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Increase the RWC to 24 teams

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby ihateblazers » Wed, 29 Mar 2017, 23:44

NaBUru38 wrote:Africa already has one spot below South Africa for teams like Namibia, Kenya or Zimbawe.
Asia has no spots below Japan for teams like Hong Kong, South Korea or China.

Therefore I think that Asia-Pacific should be given an extra spot rather than Africa.


I just don't care much for Hong Kong and their expat/non Cantonese speaking team. The public won't give a damn of they make it to the world cup because of that.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 07:47

NaBUru38 wrote:Africa already has one spot below South Africa for teams like Namibia, Kenya or Zimbawe.
Asia has no spots below Japan for teams like Hong Kong, South Korea or China.

Therefore I think that Asia-Pacific should be given an extra spot rather than Africa.



Africa is the continent with the 2nd highest population. Sorry to say, but Asia is more inclined to other sports like Kabaddi and Cricket. Once WR expands, one of the factors they will look at is growth markets, and Africa's growth markets such as Madagascar, Zimbabwe, Kenya, Uganda and Tunisia shows alot of potential.
So, Africa definately needs an extra spot once WR expands to 24.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 08:10

NaBUru38 wrote:I would prefer 1 extra spot for Americas, 1 for Europe, 1 for Asia-Pacific, and 1 for a second repechage team.


NaBUru38, I will also pose this to you, why do you think Americas deserves an extra spot, yet you already have 2? Africa has 1 spot so we just need an extra one to be level with the others. Remember, South Africa is not considered as part of Africa according to the United Nations latest report.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 08:15

I see both sides of the argument for Asia and Africa. There's not doubt that Africa has the more competitive nations, on the other hand Asia being left with only one representative doesn't help with growth. Perhaps the easiest solution then is instead of giving one or the other an extra spot have the two regions playoff for the right to qualify directly. Perhaps 2 repechage places is the best solution:

Repechage 1 Places
Asia - 2
Africa - 2

Repechage 2 Places
Europe - 2
Oceania - 1
Americas - 1

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 08:27

thatrugbyguy wrote:I see both sides of the argument for Asia and Africa. There's not doubt that Africa has the more competitive nations, on the other hand Asia being left with only one representative doesn't help with growth. Perhaps the easiest solution then is instead of giving one or the other an extra spot have the two regions playoff for the right to qualify directly. Perhaps 2 repechage places is the best solution:

Repechage 1 Places
Asia - 2
Africa - 2

Repechage 2 Places
Europe - 2
Oceania - 1
Americas - 1


I wouldn't mind having a playoff against any asian side outside of Japan. :) It will be like taking candy from a baby, plus any of the top 3 african sides can easily beat Hong Kong. Zimbabwe, Namibia and Kenya. ;)

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 08:31

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeDNS2EpmvY&t=1s

We beat them last year with a bonus in Nairobi, and were to go for the return leg in Hong Kong in November, only for them to invite Zimbabwe to our suprise. We were to play Russia, PNG, and Hong Kong.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 08:44

The most disappointing thing for me is that Hong Kong has had the sevens, one of the biggest tournaments in the world series for a very long time and the sport has hardly progressed there. Other t2/t3 nations would kill for that type of anual event. Their union has done sweet FA and the expat rugby community doesn't make an effort to open up the game. I don't see much hope for the game there. Even now they're recruiting t1 reject players to fill up their elite squad whilst there are hardly any Chinese or Cantonese sepaking players in the domestic league. The local population couldn't give a toss about the game and i don't blame them. The depressing thing is that Hong Kong is far ahead of the other Asian nations as well.

