Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Rugby in Oceania

Posts: 496
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 10:50

GRR and MLR will provide opportunities for Pacific Islands rugby players, as stated. Also SLAR. But also a Japanese professional league could also be important to Pacific Islands players, and also to the national teams of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa. Japan has an interest in their Pacific Nations Cup opponents having competitive teams. I think it would be fantastic if the best Pacific Islands players were playing professionally in Japan. The Japanese rugby fans could see their club's star players playing against their national team.

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 20:20

Edgar wrote:Leo said part of his group’s job is to change the perceptions of Pacific Islanders, particularly so in France, as people in addition to being players.
“Those perceptions around us being crazy drinkers, going away on holiday and not coming back, coming back two weeks late, and just not being faithful around the terms of our contracts, is just unwanted negativity around the whole contractual process,” Leo said.
“We need to disseminate the message to our members – there’s a generation relying on us
“Contracts aren’t just a given over here now. We really need, particularly our high-profile players, to really lead by example.
“We want to see Pacific Islanders coming to Europe and establishing lives here, and earning good money to send back to their families for a long time.”

https://www.samoaobserver.ws/category/s ... E3pRgkdXjQ


This is very important, of course. Players must remember they are very much in the public eye in Europe with an eager press ready and waiting for any scandal they can get a hold of. They are representing their home nations and their future stars as much as themselves.

Meanwhile, good luck to this guy:

Rugby: Former Hurricanes star Michael Fatialofa remains in hospital after neck injury https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/a ... d=12298205

User avatar
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 11:27
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 07 Jan 2020, 06:09

Chester-Donnelly wrote:GRR and MLR will provide opportunities for Pacific Islands rugby players, as stated. Also SLAR. But also a Japanese professional league could also be important to Pacific Islands players, and also to the national teams of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa. Japan has an interest in their Pacific Nations Cup opponents having competitive teams. I think it would be fantastic if the best Pacific Islands players were playing professionally in Japan. The Japanese rugby fans could see their club's star players playing against their national team.


Also a good opportunity for the Australian's to review their foreign player restrictions for NRC and Super Rugby teams.

Posts: 496
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 07 Jan 2020, 07:33

ihateblazers wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:GRR and MLR will provide opportunities for Pacific Islands rugby players, as stated. Also SLAR. But also a Japanese professional league could also be important to Pacific Islands players, and also to the national teams of Fiji, Tonga and Samoa. Japan has an interest in their Pacific Nations Cup opponents having competitive teams. I think it would be fantastic if the best Pacific Islands players were playing professionally in Japan. The Japanese rugby fans could see their club's star players playing against their national team.


Also a good opportunity for the Australian's to review their foreign player restrictions for NRC and Super Rugby teams.


With GRR, and the shortening of the Super Rugby season, Australia has an opportunity to make the NRC a really interesting competition. Premier division: 4 Super Rugby teams, Western Force, Fijian Latui, Samoa, and South China Tigers. With division 1 and division 2 below that.

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Wed, 08 Jan 2020, 20:51

Every time I read about this competition I wonder why they don't throw Hong Kong and South Korea in to help develop Asia's perennial second and third best teams. Currently it involves Japan Juniors and the B teams (locally-based selections) of the Pacific Islands. Kudos to World Rugby for funding it. But, really, why is the focus solely on one team in Asia, when 60% of the world's population lives over there? (I can see it through my window).

& Remember, Hong Kong is China - politically, if not rugby-wise - so technically you'd have the most populous nation in the world involved. South Korea's 52 million is worth investing in too. Obviously Japan should be the priority, but with World Cup expansion on the horizon (apparently) World Rugby really needs to start investing in a few more Asian nations. & both HK & SK should prove competitive in this series provided they send their test teams.

