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Increase the RWC to 24 teams

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 28 Jun 2017, 16:36

European Leagues need to unscrew themselves. The Lions Tour isn't even over and Aviva has started training camp.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 28 Jun 2017, 18:28

Almost as if they are for completely different players ...

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 29 Jun 2017, 01:55

if this isn't the proper definition of burnout, then I don't know what is.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby antlat » Thu, 29 Jun 2017, 03:14

Ok here's my remodelled qualifying idea. I've only tested this with Europe at the moment but I believe it's adaptable for the other regions. I'll have to double check though.

Image

First things first, the idea is based on all European competitions coming under the branding of the 6 Nations with promotion and relegation between all divisions. Key points:

• Model is based off 8 teams automatically qualifying for RWC instead of the current 12. However the new model can still be altered for use with the current format of 12 auto qualifiers if the 6 nations are removed.

• First qualifying stage begins the year after the last world cup and lasts 2 seasons during the 6 Nations window. Home and Away matches to determine who qualifies for the next stage.
• Second qualifying stage (European Qualifiers) begins in November 2017 with a 4 team tournament featuring the winners of the lowest leagues.
• Third qualifying stage (European Playoffs) begins in June 2018 with an 8 team tournament hosted in a neutral venue over 3 weekends. 2 Pools of 4 with the winners of each pool advancing to RWC, the runners up in each pool progress to the Repechage.
• Fourth qualifying stage is the Repechage tournament in November of 2018. 8 team tournament featuring the runners up from each region (2 x Europe, 2 x Americas, 2 x Africa, 1 x Oceania and 1 x Asia). Played over 3 (or 4) weekends at a neutral venue.
• The first two seasons are locked down, promotion and relegation will recommence after the first stage of qualifying, this gives nations two years to get themselves promoted to a higher division and therefore an easier path for the next world cup cycle.

• Each division is allocated a number of slots for each stage of qualification. The higher the division the more favourable the path is to the world cup.
• Teams who have automatically qualified from the previous world cup they will take up one of the slots allocated to their division.
eg: If England, Ireland, France and Wales automatically qualified from RWC 2015 they will automatically be assigned slots 1 - 4 for 2019, leaving Scotland and Italy to playoff for slot 5 over two legs in 2016 and 2017.

This took a long time to figure out so let me know how this all sounds, I probably missed something along the way and haven't accounted for all potential problems.



Love this idea. Well done!

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 30 Jun 2017, 16:04

sk 88 wrote:Almost as if they are for completely different players ...


The finals were played five weeks ago. Players need rest.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby olivier » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 15:30

Canada or Tonga exclusion from RWC could very well accelerate the expansion. All my prayers go to Spain and Uruguay.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 19:51

Spain only loss to Tonga by a try Last time they played if I remember.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 20:09

NaBUru38 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Almost as if they are for completely different players ...


The finals were played five weeks ago. Players need rest.



By two teams, some of them finished 7 weeks ago.

5 weeks of complete rest is enough, especially when there aren't any games until August and no competitive ones until September! Maybe getting on with it and not spending all their time on holiday is why T1 players are better? Just a thought .... ;)

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 20:17

The establishment doesn't really care about Tonga or Canada, I think.
The big markets in tier 2 are Japan, United States, Brazil, Russia and Germany.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby The Captain's Run » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 20:50

sk 88 wrote:5 weeks of complete rest is enough, especially when there aren't any games until August and no competitive ones until September! Maybe getting on with it and not spending all their time on holiday is why T1 players are better? Just a thought .... ;)


You can't speak for all of T1 on that. They have shorter seasons and more frequents breaks in the southern hemisphere. Maybe that's why SANZAR teams kick the northern hemisphere's ass all the time? Just a thought...

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Coloradoan » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 21:05

NaBUru38 wrote:The establishment doesn't really care about Tonga or Canada, I think.
The big markets in tier 2 are Japan, United States, Brazil, Russia and Germany.


The Canadian economy is close to the same size as Brazil's and bigger than Russia's. It's the 10th biggest economy in the world and it's one where rugby is better established than Russia, Brazil or Germany. It's an important market by any measure, for any sport.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 23:22

thatrugbyguy wrote:Spain only loss to Tonga by a try Last time they played if I remember.

Not really. 13-28, although Tonga scored a try in the last minute.

NaBUru38 wrote:The establishment doesn't really care about Tonga or Canada, I think.
The big markets in tier 2 are Japan, United States, Brazil, Russia and Germany.

The establishment absolutely cares about Canada and Pacific Islanders. Media and fans have a soft spot por Canada because of their amateurish background (and their beards) and the lack of any of the Pacific nations would ignite a movement for the protection of these teams in future tournaments, regardless of their mismanagement or corruption.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Jul 2017, 01:02

Canadian market is big, strong and solid for rugby. It is up to Rugby Canada to start being serious about having proper development and commercial plans. Brazilian Rugby just growed quickly because we have those two things better than most countries that have or had a stronger rugby than us. Just this.
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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 05 Jul 2017, 02:53

sk 88 wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Almost as if they are for completely different players ...


The finals were played five weeks ago. Players need rest.



By two teams, some of them finished 7 weeks ago.

5 weeks of complete rest is enough, especially when there aren't any games until August and no competitive ones until September! Maybe getting on with it and not spending all their time on holiday is why T1 players are better? Just a thought .... ;)

Rugby and Football are the most destructive team sports. The NFL has a 4 month off season. Time for Rugby to get with it if Player Welfare is really a thing.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 05 Jul 2017, 06:53

Armchair Fan wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Spain only loss to Tonga by a try Last time they played if I remember.

Not really. 13-28, although Tonga scored a try in the last minute.

NaBUru38 wrote:The establishment doesn't really care about Tonga or Canada, I think.
The big markets in tier 2 are Japan, United States, Brazil, Russia and Germany.

The establishment absolutely cares about Canada and Pacific Islanders. Media and fans have a soft spot por Canada because of their amateurish background (and their beards) and the lack of any of the Pacific nations would ignite a movement for the protection of these teams in future tournaments, regardless of their mismanagement or corruption.


What Armchair said. If you need further proof you just have to take a look at the RWC qualification to see that this is by far not the case. If nations are really protected it is the Pacific Islanders and that the Americas are still separated is a protection of Canada (+the USA).

Also the economy part about Canada (10th biggest in the world) is really important.
From this point of view and where Canada, a former quarter finalist, comes from you have to say that actually Canada is the most underperforming nation with the biggest downward spiral.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 21 Feb 2018, 21:01

How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 02:43

The article fails to mention the scheduling issues with the current format. In fact that seems to be an issue a lot of people overlook when being against the RWC going to 24, and I don't understand how people consistently overlook the fact.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Neptune » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 03:03

Interesting, the only question is, will WR heed the expansion calls or isolate themselves with games like cricket, that keep on reducing, rather than adding.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby rzesiej13 » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 03:41

2015 World Cup

Wales 54-9 Uruguay
Australia 65-3 Uruguay
Fiji 47-15 Uruguay
England 60-3 Uruguay

South Africa 64-0 USA
South Africa 46-6 Samoa
Scotland 45-10 Japan

New Zealand 58–14 Namibia
Argentina 64–19 Namibia
Argentina 54–9 Georgia
New Zealand 43–10 Georgia
Argentina 45–16 Tonga
New Zealand 47–9 Tonga

Ireland 50–7 Canada
France 41–18 Canada
France 38–11 Romania
Ireland 44–10 Romania

And some of you people want to add 4 more teams that will get beat by even more.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Osmanperalta » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 04:01

it's about expanding the sport to new markets!!!!!! teams being crushed happens in every fucking sport!!!!!

and tier 2 gave some of the most interesting matches:
SA 32 japan 34
Samoa 33 Scotland 36
tonga 10 Georgia 17
Namibia 16 Georgia 17
canada 15 Romania 17
italy 32 romania 22 it was a close match despite the final result

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby victorsra » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 04:11

Wales 54-9 Uruguay
Australia 65-3 Uruguay
Fiji 47-15 Uruguay
England 60-3 Uruguay

South Africa 64-0 USA
South Africa 46-6 Samoa
Scotland 45-10 Japan

New Zealand 58–14 Namibia
Argentina 64–19 Namibia
Argentina 54–9 Georgia
New Zealand 43–10 Georgia
Argentina 45–16 Tonga
New Zealand 47–9 Tonga

Ireland 50–7 Canada
France 41–18 Canada
France 38–11 Romania
Ireland 44–10 Romania


You see those scores in 6N, Rugby Championship, Super Rugby, Top 14, Premiership, PRO14 every week!!! This is rugby.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 04:13

rzesiej13 wrote:2015 World Cup

Wales 54-9 Uruguay
Australia 65-3 Uruguay
Fiji 47-15 Uruguay
England 60-3 Uruguay

South Africa 64-0 USA
South Africa 46-6 Samoa
Scotland 45-10 Japan

New Zealand 58–14 Namibia
Argentina 64–19 Namibia
Argentina 54–9 Georgia
New Zealand 43–10 Georgia
Argentina 45–16 Tonga
New Zealand 47–9 Tonga

Ireland 50–7 Canada
France 41–18 Canada
France 38–11 Romania
Ireland 44–10 Romania

And some of you people want to add 4 more teams that will get beat by even more.


And you need to see the fact the average winning margin in the world Cup has decreased consistently since 2003.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 07:43

I don't remember all the games but few from that list where really competitive despite the final score. And even like this, you have some bigger differences in 4N&6N from time to time.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 07:51

thatrugbyguy wrote:The article fails to mention the scheduling issues with the current format. In fact that seems to be an issue a lot of people overlook when being against the RWC going to 24, and I don't understand how people consistently overlook the fact.


Given a non-huge drop off from teams 21-24, it's the #1 reason to expand the tournament. The article did mention that 5 team pools make for bad scheduling but didn't go into detail. I'd use two examples from the last RWC:

1. USA vs South Africa. This was the worst match of the RWC. USA fielded a complete B side against SA because they had a more winable game 4 days later against Japan. This was a horrible game to watch as a result.

2. Japan vs SA/Japan vs Scotland: Japan had a similar situation as USA did, but they opted to field their best team for both matches. We all know what happened against SA, but they completely ran out of steam against Scotland and ended up missing the QFs because of it. There are two things to draw from this. One is that most coaches in the future will be a bit more cynical and probably choose the USA route, both for strategic reasons and for player welfare reasons. The second is to wonder how many potential upsets or otherwise classic matches we've missed out on because of teams opting to rest players for the more winable match.

6, 4-team pools solves this issue.

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Re: Increase the RWC to 24 teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 22 Feb 2018, 08:45

Coloradoan wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:The article fails to mention the scheduling issues with the current format. In fact that seems to be an issue a lot of people overlook when being against the RWC going to 24, and I don't understand how people consistently overlook the fact.


Given a non-huge drop off from teams 21-24, it's the #1 reason to expand the tournament. The article did mention that 5 team pools make for bad scheduling but didn't go into detail. I'd use two examples from the last RWC:

1. USA vs South Africa. This was the worst match of the RWC. USA fielded a complete B side against SA because they had a more winable game 4 days later against Japan. This was a horrible game to watch as a result.

2. Japan vs SA/Japan vs Scotland: Japan had a similar situation as USA did, but they opted to field their best team for both matches. We all know what happened against SA, but they completely ran out of steam against Scotland and ended up missing the QFs because of it. There are two things to draw from this. One is that most coaches in the future will be a bit more cynical and probably choose the USA route, both for strategic reasons and for player welfare reasons. The second is to wonder how many potential upsets or otherwise classic matches we've missed out on because of teams opting to rest players for the more winable match.

6, 4-team pools solves this issue.


Perfectly summarized. Also thought that this was the weakness of the article. Why not repost it as a comment on that site? Btw. never heard of the page before it somehow came up on my facebook stream. Judging by this article it makes a good impression...
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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