Growth in Asia won't come from world cup participation in my opinion and it is far too weak a region to give more than 1 spot to. Growth will come from there being a major mainstream club competition with global superstars somewhere around the world. Super rugby could kind of market itself being closer and all but their track record in marketing and general effort to expand its horizons leaves a lot to be desired.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 09:04

I think the big thing that's prevented growth in Asia is the notion that Asian players are too small to ever compete against the African, Pacific and European teams. Eddie Jones basically proved this is nonsense with what he did with Japan. His solution to them competing, which has followed on with the Sunwolves, was simply to change their diet to be more western based, and to use their superior speed to their advantage. Japanese players on average were 10kg lighter than other rugby nations a few years ago, Eddie apparently got that down to about 7kg in 2015. Doesn't sound like much but it was clearly enough for them to be able to improve their defence and tackling techniques. Eddie basically cracked the formula for Asian rugby to be competitive at the top level, it's just a matter now of that filtering down to other nations in the region.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 19:55

Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:I would prefer 1 extra spot for Americas, 1 for Europe, 1 for Asia-Pacific, and 1 for a second repechage team.


NaBUru38, I will also pose this to you, why do you think Americas deserves an extra spot, yet you already have 2?

Africa has 1 spot so we just need an extra one to be level with the others. Remember, South Africa is not considered as part of Africa according to the United Nations latest report.


The past two World Cup repechages have been Europe vs South America. Therefore I think that those two countries would deserve an additional automatic spot.

I remind you that I propose having two repechage spots.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby victorsra » Thu, 30 Mar 2017, 20:09

Trying to read WR's minds, they have been talking about China, Germany and Brazil a lot.

If they expand te RWC to 24, I guess they will want to have:

- 9 Europe;
- 5 Oceania
- 4 Americas (I believe the ARC will be the Qualy soon)
- 3 Africa
- 2 Asia
- 1 Repechage or a direct 10th place to Europe. It will be a political decision. I bet for a Repechage, that could involve Brazil, Spain, Germany...

Asia will have its spot, Alibaba is the new thing.
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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 01:47

The only other option I can see is eliminating the repechage place all together. But then again you're leaving out a surprise qualifier by doing that. I don't ever think Oceania should be given any more than 4 direct qualification spaces, otherwise there's no point in making qualifiers for that region.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 05:23

victorsra wrote:Trying to read WR's minds, they have been talking about China, Germany and Brazil a lot.

If they expand te RWC to 24, I guess they will want to have:

- 9 Europe;
- 5 Oceania
- 4 Americas (I believe the ARC will be the Qualy soon)
- 3 Africa
- 2 Asia
- 1 Repechage or a direct 10th place to Europe. It will be a political decision. I bet for a Repechage, that could involve Brazil, Spain, Germany...

Asia will have its spot, Alibaba is the new thing.


Europe i understand - 6N teams + Georgia, Romania, and Spain
Oceania i dont Understand - NZ, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga + Cook islands? (common r you serious?)
4 Americas - its normal, Argentina, US, Canada + Uruguay/Brazil
Africa good - RSA + Namibia, Kenya/Zombabwe
Asia 2 - also good, Japan + Hong Kong
1 repechage - Europe will dominate that spot, who is left besides Russia/Germany? - Cook islands, Uruguay/Brazil, Kenya/Zimbabwe.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby DRL » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 06:18

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
victorsra wrote:Trying to read WR's minds, they have been talking about China, Germany and Brazil a lot.

If they expand te RWC to 24, I guess they will want to have:

- 9 Europe;
- 5 Oceania
- 4 Americas (I believe the ARC will be the Qualy soon)
- 3 Africa
- 2 Asia
- 1 Repechage or a direct 10th place to Europe. It will be a political decision. I bet for a Repechage, that could involve Brazil, Spain, Germany...

Asia will have its spot, Alibaba is the new thing.


Europe i understand - 6N teams + Georgia, Romania, and Spain
Oceania i dont Understand - NZ, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga + Cook islands? (common r you serious?)
4 Americas - its normal, Argentina, US, Canada + Uruguay/Brazil
Africa good - RSA + Namibia, Kenya/Zombabwe
Asia 2 - also good, Japan + Hong Kong
1 repechage - Europe will dominate that spot, who is left besides Russia/Germany? - Cook islands, Uruguay/Brazil, Kenya/Zimbabwe.