Next stop, PNC 2030s :D

Fun fact: In the last few years of the previous century Hong Kong defeated the US 4 times (including a 49-6 thrashing), Japan 3 time (twice by around 20 points) and Canada - who were still rated one of the top dozen teams in the world :shock:

Seventeen-year-old Janeiro Wakeham has been named in the Swire Shipping Fiji Warriors extended squad.

World Rugby Pacific Challenge Fixtures:

Round 1: 6th March 2020 – ANZ Stadium, Suva
2.30pm Junior Japan V Tonga A
5pm Fiji Warriors V Samoa A
Round 2: 10th March 2020 – ANZ Stadium, Suva
2.30pm Samoa A V Junior Japan
5pm Fiji Warriors V Tonga A
Round 3: 14th March 2020 – ANZ Stadium, Suva
1pm Tonga A V Samoa A
3.30pm Fiji Warriors V Junior Japan

https://www.fbcnews.com.fj/sports/rugby ... Kej7bb1cgQ

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Wed, 08 Jan 2020, 22:31

with World Cup expansion on the horizon (apparently) World Rugby really needs to start investing in a few more Asian nations. & both HK & SK should prove competitive in this series provided they send their test teams.


What, you mean it isn’t Sri Lanka that Asian rugby should be focusing on? It’s almost like your argument on the other thread about promoting unions based on player numbers and local interest had some ulterior motive. We know 90+% of HK’s population don’t give a shit about rugby despite hosting a flagship event for decades.

Posts: 496
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 08 Jan 2020, 23:20

4N wrote:
with World Cup expansion on the horizon (apparently) World Rugby really needs to start investing in a few more Asian nations. & both HK & SK should prove competitive in this series provided they send their test teams.


What, you mean it isn’t Sri Lanka that Asian rugby should be focusing on? It’s almost like your argument on the other thread about promoting unions based on player numbers and local interest had some ulterior motive. We know 90+% of HK’s population don’t give a shit about rugby despite hosting a flagship event for decades.


Equivalent countries in Asia and Africa would be:
Sri Lanka is like Madagascar. Rugby is very popular. Player numbers are high and rugby matches attract large crowds. These island nations are not near to other rugby playing countries. Physically the people are small. The teams are quite low ranking.
Hong Kong is like Namibia. Both are the second best team in their continent, but are a long way behind the best teams. Both have a long rugby tradition, but mostly within a minority population and not within the native population.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 00:25

I don’t know if you ever had the chance to watch highlights of Madagascar’s 57-54 win over Namibia a few years ago but it was one of the craziest things I have seen in rugby. Their players have incredible tenacity. Rugby is a sport for all there especially the poor so it makes sense that they have some tough guys. They don’t really have an analogous nation in Asian rugby.

Schools rugby is the main thing in SL and they are all elite schools as far as I can tell. They usually have some size btw. Maybe not height but definitely weight.

Spoiler:
Image

Posts: 496
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 05:29

4N wrote:I don’t know if you ever had the chance to watch highlights of Madagascar’s 57-54 win over Namibia a few years ago but it was one of the craziest things I have seen in rugby. Their players have incredible tenacity. Rugby is a sport for all there especially the poor so it makes sense that they have some tough guys. They don’t really have an analogous nation in Asian rugby.

Schools rugby is the main thing in SL and they are all elite schools as far as I can tell. They usually have some size btw. Maybe not height but definitely weight.

Spoiler:
Image


I didn't see that game but I have watched some Madagascan rugby. Those guys can play. But unless a team has a couple of 6'8" locks they don't stand a chance in international rugby. Sri Lanka have a bit more money. They can probably draft in some tall Fijians, although residency rule changes makes that less of an option. Failing that there are bound to be plenty of English rugby players with a Sri Lankan granny.

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 08:57

Yes, not much of a comparison, I'm afraid. Kenya and Uganda have run up some huge scores against North African opposition in recent years, including a century or two, while Sri Lanka backed out of an Asian promotion-relegation match with Hong Kong a few years ago for fear of being out of their depth.

