Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Possible Repechege Teams

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Neptune » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 09:27

The Do wrote:
Neptune wrote:
The Do wrote:
Osmanperalta wrote:Why someone are against 2 x 2 leg playoffs????
I dont understand this guy!!


I would prefer the 5 repecharge teams play in a mini-league. Each team plays 2 games in the June window, in 2018, one home and one away, 2 games in the November window. The winner of the league qualifies for the RWC. This allows the best team to qualify.


I think you mean 4 teams


Neptune, Didn't you write this below

Africa - Either Kenya or Zimbabwe
Asia - Either Hong Kong or South Korea
Europe - Germany, Russia or Spain
Oceania - Fiji or Cook Islands
Americas - Uruguay or Canada

The above indications are just opinion based. Any other corrections or opinions are welcome. Thankyou :)


Yes, i did, but for some reason the teams at the end of the day come to 4. I dunno what happens to the fifth team. Talk of vanishing unicorns and houdini acts. :lol:, I am not sure, but I think Oceania and Europe 2 normally have a playoff to reduce the teams to 4. Last repechege they were 4.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby antlat » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 10:03

The Repechage tournament will consist of the following four teams,

1. Africa 2. (Kenya or Zimbabwe if Namibia qualify)
2. Americas 3 (Canada or Uruguay)
3. Loser of Europe 2 vs Pacific Nations Cup 3rd place (Spain, Russia or Tonga)
4. Winner of Asia 1 vs Oceania Cup Champion play off (South Korea, Hong Kong, Cook Islands or Papua New Guinea)

My guess is Spain, Canada, Hong Kong and Kenya.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Silver Fox » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 10:42

I wouldn't mind having a repechage tournament involving Hong Kong, Namibia, Romania and Canada.
It's not impossible and would be an enormous statement about increasing competitiveness of tier 2 rugby having 3 RWC regulars being dropped to the repechages.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Neptune » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 11:14

Silver Fox wrote:I wouldn't mind having a repechage tournament involving Hong Kong, Namibia, Romania and Canada.
It's not impossible and would be an enormous statement about increasing competitiveness of tier 2 rugby having 3 RWC regulars being dropped to the repechages.


Hehehe, I would actually love that. If we can just beat the Welschwistas in Windhoek, we are home and dry. :thumbup: :)

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 11:14

From RWC perspective you'd want an increase of competitiveness of T2 vs T1 to show the path to other T3 nations and have a reason to ask for an expansion of the number of teams in order to have more places for T2/T3 sides. This is the gap that should be closed and team replacing those you mentioned are not up to the task now to put any problem to T1 sides or top to T2 (Japan, Fiji, Georgia). Mind you, during RWC performance of T2 sides is better because of more training time together and players being released by their clubs.

What you want is not an increase of competitiveness from RWC perspective but a more even ground in T2 which should be earned on field and with effort.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Silver Fox » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 13:03

amz wrote:From RWC perspective you'd want an increase of competitiveness of T2 vs T1 to show the path to other T3 nations and have a reason to ask for an expansion of the number of teams in order to have more places for T2/T3 sides. This is the gap that should be closed and team replacing those you mentioned are not up to the task now to put any problem to T1 sides or top to T2 (Japan, Fiji, Georgia). Mind you, during RWC performance of T2 sides is better because of more training time together and players being released by their clubs.

What you want is not an increase of competitiveness from RWC perspective but a more even ground in T2 which should be earned on field and with effort.
I totally agree with your first line but I am not sure about the rest. I really hope there will be more opportunities for tier 2 nations to play tier 1 and that those who benefit is based on rankings and not on if they have played in recent World Cups.

Getting to see some other names in this mix than the same 18 over and over would be a sign of healthy competition and a signal to the tier 1 public that there is more rugby in the world then those nations they get to see every World Cup. That is all I meant. It doesn't compare to our common wish of tier 2 being competitive and providing more and more tier 1 upsets.
btw. I am not convinced that those I mentioned will be less competitive in a RWC, exactly for the reasons you gave.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Sables4EVA » Sat, 25 Mar 2017, 13:57

Neptune wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:I wouldn't mind having a repechage tournament involving Hong Kong, Namibia, Romania and Canada.
It's not impossible and would be an enormous statement about increasing competitiveness of tier 2 rugby having 3 RWC regulars being dropped to the repechages.


Hehehe, I would actually love that. If we can just beat the Welschwistas in Windhoek, we are home and dry. :thumbup: :)


Unless of course, Zimbabwe do exactly the same thing and defeat Kenya, leaving the Simbas on 3rd. :D

But speaking as a lover of African rugby, the best thing for the continent is for either Zimbabwe or Kenya to win the automatic spot and the other to make the repechage and even qualify by that route leaving Namibia out completely.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Neptune » Sun, 26 Mar 2017, 15:42

Sables4EVA wrote:
Neptune wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:I wouldn't mind having a repechage tournament involving Hong Kong, Namibia, Romania and Canada.
It's not impossible and would be an enormous statement about increasing competitiveness of tier 2 rugby having 3 RWC regulars being dropped to the repechages.


Hehehe, I would actually love that. If we can just beat the Welschwistas in Windhoek, we are home and dry. :thumbup: :)


Unless of course, Zimbabwe do exactly the same thing and defeat Kenya, leaving the Simbas on 3rd. :D

But speaking as a lover of African rugby, the best thing for the continent is for either Zimbabwe or Kenya to win the automatic spot and the other to make the repechage and even qualify by that route leaving Namibia out completely.


Sables4EVA, Please, let's not go down that road again. Lourens Van Der Merwe came with his mind set to ruin the Simbas. Everyone in Africa knew that he made sure we didn't make it. The Makis and the Ugandans even wanted a new winner apart from the Welschwistas year in year out. You even acknowledged this in a previous post. If the playing field was level, we would have qualified for our first RWC. Besides, apart from Kenya and Uganda, all other strong African sides have tasted the RWC. The Simbas XVs are very hungry to taste an RWC debut, and im sure we will make it for the RWC 2019 in Japan.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Sun, 26 Mar 2017, 15:55

Silver Fox wrote:
amz wrote:From RWC perspective you'd want an increase of competitiveness of T2 vs T1 to show the path to other T3 nations and have a reason to ask for an expansion of the number of teams in order to have more places for T2/T3 sides. This is the gap that should be closed and team replacing those you mentioned are not up to the task now to put any problem to T1 sides or top to T2 (Japan, Fiji, Georgia). Mind you, during RWC performance of T2 sides is better because of more training time together and players being released by their clubs.

What you want is not an increase of competitiveness from RWC perspective but a more even ground in T2 which should be earned on field and with effort.
I totally agree with your first line but I am not sure about the rest. I really hope there will be more opportunities for tier 2 nations to play tier 1 and that those who benefit is based on rankings and not on if they have played in recent World Cups.

Getting to see some other names in this mix than the same 18 over and over would be a sign of healthy competition and a signal to the tier 1 public that there is more rugby in the world then those nations they get to see every World Cup. That is all I meant. It doesn't compare to our common wish of tier 2 being competitive and providing more and more tier 1 upsets.
btw. I am not convinced that those I mentioned will be less competitive in a RWC, exactly for the reasons you gave.


Romania qualified ar repechage for 2011 RWC yet the said event didn't triggered/showed what you are looking for :)

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Neptune » Mon, 27 Mar 2017, 07:39

Neptune wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:
Neptune wrote:
Silver Fox wrote:I wouldn't mind having a repechage tournament involving Hong Kong, Namibia, Romania and Canada.
It's not impossible and would be an enormous statement about increasing competitiveness of tier 2 rugby having 3 RWC regulars being dropped to the repechages.


Hehehe, I would actually love that. If we can just beat the Welschwistas in Windhoek, we are home and dry. :thumbup: :)


Unless of course, Zimbabwe do exactly the same thing and defeat Kenya, leaving the Simbas on 3rd. :D

But speaking as a lover of African rugby, the best thing for the continent is for either Zimbabwe or Kenya to win the automatic spot and the other to make the repechage and even qualify by that route leaving Namibia out completely.


I don't have a problem with Namibia going to the RWC. The only problem is, for the last 5 World Cups they have played in, they go as participants instead of title contenders. Namibia is not a serious team. When Kenya broke into the top creme of 7s teams, we said we will go there as title contenders. Because of our strong fighting spirit and will, we are now automatic qualifiers for the RWC 7s, creating more spaces for other African teams. When Namibia decide to be serious and go in as automatic qualifiers, they will make the task for other African countries easier, since they will create more slots.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 27 Mar 2017, 12:19

Neptune wrote:
I don't have a problem with Namibia going to the RWC. The only problem is, for the last 5 World Cups they have played in, they go as participants instead of title contenders. Namibia is not a serious team. When Kenya broke into the top creme of 7s teams, we said we will go there as title contenders. Because of our strong fighting spirit and will, we are now automatic qualifiers for the RWC 7s, creating more spaces for other African teams. When Namibia decide to be serious and go in as automatic qualifiers, they will make the task for other African countries easier, since they will create more slots.


I envy your optimism, but this 15s not 7s. There is a reason the world cup was just won by 4 different teams. That's also about the number of team with serious title chances every world cup. Also there won't be more slots for African countries as we just learned in Europe.