You forgot Australia in Oceania.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Figaro » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 08:08

thatrugbyguy wrote:I think the big thing that's prevented growth in Asia is the notion that Asian players are too small to ever compete against the African, Pacific and European teams. Eddie Jones basically proved this is nonsense with what he did with Japan. His solution to them competing, which has followed on with the Sunwolves, was simply to change their diet to be more western based, and to use their superior speed to their advantage. Japanese players on average were 10kg lighter than other rugby nations a few years ago, Eddie apparently got that down to about 7kg in 2015. Doesn't sound like much but it was clearly enough for them to be able to improve their defence and tackling techniques. Eddie basically cracked the formula for Asian rugby to be competitive at the top level, it's just a matter now of that filtering down to other nations in the region.


I don't know a great deal about Chinese culture but I don't get the impression that team sports are considered especially prestigious there. Consider how weak the Chinese football (soccer) team is, yet they have a pro league, huge amounts of cash, and various other advantages that Chinese Rugby could only dream of. I think if the Chinese wanted to become world beaters in a team sport they would have done so with football ages ago; Central Asia / Southern and Southeastern Asia and even the middle east seem more promising markets to me.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 13:44

NaBUru38 wrote:
Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:I would prefer 1 extra spot for Americas, 1 for Europe, 1 for Asia-Pacific, and 1 for a second repechage team.


NaBUru38, I will also pose this to you, why do you think Americas deserves an extra spot, yet you already have 2?

Africa has 1 spot so we just need an extra one to be level with the others. Remember, South Africa is not considered as part of Africa according to the United Nations latest report.


The past two World Cup repechages have been Europe vs South America. Therefore I think that those two countries would deserve an additional automatic spot.

I remind you that I propose having two repechage spots.


Nabru38, the repechege spots is not an adequate measure to determine slots for RWC teams. There are many factors involved, looking at growth markets and audiences, Africa is a more viable option as compared to South America. There are only about 6 teams that are active competitiors in South America, while in Africa, there are 10 + teams. As a matter of fact, next year, im sure there will be an African team in the repechege final. Time will tell.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 14:09

Figaro wrote: I don't know a great deal about Chinese culture but I don't get the impression that team sports are considered especially prestigious there.

Consider how weak the Chinese football (soccer) team is, yet they have a pro league, huge amounts of cash, and various other advantages that Chinese Rugby could only dream of. I think if the Chinese wanted to become world beaters in a team sport they would have done so with football ages ago


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_at_the_Olympics

China is best in individual sports: gymnastics, martial arts, table tennis, badminton, weightlifting, shooting, archery, swimming. Their only strong team sport is women's volleyball.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 14:12

Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:
Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:I would prefer 1 extra spot for Americas, 1 for Europe, 1 for Asia-Pacific, and 1 for a second repechage team.


NaBUru38, I will also pose this to you, why do you think Americas deserves an extra spot, yet you already have 2?

Africa has 1 spot so we just need an extra one to be level with the others. Remember, South Africa is not considered as part of Africa according to the United Nations latest report.


The past two World Cup repechages have been Europe vs South America. Therefore I think that those two countries would deserve an additional automatic spot.

I remind you that I propose having two repechage spots.


Nabru38, the repechege spots is not an adequate measure to determine slots for RWC teams. There are many factors involved, looking at growth markets and audiences, Africa is a more viable option as compared to South America. There are only about 6 teams that are active competitiors in South America, while in Africa, there are 10 + teams. As a matter of fact, next year, im sure there will be an African team in the repechege final. Time will tell.


I would also accept giving the fourth spot to Africa instead of a second repechage team.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 14:16

NaBUru38 wrote:
Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:
Neptune wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:I would prefer 1 extra spot for Americas, 1 for Europe, 1 for Asia-Pacific, and 1 for a second repechage team.


NaBUru38, I will also pose this to you, why do you think Americas deserves an extra spot, yet you already have 2?

Africa has 1 spot so we just need an extra one to be level with the others. Remember, South Africa is not considered as part of Africa according to the United Nations latest report.


The past two World Cup repechages have been Europe vs South America. Therefore I think that those two countries would deserve an additional automatic spot.