In saying that, I do think Sri Lanka warrants more attention from World Rugby due to its substantial player numbers and semi-professional domestic scene, and have personally championed their cause for inclusion in GRR, a club competition in which they'd be able to beef up with imports.

Throwing the national team in with Fiji, Samoa and Tonga's B sides is another matter entirely. Obviously they're not remotely at that level, whereas Hong Kong and Korea certainly are, and have been for decades. Already pointed out in my previous post, the former were involved in PNC in the 1990s and recorded a string of astounding upsets against Japan and the North Americans (albeit in the days of lax eligibility laws).

Highlights of Makis' 57-54 win over Namibia in extra time in front of 40K fans in Antananarivo in 2012. PM was on hand to give a halftime pep talk. No 10 is Jose Rakoto, world class player who had a stint in France: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaiEe-gNK-A

Incidentally, Madagascar beat Sri Lanka 17-12 the following year in Colombo, on their way to winning the Serendib Cup by also defeating Poland (25-21).

Meanwhile, Samoa may want to turn their attention to Classic rugby, the way things are going . . .

The average age across Manu Samoa and homegrown Samoan players in those four elite competitions is over 29 and 9 months (27 and a half in Super Rugby, over 28 in the Premiership, nearly 32 in Top 14 and nearly 31 in Pro 14).

https://www.samoaobserver.ws/category/sport/55759

Posts: 3287
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 10:51

Edgar wrote:
The average age across Manu Samoa and homegrown Samoan players in those four elite competitions is over 29 and 9 months (27 and a half in Super Rugby, over 28 in the Premiership, nearly 32 in Top 14 and nearly 31 in Pro 14).

https://www.samoaobserver.ws/category/sport/55759


From the same source: "Samoa also only took three homegrown players to the World Cup (Melani Matavao, Logovi’i Mulipola and Alapati Leiua), the lowest number in any squad in the history of the competition."

Would love to read 4N's take on this. Can this trend be reversed by gaining popularity by using heritage players (maybe even some who chose to play for another nation first) or could using so many expats actually be a reason why local talent gets less and less chances (they define homegrown as born and rugby raised until their teens, so scholarship guys would still be homegrown)?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 11:55

Would love to read 4N's take on this. Can this trend be reversed by gaining popularity by using heritage players (maybe even some who chose to play for another nation first) or could using so many expats actually be a reason why local talent gets less and less chances (they define homegrown as born and rugby raised until their teens, so scholarship guys would still be homegrown)?


It’s probably because Samoa has one of the highest emigration rates in the world and there are now more Samoans living outside of the country than in it, including many in the world’s best rugby nursery, NZ.

Just a guess.

Posts: 3287
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 12:06

4N wrote:
Would love to read 4N's take on this. Can this trend be reversed by gaining popularity by using heritage players (maybe even some who chose to play for another nation first) or could using so many expats actually be a reason why local talent gets less and less chances (they define homegrown as born and rugby raised until their teens, so scholarship guys would still be homegrown)?


It’s probably because Samoa has one of the highest emigration rates in the world and there are now more Samoans living outside of the country than in it, including many in the world’s best rugby nursery, NZ.

Just a guess.


Definitely.
The question is, what could this mean long-term? Will they stay "Samoans" by nationality or only by cultural background? I mean NZ seems like an open country which makes it easy for people to feel being Kiwi. The basic concept of national teams (as it is now) worldwide is that the inhabitants of a nation represent it. Do you think that if the rules of representation would be tightened to parents, that i.e. Samoa will gain problems?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 12:07

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
4N wrote:I don’t know if you ever had the chance to watch highlights of Madagascar’s 57-54 win over Namibia a few years ago but it was one of the craziest things I have seen in rugby. Their players have incredible tenacity. Rugby is a sport for all there especially the poor so it makes sense that they have some tough guys. They don’t really have an analogous nation in Asian rugby.

