Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Tue, 14 Feb 2017, 18:08

Chile will play USA in Santiago area: https://www.facebook.com/Chilerugby/pho ... =3&theater

It is the San Carlos de Apoquino sports complex, home of one of Chile's biggest football clubs, Universidad Católica, that also has a rugby team. However, the match won't be in the main stadium. It will be on the athletics/rugby pitch next to the main stadium.

I believe this is that pitch's photo (not sure):
Image

Don't know how many people it has of capacity. But Chilean Rugby Union is selling the tickets already.

PS: JUST the match against Argentina is in that nice Talcahuano stadium.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 473
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 15 Feb 2017, 14:53

I won't attend this weekend's match versus Brazil.

I will try to attend the final two matches versus Canada and Chile.

User avatar
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri, 19 Feb 2016, 22:49
Location: Córdoba
National Flag:
ArgentinaArgentina

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby argie » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 14:01

Image

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 15:39

Is there a topscorers table?
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri, 19 Feb 2016, 22:49
Location: Córdoba
National Flag:
ArgentinaArgentina

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby argie » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 15:59

victorsra wrote:Is there a topscorers table?


Here: http://www.ultimaterugby.com/americas-r ... ampionship

25- Taylor Paris
23- Domingo Miotti
20- Mike Te'o
19- Benjamin Cima
19- Moises Duque
18- German Albanell
18- Fernando Luna
16- Shaun Davies
15- Sebastian Cancelliere
13- Robbie Povey

User avatar
Posts: 473
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 04 Mar 2017, 23:26

Congratulations to United States, who took revenge on Argentina to take the 2017 Americas Rugby Championship.

2016-17 ARC results:

1. Argentina XV: 8-2-0
2. United States: 6-2-2
3. Uruguay: 6-0-4
4. Canada: 4-0-6
5. Brazil: 3-0-7
6. Chile: 1-0-9

o- Argentina XV drew twice with United States, and defeated everyone else.
o- United States drew twice with Argentina, had away losses to Uruguay and Brazil, and won all other matches.
o- Uruguay lost twice to Argentina XV, had away losses to United States and Canada, and won all other matches.
o- Canada defeated Chile twice, had home wins over Uruguay and Brazil, and lost all other matches.
o- Brazil had home wins over United States, Canada and Chile, and lost all other matches.
o- Chile had a home win over Brazil, and lost all other matches.

User avatar
Posts: 445
Joined: Fri, 19 Feb 2016, 22:49
Location: Córdoba
National Flag:
ArgentinaArgentina

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby argie » Sat, 04 Mar 2017, 23:41

FINAL STANDINGS

1- USA, 22 pts.
2- Argentina XV, 21 pts.
3- Uruguay, 15 pts.
4- Brazil, 8 pts.
5- Canada, 8 pts.
6- Chile, 0 pts.

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Sun, 05 Mar 2017, 18:23

Here: http://www.ultimaterugby.com/americas-r ... ampionship

25- Taylor Paris
23- Domingo Miotti
20- Mike Te'o
19- Benjamin Cima
19- Moises Duque
18- German Albanell
18- Fernando Luna
16- Shaun Davies
15- Sebastian Cancelliere
13- Robbie Povey


Probably it is wrong. Ultimate Rugby showed many matches without the right scorers.

As I counted Moises Duque and Ben Cima are tied at the top with 43 points each. Am I right?
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Sun, 05 Mar 2017, 19:03

In fact I have just recounted based on USAR data and Cima has 39 points. WOW, this means Duque is the top scorer! Amazing.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1777
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 08 Mar 2017, 23:22

Now that the tournament is over, what has gone well and what needs to be fixed?

What has gone well:

-Brazil continues to show progress. Uruguay as well, to a lesser extent.
-Quality matches for the domestic talent in all countries
-Entertaining matches, sometimes unexpectedly

Needs work:

-Tournament absolutely needs a TMO. How can we get this in American club rugby but not at international level?
-Tournament needs a website with the time of each match clearly listed for each time zone.
-Need to make sure the matches don't overlap. I think this only happened once.
-Chile have some good stretches of play but don't seem to be making progress. Easily the worst team this year. They seem to be struggling a bit off the field too, unable to retain the talent they produce.

