Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Pro12 expansion into North America

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 15:28

No one needs to be droped if you organize it in conferences.

With the talks with Georgians and Germans are true, they can have:

- Irish conferece: 4 teams
- Welsh conference: 4 teams
- Atlantic conference (Scotland + USA + Canada): 4 teams
- European conference (Italy + Germany + Georgia): 4 teams

6 matches inside groups + 12 outside = 18 matches.

It is good to split Italians, Germans and Georgian in a different good because you reduce the number of times they will be smashed. For Irish, Welsh or Scottish public it is aweful to see such uneven matches against the Italans now. It devalues the competition.

And this is fluid, you can ad more North American, Spanish teams, whatever, in the future.

In an ideal mid-term future it can have 6 groups of four (but JUST when the level of the game outside Irish and British franchses is ok and JUST when there is commercial viability):

- Irish Group,
- Welsh Group,
- Northern Group (Scotland + Germany/Belgium);
- Southern Group (Italy + Spain/Portugal);
- Eastern Group (Georgia, Romania, Russia);
- American Group (USA + Canada)


But PRO12 has two other big issues to solve: relocate Italian franchises to better markets in Italy and find a way to Welsh rugby. All Welsh PRO12 teams have less spectators than Swansea Citt FC alone. IMO Wales could revert it to club rugby and make a promotion/relegation playoff between its worst PRO12/16 team and the Welsh Premirship winners, as it is clear Welsh allegiances are with clubs and not fictional franchises. But that is another topic :P
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Horsehead » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 18:27

victorsra wrote:No one needs to be droped if you organize it in conferences.

With the talks with Georgians and Germans are true, they can have:

- Irish conferece: 4 teams
- Welsh conference: 4 teams
- Atlantic conference (Scotland + USA + Canada): 4 teams
- European conference (Italy + Germany + Georgia): 4 teams

6 matches inside groups + 12 outside = 18 matches.



I really like this idea, at first I couldn't see any faults with it but then I started thinking about it more.

For Ireland and Wales they will have to play the Italian, Georgian, German, US and Canadian teams once each, that is 6 games out of 18 against weaker opposition. So only 12 games against their fellow celts compared to the current 18. I know they want to play fewer games which they would be in this scenario but I don't imagine they will want to drop 6 of their more competitive matches whilst increasing those that would seem less attractive.

For Scotland it would be even worse. 8 matches against weaker teams.

Nice idea but I can't see it happening. I really want to see Georgia and Germany involved but I think our Celtic friends are more interested in their North American cousins and wouldn't be able to sell that many games against emerging teams to either the public or TV companies

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Feb 2017, 23:34

I agree and desagree.

It is true they will play less "more even" matches, but today PRO12 has 7 rounds played during 6N/November tests wndows. These "inteesting matches" become less interesting as teams are not with their real power. This means the number of rounds must be reduced anyway. And matches can be interesting if the fans are looking at the tables, as with groups of 4, with 2 advancing, things are more interesting for more time for everybody.

But the format can be changed anyway.

Another possibility with the same division of teams:

6 group matches + 4 matches against another group (changing every year) = 10 matches. The 2 best teams advance to two Final 8 competitions = +7 matches. The stronger Final 8 worthing Semifinals, the weaker Final 8 worthing just Champions Cup spots.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 05 Dec 2016, 04:28
Location: Indiana/Chicago, USA
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby MattFromAmerica » Fri, 24 Feb 2017, 09:54

My feeling is that first and foremost USA Rugby seeks to wash its hands of the messy PRO situation. Then it will regroup with a focus on supporting the domestic club competitions, college and youth rugby, continuing to consolidate the Eagles programs, and creating an increasingly attractive opportunity for Tier 1 teams to visit for test matches. These are all efforts that are starting to move in the right direction at the moment.

Depending on how quickly PRO Rugby is cut out of the picture, I think it is very realistic that the US and Canada each enter a Jaguares-style Pro12 team (domestic talent-heavy squad that feeds into the national team). The American team would be based on the East Coast, where Ireland is already scheduled for a test in New Jersey this summer. New York, Boston, Philadelphia and Washington DC all have the infrastructure and emerging rugby communities to support a few professional matches a year. The team could adopt American Revolutionary themes that would resonate with the northeastern states. Texas, California, Colorado/Utah, and Chicago/Midwest are the regions where test matches and/or national championships have already been hosted in recent years, and this would be a new venture conducive to the economy of the northeast in a literal and rugby-specific sense.