Schools rugby is the main thing in SL and they are all elite schools as far as I can tell. They usually have some size btw. Maybe not height but definitely weight.

Spoiler:
Image


I didn't see that game but I have watched some Madagascan rugby. Those guys can play. But unless a team has a couple of 6'8" locks they don't stand a chance in international rugby. Sri Lanka have a bit more money. They can probably draft in some tall Fijians, although residency rule changes makes that less of an option. Failing that there are bound to be plenty of English rugby players with a Sri Lankan granny.


Uruguay have had one 6’8” lock, ever. Generally their backs aren’t very big either. But they are extremely well drilled especially on defense while Madagascar don’t have the coaching or a high performance environment to help them get to that level.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 12:48

RugbyLiebe wrote:
4N wrote:
Would love to read 4N's take on this. Can this trend be reversed by gaining popularity by using heritage players (maybe even some who chose to play for another nation first) or could using so many expats actually be a reason why local talent gets less and less chances (they define homegrown as born and rugby raised until their teens, so scholarship guys would still be homegrown)?


It’s probably because Samoa has one of the highest emigration rates in the world and there are now more Samoans living outside of the country than in it, including many in the world’s best rugby nursery, NZ.

Just a guess.


Definitely.
The question is, what could this mean long-term? Will they stay "Samoans" by nationality or only by cultural background? I mean NZ seems like an open country which makes it easy for people to feel being Kiwi. The basic concept of national teams (as it is now) worldwide is that the inhabitants of a nation represent it. Do you think that if the rules of representation would be tightened to parents, that i.e. Samoa will gain problems?


Again they have one of the highest emigration rates in the world (Tonga is #2 in the world behind Syria) so I don’t think it will be a problem. Most of the current team are second generation obviously, not third. It’s a young and growing diaspora. This is a huge challenge for the nation of Samoa overall, but at least for Samoan rugby has some benefits.

I don’t think openness of a society has much of an impact on people feeling connected to the country of their parents or grandparents. I have immigrants and the children of immigrants in my family and live in an area dominated by immigrants. The kids born here are typical Americans but still have some cultural attachment to the country of their parents.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 13:06

Edgar wrote:Yes, not much of a comparison, I'm afraid. Kenya and Uganda have run up some huge scores against North African opposition in recent years, including a century or two, while Sri Lanka backed out of an Asian promotion-relegation match with Hong Kong a few years ago for fear of being out of their depth.


Kenya beat Morocco by four points last time they played then got hosed by Namibia and everyone in repechage. You obviously have a big interest in hyping Kenyan rugby and that’s great but calling them the great hope of African rugby is way off the mark. Part of their problem is that they don’t produce pro players. Any nation looking to make the step up needs an ability to produce pros, a diaspora in rugby-playing countries, or the money to import them. So far Kenya has none of those.

Posts: 383
Joined: Sun, 21 May 2017, 09:02
National Flag:
PolandPoland

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby rey200 » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 17:27

4N wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
4N wrote:
Would love to read 4N's take on this. Can this trend be reversed by gaining popularity by using heritage players (maybe even some who chose to play for another nation first) or could using so many expats actually be a reason why local talent gets less and less chances (they define homegrown as born and rugby raised until their teens, so scholarship guys would still be homegrown)?


It’s probably because Samoa has one of the highest emigration rates in the world and there are now more Samoans living outside of the country than in it, including many in the world’s best rugby nursery, NZ.

Just a guess.


Definitely.
The question is, what could this mean long-term? Will they stay "Samoans" by nationality or only by cultural background? I mean NZ seems like an open country which makes it easy for people to feel being Kiwi. The basic concept of national teams (as it is now) worldwide is that the inhabitants of a nation represent it. Do you think that if the rules of representation would be tightened to parents, that i.e. Samoa will gain problems?