Undetermined:

-Will we get a second division with promotion/relegation playoffs against the first division? I think we will see the level of Paraguay (and by proxy the rest of the potential second division) in the upcoming RWCQs.
-How do we grow this tournament into something with full strength national teams? Why not see Argentina play as the Pumas for the first 2 weeks as a Super Rugby warmup?

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 00:13

-Tournament absolutely needs a TMO. How can we get this in American club rugby but not at international level?

What I've heard is that the only country opposed to TMO was Canada. Chile wanted. But it simply needs to change for 2018.

-Tournament needs a website with the time of each match clearly listed for each time zone.


And stats! Like the topscorers. It was a pretty amateur communications work from ARC. Everything was done individually by the Unions. But I believe ARC itself (in fact the Americas Rugby, former PARA) doesn't have a proper staff. Too new.

-Will we get a second division with promotion/relegation playoffs against the first division? I think we will see the level of Paraguay (and by proxy the rest of the potential second division) in the upcoming RWCQs.


I believe after 5 years, 2020. The tournament was created with the 6 nations unchanged for 5 years.

-How do we grow this tournament into something with full strength national teams? Why not see Argentina play as the Pumas for the first 2 weeks as a Super Rugby warmup?


I also heard it was Argentina that wanted the tournament in February/March and everybody just accepted. Let's remember the Argentina's Nacional de Clubes (National Championship) starts this week, March 11th, kicking off its 2017 club season. I believe UAR wanted to avoid any clash, as Argentina XV is formed by domestic players.
Last edited by victorsra on Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 00:39, edited 1 time in total.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 2927
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 00:21

I'm perfectly ok with Argentina using a second choice XV but I do believe they should be playing as full test matches with ranking points on the line. 6N teams have often sent second string teams down south in June with full test caps, as well as sending B grade test teams to Asia, the Pacific and North and South Americas during Lions tours, so I don't see any reason why Argentina shouldn't award test caps for the ARC.

Other notes
• The tournament needs more promotion and a bigger online and social media presence.
• Match overlapping needs to be eliminated. We're dealing with at least 6 time zones, it shouldn't be too difficult to schedule matches go they don't overlap.
• Chile's venues were much improved from last year
• Brazil are progressing faster than any team I can recall, although they screwed up against Argentina. Brazilians need to work on their conditioning and defence.
• Agree about Chile, they seem stuck.

Posts: 334
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 01:21

We didn't have all of our international player's available due to premiership commitments...thank you Nigel, you're a real peach, but I see you're already dragging the RFU down too!

I personally think the promotion in the US needs a lot of work. We need better venues, I don't think Dell Diamond is an awesome place. The folks at Dell Diamond have put on a great event, but I really want the match if it were going to be in the Austin Metro to be held at Myers Stadium, which would allow us fans to spill out onto 6th street in downtown for awesome food and adult beverages following the match. If we're going to host two tests, hosting both in Texas is not a smart idea.

The purpose of the ARC is to create an eventual Tier 1 competition for the Western Hemisphere, to do that we need the Pumas to play. However, the reason the Argentina XVs are in the ARC is because the rest of the teams are not near as good. But I will say in three years you'll see a different Eagles program. Also...were we in the ghetto for the Argentina-USA match? The fencing on the far side and the left try zone killed the view and the camera set up only gave us one angle, also, TMO!

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 02:10

Also...were we in the ghetto for the Argentina-USA match? The fencing on the far side and the left try zone killed the view and the camera set up only gave us one angle, also, TMO!

Because it is a soccer stadium. That is how looks like a Latin American "roots" soccer stadium. Fences and cement.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1777
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 02:40

TheStroBro wrote:We didn't have all of our international player's available due to premiership commitments...thank you Nigel, you're a real peach, but I see you're already dragging the RFU down too!

I personally think the promotion in the US needs a lot of work. We need better venues, I don't think Dell Diamond is an awesome place. The folks at Dell Diamond have put on a great event, but I really want the match if it were going to be in the Austin Metro to be held at Myers Stadium, which would allow us fans to spill out onto 6th street in downtown for awesome food and adult beverages following the match. If we're going to host two tests, hosting both in Texas is not a smart idea.