I remind you that I propose having two repechage spots.


Nabru38, the repechege spots is not an adequate measure to determine slots for RWC teams. There are many factors involved, looking at growth markets and audiences, Africa is a more viable option as compared to South America. There are only about 6 teams that are active competitiors in South America, while in Africa, there are 10 + teams. As a matter of fact, next year, im sure there will be an African team in the repechege final. Time will tell.


I would also accept giving the fourth spot to Africa instead of a second repechage team.


We need an extra qualification spot, that's the main bone of contention. The repechege slot goes to all the continents.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 14:57

Figaro wrote:
I don't know a great deal about Chinese culture but I don't get the impression that team sports are considered especially prestigious there. Consider how weak the Chinese football (soccer) team is, yet they have a pro league, huge amounts of cash, and various other advantages that Chinese Rugby could only dream of. I think if the Chinese wanted to become world beaters in a team sport they would have done so with football ages ago; Central Asia / Southern and Southeastern Asia and even the middle east seem more promising markets to me.

Their women's soccer team is very good.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby victorsra » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 15:12

I don't know a great deal about Chinese culture but I don't get the impression that team sports are considered especially prestigious there. Consider how weak the Chinese football (soccer) team is, yet they have a pro league, huge amounts of cash, and various other advantages that Chinese Rugby could only dream of. I


If you have missed the news, here you are: http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/business/t ... 454045.htm

Always remember: the RWC provides the money that WR invests in T2/T3 nations. They need big markets. All decisions regarding the 24-teams WC wll mix inside and outside the field reasons.
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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 31 Mar 2017, 16:58

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
victorsra wrote:Trying to read WR's minds, they have been talking about China, Germany and Brazil a lot.

If they expand te RWC to 24, I guess they will want to have:

- 9 Europe;
- 5 Oceania
- 4 Americas (I believe the ARC will be the Qualy soon)
- 3 Africa
- 2 Asia
- 1 Repechage or a direct 10th place to Europe. It will be a political decision. I bet for a Repechage, that could involve Brazil, Spain, Germany...

Asia will have its spot, Alibaba is the new thing.


Europe i understand - 6N teams + Georgia, Romania, and Spain
Oceania i dont Understand - NZ, Samoa, Fiji, Tonga + Cook islands? (common r you serious?)
4 Americas - its normal, Argentina, US, Canada + Uruguay/Brazil
Africa good - RSA + Namibia, Kenya/Zombabwe
Asia 2 - also good, Japan + Hong Kong
1 repechage - Europe will dominate that spot, who is left besides Russia/Germany? - Cook islands, Uruguay/Brazil, Kenya/Zimbabwe.


Excellent trolling of Australia !!!

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 01 Apr 2017, 00:48

Neptune wrote:
We need an extra qualification spot, that's the main bone of contention. The repechege slot goes to all the continents.


the argument against Africa getting an extra spot ahead of Asia is outside of the Springboks an African team has never won a world cup match.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 01 Apr 2017, 01:02

Personally I think the talk about how to allocate between regions is ridiculous for a 24 team RWC at this point. The main opposition to a 24 team RWC is a lack of competitiveness. Let's make sure every continent or federation is represented and then let's make sure we have the best 24 teams possible there. Let them decide on the pitch who deserves to be there and let's have as competitive a RWC as possible. More competitive pool matches means more TV money, which in turn means more money to develop the game around the world.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 01 Apr 2017, 01:05

The paradox is as long as uneven pools exist we are never going to truly know the level of competitiveness. We don't know whether Japan would have beaten Scotland had both teams had the same scheduling in 2015.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby The Do » Sat, 01 Apr 2017, 06:16

thatrugbyguy wrote:The paradox is as long as uneven pools exist we are never going to truly know the level of competitiveness. We don't know whether Japan would have beaten Scotland had both teams had the same scheduling in 2015.


Hence why if it goes to 24 teams, you need to have 4 pools of 6. Everyone would have the same criteria to get to the next round and not some 3rd placed teams in the pool progress but other 3rd place teams don't.

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