User avatar
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 05 Dec 2016, 04:28
Location: Indiana/Chicago, USA
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby MattFromAmerica » Fri, 24 Feb 2017, 10:15

Horsehead wrote:
victorsra wrote:No one needs to be droped if you organize it in conferences.

With the talks with Georgians and Germans are true, they can have:

- Irish conferece: 4 teams
- Welsh conference: 4 teams
- Atlantic conference (Scotland + USA + Canada): 4 teams
- European conference (Italy + Germany + Georgia): 4 teams

6 matches inside groups + 12 outside = 18 matches.



I really like this idea, at first I couldn't see any faults with it but then I started thinking about it more.

For Ireland and Wales they will have to play the Italian, Georgian, German, US and Canadian teams once each, that is 6 games out of 18 against weaker opposition. So only 12 games against their fellow celts compared to the current 18. I know they want to play fewer games which they would be in this scenario but I don't imagine they will want to drop 6 of their more competitive matches whilst increasing those that would seem less attractive.

For Scotland it would be even worse. 8 matches against weaker teams.

Nice idea but I can't see it happening. I really want to see Georgia and Germany involved but I think our Celtic friends are more interested in their North American cousins and wouldn't be able to sell that many games against emerging teams to either the public or TV companies


Right now Pro12 teams play 22 games per season. If this expansion happened, that number would likely be reduced to about 18 as play would be suspended during the Six Nations/ARC window.

I'm sure the US/Canada teams would be perfectly satisfied playing each other for 4 or even 6 of those matches. That leaves only 12 or 14 matches. That would only require a handful of the European teams to travel across the Atlantic each season, and this would alternate each year. The North American teams would then tour Europe for the remaining 6 or 7 weeks.

If the lopsided schedule that the North American teams play disqualifies them from eligibility for the playoffs, frankly I don't think it will really matter to anyone involved. Having the upper hand in the US/Canada rivalry will be enough of a prize, and the overall benefits of participating would be a HUGE step up for elite level rugby on this continent.

Posts: 72
Joined: Tue, 18 Nov 2014, 15:06
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby honestly_united » Fri, 24 Feb 2017, 17:30

I think with 16 teams, 2 conferences of 8 would be better. Play home and away against your conferences for 14, then another game against the teams in the opposite conference for 22 games same as now.

Keep all the teams from each country together so you have the local derbies.
Ie 4 irish 2 Italian, US & Canada then 4 welsh 2 Scottish and German and Georgian.

User avatar
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Horsehead » Fri, 24 Feb 2017, 21:44

honestly_united wrote:I think with 16 teams, 2 conferences of 8 would be better. Play home and away against your conferences for 14, then another game against the teams in the opposite conference for 22 games same as now.

Keep all the teams from each country together so you have the local derbies.
Ie 4 irish 2 Italian, US & Canada then 4 welsh 2 Scottish and German and Georgian.


Nice idea but then you have the problem of it being 22 games when we know they want to reduce it. So how about this:

4 Conferences

1 Irish
2 Welsh
3 Scottish/Italian
4 Emerging Nations - Canada/US/Germany/Georgia

Everyone plays the teams in their conference home and away for 6 Matches (and derbies)

Everyone plays everyone else home or away for another 12

18 matches total, 4 less than the current 22
You only play the emerging nations once each for 4 games in total
You get all your local derbies
Top team in each conference plus next 4 best qualify for the quarters

Boom! I think I've cracked it. How do I patent this? :D

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Sat, 25 Feb 2017, 04:02

4 Conferences

1 Irish
2 Welsh
3 Scottish/Italian
4 Emerging Nations - Canada/US/Germany/Georgia

Everyone plays the teams in their conference home and away for 6 Matches (and derbies)

Everyone plays everyone else home or away for another 12

18 matches total, 4 less than the current 22
You only play the emerging nations once each for 4 games in total
You get all your local derbies
Top team in each conference plus next 4 best qualify for the quarters

Boom! I think I've cracked it. How do I patent this? :D


Have a look 6 posts before. That is exactly what I proposed. The only difference is that I put North Americans together with the Scots.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 733
Joined: Thu, 17 Jul 2014, 10:29
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Horsehead » Sat, 25 Feb 2017, 07:37

victorsra wrote:
4 Conferences

1 Irish
2 Welsh
3 Scottish/Italian
4 Emerging Nations - Canada/US/Germany/Georgia

Everyone plays the teams in their conference home and away for 6 Matches (and derbies)

Everyone plays everyone else home or away for another 12

18 matches total, 4 less than the current 22
You only play the emerging nations once each for 4 games in total
You get all your local derbies
Top team in each conference plus next 4 best qualify for the quarters

Boom! I think I've cracked it. How do I patent this? :D


Have a look 6 posts before. That is exactly what I proposed. The only difference is that I put North Americans together with the Scots.