Again they have one of the highest emigration rates in the world (Tonga is #2 in the world behind Syria) so I don’t think it will be a problem. Most of the current team are second generation obviously, not third. It’s a young and growing diaspora. This is a huge challenge for the nation of Samoa overall, but at least for Samoan rugby has some benefits.

I don’t think openness of a society has much of an impact on people feeling connected to the country of their parents or grandparents. I have immigrants and the children of immigrants in my family and live in an area dominated by immigrants. The kids born here are typical Americans but still have some cultural attachment to the country of their parents.


I somehow had to think about Tua T. who had the flag of American Samoa next to his twitter nickname (actually still has it there).. I don't know where his parents were born, but they seem to have grown up in California. I think the best of the crop will continue to play for the countries they can't make the most money playing for them. Nobody will ever tell them they aren't Samoan because they play for another country. It's expected to give support to your family and so everything is kind of a business decision... I guess
Ceterum censeo Sex Nationes esse augendas.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 19:09

Tua and his parents are from Hawaii, grandparents from American Samoa.

Good article here...

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... ons-making

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 21:03

4N wrote:Kenya beat Morocco by four points last time they played then got hosed by Namibia and everyone in repechage. You obviously have a big interest in hyping Kenyan rugby and that’s great but calling them the great hope of African rugby is way off the mark. Part of their problem is that they don’t produce pro players. Any nation looking to make the step up needs an ability to produce pros, a diaspora in rugby-playing countries, or the money to import them. So far Kenya has none of those.


Yes, Kenya were restricted to a 4-point victory in their away match to Morocco 2 years ago; the same year they beat Tunisia 76-0 at home, and a year after they posted a century against the Carthage Eagles (Namibia also beat Tunisia 118-0 that year). Uganda, meanwhile, defeated Morocco by 20 points and Tunisia by 55 in 2018, having beaten the latter 78-17 the year before. So well done on finding the one result among that lot that wasn't a thrashing for the North Africans.

But I'm still not sure how you arrive at the conclusion Morocco with its 7K players - or Algeria with its 6 clubs. empty stadiums and reliance upon European-based diaspora should be a priority over East Africa, with its combined 75,000 registered players and vibrant domestic scene. Kenya and Uganda finished 2nd and 3rd in 2018, the former heading to the World Cup qualifying repechage, while Morocco came dead last in Africa and were relegated to division 2.

Kenya's World Class Olympic-qualified 7s team aside, East Africa is not a production line for professional players, true, which is precisely why it should be a priority for World Rugby assistance, and certainly ahead of the Maghreb, whose most promising youngsters are more likely to end up playing for France - as well as in France. So it's something of a mystery as to why you are so dismissive of East Africa, but I guess you have your reasons.

Meanwhile, my original point was simply that the World Rugby-funded Pacific Challenge series seems the ideal competition to nurture Asia's second and third teams with World Cup expansion likely to happen in 2027. Traditionally that has been Hong Kong and Korea, of course (though if another team breaks into the top 3, by all means let them play). Whatever, but the work needs to begin now.
Last edited by Edgar on Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 21:10, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Posts: 3103
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby 4N » Thu, 09 Jan 2020, 21:08

But I'm still not sure how you arrive at the conclusion Morocco with its 7K players, empty stadiums and reliance upon European-based diaspora should be a priority over East Africa


Not sure how one would arrive at that conclusion because I never said it. If I had to put money on someone in Africa stepping up and knocking off Namibia it would be Algeria or Zimbabwe.

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Sat, 11 Jan 2020, 16:09

Interesting comments in the Samoan Observer. They don't seem to have much faith in their own system. I'm sure I've pointed this out before, but Samoa were slow out of the blocks in international rugby and were not even considered a major factor prior to the 1990s. They had traditionally ranked behind Fiji and Tonga and were not invited to the first World Cup. But lax eligibility laws allowed them to tap into their thriving New Zealand-based diaspora in the 1990s, and expectations have remained high ever since - unrealistically so now the laws have been tightened. This remains a bone of contention between the Pacific Islands and World Rugby, but personally I think the latter have got it right. What I would like to see is an Island of Origin match between Samoa and Tonga with diaspora included, but I doubt the clubs franchises and provinces these players are signed to would be keen on such a prospect.