The purpose of the ARC is to create an eventual Tier 1 competition for the Western Hemisphere, to do that we need the Pumas to play. However, the reason the Argentina XVs are in the ARC is because the rest of the teams are not near as good. But I will say in three years you'll see a different Eagles program. Also...were we in the ghetto for the Argentina-USA match? The fencing on the far side and the left try zone killed the view and the camera set up only gave us one angle, also, TMO!


Not having all of the international players for this tournament doesn't have much to do with Nigel. It's a function of when the tournament is played. Clubs generally aren't going to be releasing players for 5 weeks at a time when they are already hit with losses of their top players to the 6N. It's an unfortunate reality but there isn't anyone in T2/T3 who gets their top players released for all 5 weeks during the 6N. The only way to break that is to compensate the clubs and/or players better for the players' time. That does tie into your second point...

Absolutely, USA Rugby needs some work on promotion, but I'm pretty sure the reason they host the matches in Texas is for cost reasons and the time of year. California and Florida are really the only other places you'd want to hold tests at that time of year and California already gets a lot of matches during the rest of the year, particularly NorCal. Florida has never produced a strong crowd, but they did go there last year with the 3rd match. San Diego could be a good option if SDSU builds a smaller stadium in conjunction with a potential MLS team. And maybe New Orleans is worth a look, particularly if you could time the match to coincide with Mardi Gras. That would be an epic weekend if they could swing it and wouldn't substantially add to the costs of travel from Florida.

Posts: 25
Joined: Mon, 30 May 2016, 22:43
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby SDyeti » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 07:09

Coloradoan wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:We didn't have all of our international player's available due to premiership commitments...thank you Nigel, you're a real peach, but I see you're already dragging the RFU down too!

I personally think the promotion in the US needs a lot of work. We need better venues, I don't think Dell Diamond is an awesome place. The folks at Dell Diamond have put on a great event, but I really want the match if it were going to be in the Austin Metro to be held at Myers Stadium, which would allow us fans to spill out onto 6th street in downtown for awesome food and adult beverages following the match. If we're going to host two tests, hosting both in Texas is not a smart idea.

Absolutely, USA Rugby needs some work on promotion, but I'm pretty sure the reason they host the matches in Texas is for cost reasons and the time of year. California and Florida are really the only other places you'd want to hold tests at that time of year and California already gets a lot of matches during the rest of the year, particularly NorCal. Florida has never produced a strong crowd, but they did go there last year with the 3rd match. San Diego could be a good option if SDSU builds a smaller stadium in conjunction with a potential MLS team. And maybe New Orleans is worth a look, particularly if you could time the match to coincide with Mardi Gras. That would be an epic weekend if they could swing it and wouldn't substantially add to the costs of travel from Florida.


I think the biggest factors in location of ARC matches are the Stadiums. They know that they aren't going to be pulling more than 10k to a match and so they have to find a small stadium that still meet turf standards. Those kinds of stadiums are things that the USA just doesn't have much of. We do have plenty of smaller stadiums but almost all of them are high school turf fields that are permanently marked for Gridiron Football. Most of the MLS places that have good turf are all at least 15k -25k seats. Those places probably cost too much and nobody wants another event where the place is less then half full. The Stadium at San Antonio was a great size (around 9k )but the wrong location IMHO. They only had 3k there and it definitely didn't look great on the broadcast.

I personally would love to see an ARC match in San Diego at Torrero Stadium (6k seats). Same place that the Breakers were using. I bet they could get a bigger crowd there than in San Antonio. They may even be able to sell it out with some of that better marketing that has also been mentioned. I mean heck SD is kind of a "Rugby town" and all.

Posts: 493
Joined: Thu, 28 Jul 2016, 19:33
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 09:48

It is a little too early to judge Chile and they look bad in part due to the exceptional progress of Brazil. If Brazil can get their fitness sorted out they could rapidly rise to challenge for a top 20 ranking - it was only when their fitness started to drop that they stopped competing with the Argentina XV.