Jeez, I even commented on it, my brain is like a sieve! I liked it then and I like it now!

User avatar
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 05 Dec 2016, 04:28
Location: Indiana/Chicago, USA
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby MattFromAmerica » Sat, 25 Feb 2017, 07:48

The proposals I'm seeing here for conference structure simply don't work. You cannot force any of the European teams into a conference with the North American teams or the Georgian team. They would never agree to this structure because of the logistical costs. The only reasonable solution is spreading the burden of traveling to North America or Georgia across the existing Pro12 teams. No conferences are necessary.

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Sat, 25 Feb 2017, 14:06

Jeez, I even commented on it, my brain is like a sieve! I liked it then and I like it now!


HAHAHA relax, I won't sue anybody for a patent. And PRO12 won't give us money anyway :(

The proposals I'm seeing here for conference structure simply don't work. You cannot force any of the European teams into a conference with the North American teams or the Georgian team. They would never agree to this structure because of the logistical costs. The only reasonable solution is spreading the burden of traveling to North America or Georgia across the existing Pro12 teams. No conferences are necessary


PRO12 wants to reduce the number of matches, not expand, it is clear. They want to avoid clashes with national teams matches. Therefore you can't make a round robin with 14 to 16 teams...
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon, 05 Dec 2016, 04:28
Location: Indiana/Chicago, USA
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby MattFromAmerica » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 01:02

victorsra wrote:
PRO12 wants to reduce the number of matches, not expand, it is clear. They want to avoid clashes with national teams matches. Therefore you can't make a round robin with 14 to 16 teams...


I am not advocating a round robin. There are a ton of options other than round robin or rigid conferences.

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 04:55

Like what?
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 860
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 05:05

MattFromAmerica wrote:
victorsra wrote:
PRO12 wants to reduce the number of matches, not expand, it is clear. They want to avoid clashes with national teams matches. Therefore you can't make a round robin with 14 to 16 teams...


I am not advocating a round robin. There are a ton of options other than round robin or rigid conferences.


It will have to be conferences. It's the only real feasible way to manage trans-continental leagues. Otherwise the travel and thus the crossing of multiple timezones (which are the biggest killer) becomes just ridiculous. They should learn from SR's mistake with lumping the Sunwolves in with the SA group when logic screams they should be in the Aus conference while the Jaguares should be in the NZ conference due to shorter travel requirements.

If logic prevails (and that's a big if) then depending on whether they accept the bids from either Georgia or Germany or both then the Pro 16 Atlantic conference could be the 4 Irish, 2 Scottish plus the two Nth American and the Pro 16 Europe conference would be the four Welsh, two Italian, Georgia and Germany.

Posts: 72
Joined: Tue, 18 Nov 2014, 15:06
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby honestly_united » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 09:09

Working Class Rugger wrote:
MattFromAmerica wrote:
victorsra wrote:
PRO12 wants to reduce the number of matches, not expand, it is clear. They want to avoid clashes with national teams matches. Therefore you can't make a round robin with 14 to 16 teams...


I am not advocating a round robin. There are a ton of options other than round robin or rigid conferences.


If logic prevails (and that's a big if) then depending on whether they accept the bids from either Georgia or Germany or both then the Pro 16 Atlantic conference could be the 4 Irish, 2 Scottish plus the two Nth American and the Pro 16 Europe conference would be the four Welsh, two Italian, Georgia and Germany.


Although that conference makes the most sense geographically, you have the situation of having 5 of the 6 top teams (4 Irish and Glasgow) in one conference and the other being seen as being noticeably weaker.

Also not sure where the talk of less matches is coming from. I think a regular season of 22 games is about right. Its not great having so many games during the 6 Nations and AI (and as a Glasgow fan we are hit hardest) and it does add costs due to having bloated squads to cover the games, but it also helps give more game time to the younger players, as otherwise they would only be getting games when others were injured or being deliberately rested.

Also on the travel I am sure the pro 12 could help out covering the additional cost of travel, or to set up the fixture list to so you would play US & Canadian team away in one trip, and also the they would play the 2 scottish, or 2 Irish away on consecutive weekeds

Posts: 132
Joined: Wed, 28 Oct 2015, 12:36

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby DRL » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 09:30

Forget about conferences and divisions and different tables and latters.
Keep it simple.
Lets say we have a 16 team League.
PRO 12 plus 2 from North America and 2 from Europe (Georgia, Germany, who knows)
Each Team plays the other ones. -> 15 matches ( You switch home and away the next year)
Plus 3 matches against derby opponents or played after the ‘weighted rule' (from the AFL)
Or you have one "Magic weekend" in the USA for example to promote the League in the new area.
You have one table with the best 6 qualify for the finals.
With the SEMI-FINALS AND the FINAl played at predeterminated venues.
1+2 go to the semis automaticaly.
3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 are the qualifiers.

Thats 18 matches in the League plus 3 rounds of Play-Offs.

Posts: 860
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 09:44

DRL wrote:Forget about conferences and divisions and different tables and latters.
Keep it simple.
Lets say we have a 16 team League.
PRO 12 plus 2 from North America and 2 from Europe (Georgia, Germany, who knows)
Each Team plays the other ones. -> 15 matches ( You switch home and away the next year)
Plus 3 matches against derby opponents or played after the ‘weighted rule' (from the AFL)
Or you have one "Magic weekend" in the USA for example to promote the League in the new area.
You have one table with the best 6 qualify for the finals.
With the SEMI-FINALS AND the FINAl played at predeterminated venues.
1+2 go to the semis automaticaly.
3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5 are the qualifiers.

Thats 18 matches in the League plus 3 rounds of Play-Offs.


Super Rugby squads only play 15 games. So why not the Pro 12? The European based squads could still play in the Champions Cup structures external to the league. In order to fit teams from NA into the schedule they need to seriously consider altering their season. Toronto is freezing during the winter and BMO is not getting the supposed roof. The solution of playing in Vancouver is just silly when trying to build local fan supoort.

But I'm coming at this from a SR fan perspective. I'd love for the Pro 12 to line up with SR. Mostly because I think it would offer a great opportunity for both to collaborate to create a World Club Championship Series or game. If the global season issue is sorted out and the June Test window is moved back to July a window could be carved out.

Posts: 193
Joined: Sun, 31 Aug 2014, 11:36
National Flag:
PakistanPakistan

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby jservuk » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 10:07

... Meanwhile ... Rugby League has started to walk the walk, small steps, but ....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... gby-league

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... but-siddal

Posts: 860
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 10:22

jservuk wrote:... Meanwhile ... Rugby League has started to walk the walk, small steps, but ....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... gby-league

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... but-siddal


I don't know about this venture. He seems to be already looking to enter more teams here and there before the Wolfpack has played a full season. Focus on getting through the 1st season before planning a team in Montreal and apparently Halifax. In the 2nd article they only beat a 4th tier team by 12 points. They still have a ways to go to remain competitive in their level first.

Posts: 193
Joined: Sun, 31 Aug 2014, 11:36
National Flag:
PakistanPakistan

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby jservuk » Sun, 26 Feb 2017, 14:47

Working Class Rugger wrote:
jservuk wrote:... Meanwhile ... Rugby League has started to walk the walk, small steps, but ....

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/ ... gby-league

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... but-siddal


I don't know about this venture. He seems to be already looking to enter more teams here and there before the Wolfpack has played a full season. Focus on getting through the 1st season before planning a team in Montreal and apparently Halifax. In the 2nd article they only beat a 4th tier team by 12 points. They still have a ways to go to remain competitive in their level first.


All fair points, but it shows that whilst one lot are arguing about the how to do it, the other lot are just getting o with it and seeing where they go. It's always good to see progress.

Posts: 345
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2014, 20:31
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Figaro » Mon, 27 Feb 2017, 08:53

victorsra wrote:

But PRO12 has two other big issues to solve: relocate Italian franchises to better markets in Italy and find a way to Welsh rugby. All Welsh PRO12 teams have less spectators than Swansea Citt FC alone. IMO Wales could revert it to club rugby and make a promotion/relegation playoff between its worst PRO12/16 team and the Welsh Premirship winners, as it is clear Welsh allegiances are with clubs and not fictional franchises. But that is another topic :P


This is the absolute last thing you would want to do. Regional attendances may be low but they're higher than the club's used to be. Comparing with Swansea FC, who play in the wealthiest and most prestigious sports club competition in the world, is never going to be favourable. The absolute best case scenario with clubs would be exactly what we have now, I. E. 3-4 semi competitive sides based in the big population centres.

User avatar
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 20:45

victorsra wrote:- Irish conferece: 4 teams
- Welsh conference: 4 teams
- Atlantic conference (Scotland + USA + Canada): 4 teams
- European conference (Italy + Germany + Georgia): 4 teams

6 matches inside groups + 12 outside = 18 matches.


That sounds interesting.

User avatar
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 20:46

Horsehead wrote:For Scotland it would be even worse. 8 matches against weaker teams.

Scotland could ask to be paired with Italy rather than North America.

Posts: 2344
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 21:43

It the conferences are not interesting, it is possible to have the 16 teams playing 15 rounds + 1 further derby = 16 matches + playoffs. I would be prefer the NRL-style of playoffs.

PRO: it makes ALL rounds to be played with full-strenght squads, no clashes with national teams with no or very few matches in November, February and early March.

CON: Less derbies for Irish and Welsh teams. However, in November/6N rounds they could play their own interprovincial competitions, without national team players. It is not the same, of course.

That is the only other solution.

A second division has no economic viability IMO.

About Canada, isn't Rogers Centre domed with natural grass and empty in baseball's offseason? And in the most difficult winter months, isn't it possible to try Montreal's Olympic stadium? However with just 8 home matches it is possible to arrange and put the Toronto side playing at home in September, October, March and April. Difficult to say if this would be bad for the team's business in December and January, put that is a possibility. They would "tour" Europe in December and January, that's it.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

User avatar
Posts: 1294
Joined: Fri, 16 May 2014, 17:25
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Pro12 expansion into North America

Postby Buffalo » Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 23:46

Everyone is suggesting 16 teams when it's much more likely Pro12 either chooses to cross the Atlantic or stick in Europe. I can't see them expanding to both. It would just add a lot of extra travel while dropping the quality of the league too much at once. As much as I'd throw money at a Canadian pro team and watch their games on TV, even if I think it a stupid venture, I have to say European expansion makes way more sense. Especially if Georgia partners with Spain to have a team based out of one of their hotbeds. Ya it would suck for Georgian fans but would probably be a lot more enticing for the Pro12 travel and market wise and give a helping hand to the Spanish union.

victorsra wrote:About Canada, isn't Rogers Centre domed with natural grass and empty in baseball's offseason? And in the most difficult winter months, isn't it possible to try Montreal's Olympic stadium? However with just 8 home matches it is possible to arrange and put the Toronto side playing at home in September, October, March and April. Difficult to say if this would be bad for the team's business in December and January, put that is a possibility. They would "tour" Europe in December and January, that's it.


There is like literally no way the Toronto Blue Jays let a rugby team play in the Rogers Centre. They are the 3rd biggest team in Canada(2nd based in Toronto) and pretty much forced the Argonauts out so they could have it too themselves. Not that the Argonauts weren't happy to leave for a much better venue in BMO Field. Even if they were willing to share, the building is so big that the atmosphere would be absolutely dreadful even if they miraculously got 10k folks to show up every game. Add in the MLB season runs from April through September with the Jays being a regular post season threat meaning they could be playing into October as well. And don't even get started on Olympic Stadium. I get you're not Canadian so you don't know about that craphole but that building is absolutely horrendous. It is old, falling apart and I believe is legally required to be shutdown at the first sign of snow because the roof can't support it.

I would like to see whoever would be funding P12 Canada pair up with the Whitecaps ownership group to either renovate and expand Swangard or build a new venue somewhere designed for soccer and rugby with an 8k-10k seat capacity. Swangard itself is a pretty lackluster venue at the moment and needs some renovations to bring it up to a proper standard. But a capacity of like 4k-5k with room for expansion makes it a decent starter venue and probably the most logical spot in Canada at the moment.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], SANE17 and 13 guests