The man who secured rugby scholarships for dozens of Samoans throughout the 1990s thinks the best way to develop elite talents is to send them offshore in their mid-teens to maximize their potential.

The Samoan Schools team used to play Tonga, Fiji and New Zealand in regular tours both at home and abroad, which was priceless exposure"

“If we’d take 32 guys on tour, by the end of a tour there’d be 20 with schools interested in them,” Apelu said.

What did come with a price tag was the education all those young men were getting for free.

“To Kelston, you’re looking at NZ$30,000 in school fees and tuition,” Apelu said.

Players went to Anglican Grammar in Brisbane (AU$50,000), even as far as Rossall School in England (£30,000) and received educations that would otherwise have been completely unattainable.


Full article here: https://www.samoaobserver.ws/category/sport/55936

Posts: 3287
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 14 Jan 2020, 07:37

Edgar wrote:and expectations have remained high ever since - unrealistically so now the laws have been tightened.


Which laws that affect Samoa have been tightened in the last 10+ years? The only change I am aware of is the eligibility law through residency going up from 3 to 5 years. Haven't heard about a single Islander qualifying through residency for Fiji, Samoa or Tonga.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Tue, 14 Jan 2020, 09:04

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Edgar wrote:and expectations have remained high ever since - unrealistically so now the laws have been tightened.


Which laws that affect Samoa have been tightened in the last 10+ years? The only change I am aware of is the eligibility law through residency going up from 3 to 5 years. Haven't heard about a single Islander qualifying through residency for Fiji, Samoa or Tonga.



Further back than that. The rules were changed around the turn of the century, following the Grannygate scandals. Samoa hasn't returned to the World Cup quarterfinals since. It may have had something to do with the brief German occupation at the start of last century, but rugby did not take off in Samoa quite so quickly as it did in Fiji and Tonga. Their glory days, as we all know, were in the 1990s when they were able to tap into their New Zealand-based diaspora. That's not to belittle the team, of course. They punch well above their weight for a nation of 200K.

Tonga rugby "broke" - https://matangitonga.to/2020/01/15/tong ... 9hASYmqHJQ

Posts: 781
Joined: Mon, 03 Jun 2019, 19:53
National Flag:
New ZealandNew Zealand

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby Edgar » Wed, 15 Jan 2020, 21:09

Former Ikale Tahi captain and Hurricanes star Inoke Afeaki penning articles for the Tongan press these days. I didn't realise they were suffering from precisely the same issues as their Samoan neighbors - Political interference in rugby administration, rampant corruption and lack of accountability. Definitely worth a read:

Tonga’s previous Prime Minister Hon. 'Akilisi Pohiva was a champion for the democracy movement in Tonga for over three decades. He did not need the TRU President role to win votes, our people loved him without buying into the Rugby Union gimmick, but somehow it became a party strategy to take over Rugby Union and Rugby League. The unfortunate side effect of choosing this strategy, broke its own political party values of transparency, fairness and allowed little to no checks on abuse by those in the TRU leadership. The vision of what democracy could bring for Tonga was not looking very fair.


Full article: https://matangitonga.to/2020/01/15/tong ... 9hASYmqHJQ

Posts: 3287
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Rugby in Oceania

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 16 Jan 2020, 08:08

Edgar wrote: Their glory days, as we all know, were in the 1990s when they were able to tap into their New Zealand-based diaspora.


Ehm, 15 New Zealand born players in the RWC squad is what you would call a healthy tap into their diaspora, right?
Source: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2019/0 ... -rwc-2019/

I know where you are coming from, but the still extremely lax rules are not the reason why they don't perform that well anymore.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests