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Increase the RWC to 24 teams

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby The Do » Thu, 17 May 2018, 20:49

Neptune wrote:If WR had sorted it's house in order a long time ago, and had adjusted the RWC teams to 24, we wouldn't be in this mess with the REC right now. The limited chances of qualification teams, and with only 8 teams guaranteed a spot, makes it a matter of life and death for tier 2 and 3 nations to qualify.


What a lot of crap! Even if there was 4 more side in the World Cup, I think it would be absolutely ridiculous to suggest that sides wouldn’t still try to use ineligible players.
So let’s say there was four more teams, only one would probably go automatically to Europe, one probably to Africa, one probably to the Americas and one to an extra reprecharge. How is that going to stop Romania, Spain and Belgium fielding ineligible players by only having one extra direct spot.
We all want to increase the number of teams in the World Cup but let’s not try to shift the blame away from what those Unions did.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 17 May 2018, 20:52

The Do wrote:
Neptune wrote:If WR had sorted it's house in order a long time ago, and had adjusted the RWC teams to 24, we wouldn't be in this mess with the REC right now. The limited chances of qualification teams, and with only 8 teams guaranteed a spot, makes it a matter of life and death for tier 2 and 3 nations to qualify.


What a lot of crap! Even if there was 4 more side in the World Cup, I think it would be absolutely ridiculous to suggest that sides wouldn’t still try to use ineligible players.
So let’s say there was four more teams, only one would probably go automatically to Europe, one probably to Africa, one probably to the Americas and one to an extra reprecharge. How is that going to stop Romania, Spain and Belgium fielding ineligible players by only having one extra direct spot.
We all want to increase the number of teams in the World Cup but let’s not try to shift the blame away from what those Unions did.


I agree, but the limited spots is what makes people use short cuts to qualify. WR just needs to get its house in order. From my personal opinion, Spain was the team to qualify and were denied justice. Kudos to Russia on their qualification.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby The Do » Thu, 17 May 2018, 21:03

You can say limited spots made these Unions do this but let’s imagine Europe had 12 automatic spots, who is to say Portugal or the Netherlands won’t try to field ineligible player due to “limited spots”. The limited spots line is a cop out. I feel sorry for the players who have busted their arses through training, time away from their jobs and family and have it come to nothing because their Unions can’t follow rules.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 18 May 2018, 00:36

Neptune wrote:If WR had sorted it's house in order a long time ago, and had adjusted the RWC teams to 24, we wouldn't be in this mess with the REC right now. The limited chances of qualification teams, and with only 8 teams guaranteed a spot, makes it a matter of life and death for tier 2 and 3 nations to qualify.

The issues at the European qualifier don't depend on the number of qualifying spots or the tournament format. They happened because of mismanagement of the unions.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 18 May 2018, 02:21

In some way it's good this eligibility issues happened now because it means there's time to reform the process before expanding. The last thing we need is for expansion to happen and then find out 6-7 teams who have qualified have players in their team who shouldn't be there. But Russia is really going to have to step up to the mark in the next 18 month. If they can put up competitive matches against Ireland and Scotland that may actually help the expansion case more.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Grayday88 » Mon, 21 May 2018, 23:10

I think expansion is likely due to the markets that 24 teams could bring in like Brazil and Hong Kong

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 22 May 2018, 13:28

WR more than likely is looking at Brazil's development in recent years with a keen eye.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Wed, 23 May 2018, 17:35

I hope the REC 2018 mess will now open WR's eyes for the 2023 World Cup and make them increase the teams. We can never stoop so low to that level where teams that progress are decided in boardrooms rather than on the pitch. 2023 should be the first World Cup with 24 teams.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Tobar » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:00

thatrugbyguy wrote:WR more than likely is looking at Brazil's development in recent years with a keen eye.


