG performed really well in HK 2015. South America has 3 competitive teams for 2 places. Chile is performing very well.in sevens The joke are not the teams, but maybe the ratio teams/spots.

Playing numbers are always mambo jambo because there is no unified criterea and no independent reaearch. Europe has England's and France's numbers.

Sincerily, I will repeat what I said about the XVs world cup. It is useless to discuss which continent deserves more. Give 1 spot to each one and the rest of the spots should be defined in a global repechage.


PNG finished last in the weakest group (to argue with facts, only group with no team in the semi-finals). I think you are right that Chile is as competitive as Brazil is. I think both teams could have a hard time finishing in the top8 of the European Grand Prix Series (Portugal i.e. finished 9th this year).

I do understand it is hard to find a line which teams should be there. But give the continent with the most realistic short-time growth options (outside of already established tier2 nations) at a 24-team-7s-world-cup even less spots than at a 20-team-XV-world-cup is really really hard to understand.

Maybe there is a smart strategy behind it, but I can just not see it tbh.
Slowly I start to think that the repechage might actually be the only way, too. Even if it does mean, that is way easier for a NA or SA team to qualify than for a European team. But at least there is a chance and not a joke like this.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 24 Sep 2016, 14:44

RugbyLiebe wrote: South America is a joke and if at all they should have two spots together with NA.
But at least there is some growth to be fostered in Brazil and Uruguay.

Russia, Spain, Germany and Ireland have all beaten World Series teams this year. Portugal was a world series team


Russia and Portugal have played regularly at the World Series.
Spain and Germany have done well at Hong Kong and Olympic qualifiers.
But they can enter several competitive tournaments in Europe.

Instead, South America only has three tournaments (Punta del Este, Viña del Mar and Mar del Plata).
The South American Sevens wasn't played in 2016.
How do you expect Uruguay and Chile to perform well at the Hong Kong qualifier with so little practice?

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 24 Sep 2016, 14:47

nick511 wrote:My only issue with the structure of this tourny, is I think they should have a Round of 16 instead of having the group winners and two best runner-ups qualifying for the quarter-finals. Two many teams are out of the running after the pool stage. And at least it would make it slightly more different to a SWS event.


I wouldn't like 3rd placed teams to advance to round of 16.

Instead, I'd do a 12-team Cup playoffs: the top 4 teams advance to quarter-finals, and the other 8 teams enter a playoff round.

So the two two teams play the Cup, and the other 12 teams play Plate.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 24 Sep 2016, 14:53

victorsra wrote: It is useless to discuss which continent deserves more. Give 1 spot to each one and the rest of the spots should be defined in a global repechage.


I support reasonable continental quotas, but I would also like the World Cup Sevens to have a world repechage, like the Olympics.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 27 Sep 2016, 09:15

NaBUru38 wrote:But they can enter several competitive tournaments in Europe.

Instead, South America only has three tournaments (Punta del Este, Viña del Mar and Mar del Plata).
The South American Sevens wasn't played in 2016.
How do you expect Uruguay and Chile to perform well at the Hong Kong qualifier with so little practice?


Please have a look at tournament dates, before you make up a case. The GPS series was played in June and July 2015. The repechage tournament for the Olympic repechage tournament was played on July 18-19. The HongKong7s was in April 2016. So no official competitive tournaments for European teams for 9 months.

The South American 7s championship, Viña del Mar and Mar del Plata were in January 2016, Punta del Este in December 2015, . So the officially preparation was actually better for SA teams.
So please, if you bring up a true argument (better competition) don't diminish it with wrong facts.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 12:33, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby Muzzy » Wed, 28 Sep 2016, 11:05

Now that Sevens has the Olympics, I don't see the point of having a Sevens world cup. Its just another tournament, whats the point of calling it a world cup. Isn't it enough to have a world series and an Olympics every 5 years.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 14:46

The Olympic tournament has only 12 teams. The World Cup features 24/16 teams.

Plus World Rugby gets the revenue.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens 2018

Postby CraigChalmers » Sat, 01 Oct 2016, 18:47

Muzzy wrote:Now that Sevens has the Olympics, I don't see the point of having a Sevens world cup. Its just another tournament, whats the point of calling it a world cup. Isn't it enough to have a world series and an Olympics every 5 years.


World Series only affords 15 teams or regional champions (behind those on the World Series) the chance to take part - ie. around 20 teams per season. That format makes for a decent competition, but it does very little to help the game in countries outside the world series. (OK, they also have the WS qualifier in Hong Kong, but that is as close as many sides get to the big boys; playing on the same pitch, but not getting to play against them.

By contrast, I reckon 58 mens sides entered the 2009 RWC Sevens (I would expect that number to be much bigger in 2018). each with the chance at least to qualify, and many getting to play relatively big sides in the qualifiers. And whilst I have no data, I would expect that might be more true of the womens competition?

The RWC 7's also offers countries who aren't on the World Series the chance to host a major rugby event (Russia & Argentina have both done so - whilst there are plenty of others who could do in the future)




Having said that, I do think more could be done with the format to make set it apart from other events. For example, the whole concept of the RWC 7's is that it's a one off event where anything can happen (how many sides have won world series events recently? And how many of them do we think could win the world series overall?), so why allow qualifying to be based on overall world series standings after 10 stops?

I would give only the hosts automatic qualification, and make everybody else qualify. Could look something like (I have used similar allocation of places to 2018, but given Oceania's 5th place to Europe to make things easier):

Europe:
2 tournaments of 16 teams (32), 1-3 in each qualify
4 teams to repechage

South America:
Single qualifying tournament (up to 16, dependant on entrants), finalists qualify
2 teams to repechage

North America:
As per South America
2 teams to repechage

Oceania:
Single qualifying tournament, semi-finalists to qualify
2 teams to repechage

Africa:
2 tournament if enough entrants can be found [2 teams to repechage]
3 teams to repechage

Asia:
Single qualifying tournament, finalists to qualify
3 teams to repechage

USA qualify as hosts, leaving 3 repechage places. To be decided by a 16 team tournament

I would then make seeding for the final tournament based solely on performances in the qualifying tournaments, to ensure teams have to take them seriously even after securing qualification. (exactly how I’m not sure, but sure it can be done)

Under that format, if you had enough countries entering in the right places, you could have 128 teams starting the world cup knowing they could, in theory, win the world cup in just 2 weekends and 12 matches (with only the hosts being able to do it in fewer). And more importantly, every single one of them would get to play in a world cup event alongside a current core side. Yes, it won't be nearly as competitive as the world series until later in the tournament, but it could do far more to grow the game.

Regional qualifiers would be awarded to one of the teams taking part, with a short bidding process but a preference for countries who don’t host SWS events to spread the game. The Women’s event would have a similar qualifying format (with the allocation of places altered), with the qualifiers held at the same venues as per the finals tournament. Repechage awarded either to a team involved, to a neutral or pre-determined venue, or perhaps awarded with the finals.

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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby victorsra » Sat, 01 Jul 2017, 13:43

I've just found that Hong Kong wants to host again the Rugby World Cup Sevens in 2022 https://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Glo ... evens.aspx

Any rumours about who else would try to host it?

I remember Munich's bid to host a Sevens World Series leg and it would be great a RWC7 there in October.
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Re: Rugby World Cup Sevens

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 01 Jul 2017, 20:09

Well the Octoberfest 7s in Munich who start this year are financed afaik for 4 years (Oktoberfest is between two last weekends in September and the first weekend in october btw.)

Would be great to have a world cup here.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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