Crowds are disappointing outside of Argentina, particularly in North America. Especially when we consider that in the debut season of PRO rugby last year they got a larger crowd in Ohio (not exactly a rugby hotbed) with little or no conventional TV coverage or advertising and two brand new teams with no traditional following. Massive room for improvement from the North American unions in their promotion of the tournament. Although credit to the USAR for getting it right on the field.

Getting a commentary team that can actually announce the correct winners of the tournament would also be a step forward.

Overall though, I think every nation involved in this benefits greatly in their own way and we got to see some entertaining rugby along the way. So a big thumbs up from me.

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 14:05

Argentiva as clever. They hosted their matches in cities where the Pumas never play. It was THE event.

In Brazil they were what they are expected to be, around 4-5k. Chile too, they never had more than what we saw. Uruguay I believe made it wrong to choose Maldonado... the Charrua would have a better crow IMO, and I strongly believe they should try Paysandu and Rivera (just for matches against Brazil).
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 334
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 14:39

We can and should easily be able to sell out an MLS sized stadium for a Test match. I understand that the name of the South American teams doesn't generate much interest, but this is Rugby. We'll see what MLR is able to put together.

The San Antonio stadium has a capacity of 8,000 but only 1,700 people attended the match. Much of this can be attributed with not de-conflicting the match time with TRU, as I recall the match was at 3CDST, so your pure fanbase is still out there playing their own match let alone socials. The match at Dell Diamond was better for the start time of 6 CDST, but I would have liked 7. Attendance was down from last year's Test at Dell Diamond by about 500.

Canada hosted well, they sold out their venues unlike the US.

Chile's facility for the US test was good for the size of the crowd. I would have preferred the nice looking soccer stadium (nicer by satellite).

I don't know about the previous Argentina tests this year, but the site for the US Match should never be used again. The Field was brutal and the sight lines with all of that fencing makes me think it's not a safe place for a Test.

User avatar
Posts: 473
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 15:12

victorsra wrote: Uruguay I believe made it wrong to choose Maldonado... the Charrua would have a better crow IMO.


In February weekends, Montevideans leave the city to Maldonado and Rocha.

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 16:50

Ok but at least on TV it looked like a bad attendance.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 126
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 21:13
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby ogrelord » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 19:02

victorsra wrote:In fact I have just recounted based on USAR data and Cima has 39 points. WOW, this means Duque is the top scorer! Amazing.


USAR data is incorrect (no surprise here). For example on their USA vs Chile game page Cima is listed with 6 conversions when he in fact kicked 7 (game score is correct, individual scoring does not add up).

ARN's table is accurate. Cima tied with Duque on 43.

victorsra wrote:What I've heard is that the only country opposed to TMO was Canada.


Where did you hear this? Why would Canada not want a TMO???

Posts: 2498
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby victorsra » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 19:11

From people involved in the organization. I don't know if Rugby Canada did not want to provide something or if it was Canadian broadcasters that did not want to adapt to the TMO for some reason. I won't blame anyone, but it looks like the problem was related to Canada's home matches. Lets hope they solve whatever the problem is to allow TMO for the 2018 season.

ESPN in Brazil, Argentina/Uruguay/Chile and USA and the respective Unions were ready for the TMO.

I believe the matter was with the broadcasters, because Langford stadium has received the Womens Sevens Series with no problems.

ARN's table is accurate. Cima tied with Duque on 43.


Great for Duque anyway.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 1777
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 20:53

Rugby Canada now complaining about using rankings points for the ARC, presumably in response to the criticism of the team's current all-time low world ranking: http://lethbridgeherald.com/sports/nati ... -arc-drop/

Posts: 493
Joined: Thu, 28 Jul 2016, 19:33
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: 2017 Americas Rugby Championship

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 21:06

The irony is that Canada have fallen so low they'd be heavily reliant on ranking points within the ARC to head back in the right direction in the rankings. They are unlikely to get these points playing Tier 1 nations.

I sympathise with the consequences of playing a weakened side, but it is way; way down the list of things Rugby Canada should be concerned about. Get yourself involved in professional rugby and then you can have more control over your players and challenge to be champion of the Americas. Better than removing ranking points and pretending every is alright.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Neptune and 7 guests