Considering the introduction of the South American league and recent expansion of South American tournaments, I would imagine that they are considering the idea in the future. The earliest that they could expand would be at least 2027 since no one is hosting it yet. Ideally this means 7 years of a professional league in South America. Even though the competition will not be anywhere near as good as Tier 1 competitions it will still have a tremendous effect on the countries and will make a potential 24 team RWC far more competitive than without it.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby qwerty » Wed, 23 May 2018, 18:27

I had no idea you were in Earful of Dirt!

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Tobar » Wed, 23 May 2018, 19:22

Kept a low profile but unfortunately no one has unknowingly heaped immense praises on me so there’s no reason to keep secret anymore :p

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Tobar » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 18:37

I was just thinking, what if we did away with the repechaje all together and created a 10 team repechaje where the best 5 teams advance. Obviously this would involve adding 4 extra spots to the RWC (plus the repechaje team).

The format would be the top 2 teams from each region - Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa and Oceania. I’m not sure what would be the best format for this tournament or if it should be a single tournament, per se. You could do 2 pools of 5 and somehow pick the best 5 from those games. Or you can do a straight up round robin over the course of a few months. This would overlap with regional tournaments like the ARC so you may have to use those games as qualifying matches.

I may be making this more complicated than it needs to be but you can easily play 3 or 4 games per window. At the very least this will provide more games between countries who typically lack consistent test matches in June/ July and November. But by doing it this way then you can ensure you get the absolute best teams to fill out the new 4 spots and avoid having too many blowouts.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 19:44

I would support a second world repechage spot, but not more. The more repechage teams, the less diverse representation.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Blurandski » Wed, 01 Aug 2018, 20:53

NaBUru38 wrote:I would support a second world repechage spot, but not more. The more repechage teams, the less diverse representation.


Currently the split of guaranteed (basically)regional spots for the past few RWCs has been the same regardless of who auto-qualifies:

Africa: 2
Asia: 1
Americas: 3
Europe: 8
Oceania: 5
Repechage: 1

The next best four teams in each region are ranked:

Africa: 28, 37, 40, 42 (Kenya, Uganda, Tunisia, Morocco)

Asia: 21, 31, 41, 48 (Hong Kong, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Malaysia)

Americas: 22, 26, 30, 38 (Canada, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay)

Europe (6): 19, 20, 24, 25, 27, 29 (Russia, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany)

Oceania: 54, 67, 85, 98 (Cook Islands, PNG, Tahiti, Niue)

If the RWC went to 24 on pure merit you'd see HK, Canada, Romania, Spain, Portugal qualify, which would take European sides to just under 50%, and would be rubbish. Also ideally you'd have a competition for qualifying spots, realistically the only competition this time around has been in Americas and Europe.

Perhaps I'd bump it to:

Africa: 2.5 (playoff v Africa)
Asia: 1.5 (playoff v Asia)
Americas: 4.5 (+1.5) (playoff v Europe)
Europe: 9.5 (+1.5) (playoff v America)
Oceania: 5
Repechage: 1 (loser of two playoffs, Africa 4, Americas 5 (who playoff v Oceania 6 beforehand))

On current rankings:

Romania, Canada qualify regionally,

Kenya v HK (HK advance)
Brazil v Spain (Spain advance)

Repechage: Brazil, Kenya, Uganda, Chile face off for the final spot, which either of Brazil or Kenya would likely win. 9.5 European sides, likely 10 almost every year though. On current rankings 1-23 would qualify, with 26/27 would be the last.

The main issue with expansion is that Europe has most top T3 nations. From 24 to 29, 4/5 are European (w/Spain at 20). From 24 to 36, 9/13 are European. That being said in the FWC 44% are European, which is a higher percentage than the 41.7% 10 European teams would be.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 08:29

Blurandski wrote:If the RWC went to 24 on pure merit you'd see HK, Canada, Romania, Spain, Portugal qualify, which would take European sides to just under 50%, and would be rubbish.


Why exactly would it be rubbish? Every new country brings in a new language in Europe. Quite enhances diversity. But still I see no scenario where Europe hits 50% - also we already had 9 out of 20 teams in 2011 and 2007.