Romania was not qualified through the repechage. It was qualified as Europe2 behind Georgia who was Europe1. They took one qualification place away after Georgia became an automatic qualifier.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Mon, 27 Mar 2017, 12:29


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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 11:06

amz wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Rugby_World_Cup_%E2%80%93_repechage_qualification


That's not the last world cup :D
For 2015 Romania qualified directly.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 11:17

Nobody mentioned a specific WC. My point was that different teams to repechage is not exactly an indicator of what SilverFox suggested.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 12:21

amz wrote:Nobody mentioned a specific WC. My point was that different teams to repechage is not exactly an indicator of what SilverFox suggested.


What would be an indicator?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 12:25

... increase of competitiveness in T2.

indicator
ˈɪndɪkeɪtə/Submit
noun
1.
a thing that indicates the state or level of something.
"car ownership is frequently used as an indicator of affluence"
synonyms: measure, gauge, barometer, index, mark, sign, signal; More
2.
a device providing specific information on the state or condition of something, in particular:

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 13:20

Thanks, I had latin in school for five years and some more in university, so I know what indicator means.

What would be an indicator for you that the competitiveness in T2 is rising? You know what I am aiming at. What would have to happen on this level that World Rugby will HAVE to expand the RWC.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby amz » Tue, 28 Mar 2017, 13:54

I've said it above, smaller margin and more competitive games of T1 teams with T2 teams. Look at Portugal, they've made it to WC yet now they are relegated. Few wins over better T2 sides didn't showed a general raise of competitivness in T2. This may happen only because at one point you have a good generation of players.

I said it before on a thread here, I don't think an extension of RWC is usable for development of rugby worldwide now. Let's take Germany's case. Although it looks like the side is improving, I think it will still be trashed at RWC time by better T2 sides (Japan, Georgia, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa) which may be a set back for rugby in Germany.

What I think will raise the competitiveness of T2 would mainly be to raise profile of T2 tournaments like REC/America's 6N, even creating new ones and regular tests vs T1 sides. This is what must have be done before enlarging RWC. A qualification tournament which would simply change teams every 4 years is meaningless if you look at the big picture.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby rusty_lock » Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 17:28

Buffalo wrote:This Canadian pessimism is too much. Like I'm not happy with the current state of our domestic game but a country like Uruguay isn't going to beat us in a 2 legged series in 2017. I have worries for 2023 and beyond as the South Americans continue to improve with the aid of Argentina but we have more than enough class in our top side right now to make it to 2019 as Americas 2, if not upsetting the Yanks for Americas 1.

Also I don't know why Neptune has Fiji listed as a Repechage team when they should easily finish as Oceania 1 ahead of Samoa and Tonga.
What result on the field since those heady days of 2013 leads you to this optimistic conclusion. We just lost to Brazil and are now 23rd on the world rankings!

We have lost to every quality side we have played since 2014 with the exception of Namibia, Russia and an under strength Georgia. This pessimism is not to much, it's not enough. This team and the National union in general is in complete and utter crisis. The blazer brigade can't even spell check documents they produce for their AGM prior publishing them for all the world to see on the internet. Uruguay will beat us! We have no reason to believe differently.

2017 Test Record
1W 3L including a loss to Brazil, thank God for the Chileans

2016
4W 6L Not a single one of the wins was against a country that was ranked above us at that time.

2015
1W 10L The only win was against an under strength Georgia.

2014
1W 5L The only win that year was against the mighty Namibians!

In that same time period we are 0-5 against the US and 1-1 against Uruguay. Uruguay is at least showing improvements. They had a close loss in the ARC this year in US and beat the US in Uruguay last year.

I have been a fan and following since before the first ever world cup. I see no reason to be optimistic. There is no vision and no plan, and until there is a complete house cleaning of the RC administration, no future.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Apr 2017, 20:27

I think Africa and Europe are the continents most likely to produce a new team in 2019 RWC. As much as I think Brazil can do another step forward I believe we are a nation for 2023. With all respect to Namibia and Uruguay,it would be good to see Kenya and Spain (via Repechage) in 2019. It would give new air to the tournament. And yes, reading Canadian posters it is clear the Canucks will deal with a considerable risk to be out in 2023.
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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 03 Apr 2017, 02:13

rusty_lock wrote:
Buffalo wrote:This Canadian pessimism is too much. Like I'm not happy with the current state of our domestic game but a country like Uruguay isn't going to beat us in a 2 legged series in 2017. I have worries for 2023 and beyond as the South Americans continue to improve with the aid of Argentina but we have more than enough class in our top side right now to make it to 2019 as Americas 2, if not upsetting the Yanks for Americas 1.

Also I don't know why Neptune has Fiji listed as a Repechage team when they should easily finish as Oceania 1 ahead of Samoa and Tonga.
What result on the field since those heady days of 2013 leads you to this optimistic conclusion. We just lost to Brazil and are now 23rd on the world rankings!

We have lost to every quality side we have played since 2014 with the exception of Namibia, Russia and an under strength Georgia. This pessimism is not to much, it's not enough. This team and the National union in general is in complete and utter crisis. The blazer brigade can't even spell check documents they produce for their AGM prior publishing them for all the world to see on the internet. Uruguay will beat us! We have no reason to believe differently.

2017 Test Record
1W 3L including a loss to Brazil, thank God for the Chileans

2016
4W 6L Not a single one of the wins was against a country that was ranked above us at that time.

2015
1W 10L The only win was against an under strength Georgia.

2014
1W 5L The only win that year was against the mighty Namibians!

In that same time period we are 0-5 against the US and 1-1 against Uruguay. Uruguay is at least showing improvements. They had a close loss in the ARC this year in US and beat the US in Uruguay last year.

I have been a fan and following since before the first ever world cup. I see no reason to be optimistic. There is no vision and no plan, and until there is a complete house cleaning of the RC administration, no future.


Oh those heady days from 2013: http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/30 ... post572071

BTW, using the Brazil result as evidence for anything involving full strength national teams is asinine. The overall results in the ARC do indicate that there is something wrong with Rugby Canada in terms of the depth of talent and the young talent being produced, but they'll be fine for the RWCQs. Hell, even though I'd have the Eagles as strong favorites, I don't think it's inconceivable that Canada could beat us. I think it's highly unlikely you lose to Uruguay on aggregate with a full strength squad.

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Re: Possible Repechege Teams

Postby rusty_lock » Mon, 03 Apr 2017, 07:20

Coloradoan wrote:
rusty_lock wrote:
Buffalo wrote:This Canadian pessimism is too much. Like I'm not happy with the current state of our domestic game but a country like Uruguay isn't going to beat us in a 2 legged series in 2017. I have worries for 2023 and beyond as the South Americans continue to improve with the aid of Argentina but we have more than enough class in our top side right now to make it to 2019 as Americas 2, if not upsetting the Yanks for Americas 1.

Also I don't know why Neptune has Fiji listed as a Repechage team when they should easily finish as Oceania 1 ahead of Samoa and Tonga.
What result on the field since those heady days of 2013 leads you to this optimistic conclusion. We just lost to Brazil and are now 23rd on the world rankings!

We have lost to every quality side we have played since 2014 with the exception of Namibia, Russia and an under strength Georgia. This pessimism is not to much, it's not enough. This team and the National union in general is in complete and utter crisis. The blazer brigade can't even spell check documents they produce for their AGM prior publishing them for all the world to see on the internet. Uruguay will beat us! We have no reason to believe differently.

2017 Test Record
1W 3L including a loss to Brazil, thank God for the Chileans

2016
4W 6L Not a single one of the wins was against a country that was ranked above us at that time.

2015
1W 10L The only win was against an under strength Georgia.

2014
1W 5L The only win that year was against the mighty Namibians!

In that same time period we are 0-5 against the US and 1-1 against Uruguay. Uruguay is at least showing improvements. They had a close loss in the ARC this year in US and beat the US in Uruguay last year.

I have been a fan and following since before the first ever world cup. I see no reason to be optimistic. There is no vision and no plan, and until there is a complete house cleaning of the RC administration, no future.


Oh those heady days from 2013: http://www.therugbyforum.com/threads/30 ... post572071

BTW, using the Brazil result as evidence for anything involving full strength national teams is asinine. The overall results in the ARC do indicate that there is something wrong with Rugby Canada in terms of the depth of talent and the young talent being produced, but they'll be fine for the RWCQs. Hell, even though I'd have the Eagles as strong favorites, I don't think it's inconceivable that Canada could beat us. I think it's highly unlikely you lose to Uruguay on aggregate with a full strength squad.

I very definitely have words to eat. I eat them bitterly believe me.

I truly had hope at that time but the national union has so completely and utterly FUBAR'd everything they have put their hand to in the last decade that every shred of hope I once had has been ground out of me. 2013 was just a blip on a disamal record of failure that goes back so far you need a telescope to see the beginning of it. Even the Vancouver 7's event that is has been wildly successful from a commercial perspective can't be credited to RC. They have farmed out the management of most of the event to former VANOC people who know how to run a big league event. RC has had to do very little with actual event.

I truly hope you are right and I am wrong but I fear not. At the heart of it we are completely unable to recruit great athletes and develop them into great rugby players. Any player that attains any success has, from a RC perspective, happened by accident rather than by design. Until that changes pray that we continue to get tests against the chileans. At least that way we can notch a win or two a year.

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