I would go for this
Africa: 3 (+1)
Ocea-Asia: 6,5 (+0,5)
Americas: 3,5 (+0,5)
Europe: 9 (+1)
Repechage: 2

Every continent gets an extra spot/ the chance for an extra spot. Full places go to the Unions with the most depth (number of nations playing each year) behind. I just don't see how Americas or Ocea-Asia could get an additional set place before Africa or Europe.

Repechage 8 teams, 2 groups of 4 in June 2022, playoff semi-final 1st vs 2nd in November 2022.
2 from Africa, 2 from Americas, 2 from Europe, 2 from Ocea-Asia
Groups based on positions in the world rugby ranking came December 1st 2021.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby BigG » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 08:46

I would support 24 teams. 6 groups with 4 teams in each. 16 of them qualify. Formula (format) of qualification is well known from FIFA WC 1986 or 1990.

Meanwhile after group stage eliminated teams should play 2 more games each for respectively: 17th, as well 21st places.

Besides, 8 teams eliminated in 1/8 final should play 2 more games: mini quarter finals (4 pairs), and winners will organize mini semifinals. The two winners will automatically qualify for the next WC.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Figaro » Thu, 02 Aug 2018, 20:10

BigG wrote:I would support 24 teams. 6 groups with 4 teams in each. 16 of them qualify. Formula (format) of qualification is well known from FIFA WC 1986 or 1990.

Meanwhile after group stage eliminated teams should play 2 more games each for respectively: 17th, as well 21st places.

Besides, 8 teams eliminated in 1/8 final should play 2 more games: mini quarter finals (4 pairs), and winners will organize mini semifinals. The two winners will automatically qualify for the next WC.


No, there shouldnt be any of those 17th place games for teams knocked out. Nobody will want to watch them and it will make the competition that much harder and more expensive to host.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Grayday88 » Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 22:00


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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 22:38

The main question is how many votes can this proposal collect at World Rugby Council.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 22:47

Grayday88 wrote:An article from the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/ ... teams-2023


This is good news to my ear

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 01:54

Great to hear this is still on the table for '23.

Armchair Fan wrote:The main question is how many votes can this proposal collect at World Rugby Council.


Hard question to answer. For Canada and Romania it would be an easy yes given the rise in competitiveness in their regions. It's going to come down to competitiveness next year I believe. For the most part the pools are pretty evenly match next year with the exception of Pool B that has Namibia and the Repechage winner. Namibia I think will be ok, I think they've shown a real improvement over the last few years and even though they'll be beaten comfortably by New Zealand and South Africa I don't think it will be a massive blowout. The repechage team I feel is the only real concern, because there's a decent chance whoever qualifies might be one of the lowest ranked teams in history to make it to the World Cup.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 07:27

I don't like this

Gosper said how the lower-tier nations like Georgia and Namibia
performed in Japan could prove to be a factor in expansion plans.

“If those teams had a good tournament
it would give courage and impetus to change,” he added.


WR CEO should have checked WR Rankings and mention other nations
which stand clearly below my GEO

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 08:27

How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 08:29

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:I don't like this

Gosper said how the lower-tier nations like Georgia and Namibia
performed in Japan could prove to be a factor in expansion plans.

“If those teams had a good tournament
it would give courage and impetus to change,” he added.


WR CEO should have checked WR Rankings and mention other nations
which stand clearly below my GEO


To cheer you up:
"We're always looking from an expansive point of view rather than reducing, so it's just a question of when rather than if," Gosper told British media."
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 08:32

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:I don't like this

Gosper said how the lower-tier nations like Georgia and Namibia
performed in Japan could prove to be a factor in expansion plans.

“If those teams had a good tournament
it would give courage and impetus to change,” he added.


WR CEO should have checked WR Rankings and mention other nations
which stand clearly below my GEO


To be fair he probably just picked the first two teams that came to his head. I wouldn't look too much into that.

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