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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

Postby suofficer » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 13:33


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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 13:45

suofficer wrote:http://www.worldrugby.org/news/232038?utm_source=m.facebook.com&utm_medium=referral


Looks great on paper.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 14:00

Looks pretty meh to me. Six Nations already host T2 in November, but prefer PIs and Japan over others. And a move of a window to July will increase player availability problems for T2 since it will clash with French preseason.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 14:08

Sounds to good to be true..:) It should be a small asterix somewhere.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Horsehead » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 14:20

Yeah, promising but I would like to see some schedules released

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 14:23

Armchair Fan wrote:Looks pretty meh to me. Six Nations already host T2 in November, but prefer PIs and Japan over others. And a move of a window to July will increase player availability problems for T2 since it will clash with French preseason.



Quite 110 "record" T1 v T2 tests over a 12 year period is 9 per season. For all T2 nations combined. Last year by my count there were 11 of these fixtures. The proof will be when we see the actual schedules.

Romania and Georgia hosting 6N side is clear progress as is England and France going to Pacific Islands (presume Samoa and Fiji).

Fucking up my own domestic season though is a massive negative for me and one I will be very interested to see how Prem rugby spin such a massive defeat for themselves. Once again World Rugby favours the southern hemisphere by prioritising Super Rugby over domestic European rugby.

Also from a business perspective announcing anything 15 years before it happens is totally barmy. Why on earth do they need to arrange touring schedule's so far in advance? The players likely to play these games are 7 years old at the moment!

More a re-arranging of deck chairs with some improvements and a lot of question marks for me.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 15:02

Better, but the same accord should have been made between T2s and T3s. Everybody has to have rights and duties. If T1s duty is to help T2s (and T2s right is to play T1s), T2s duty is to help T3s.

Also, I cound't understand: the July tests will be after the end of the European club season or before its kick off? In other words, when the European players are supposed to rest? May or August?

Because you need also a pre-season month. If they rest in May, the season must end on April, just a bit after the 6N. If they will rest in August, the season will just start on October (close to the November tests). And in RWC years they can't rest on August, as RWC kicks off on September.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby olivier » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 15:40

A complete joke about "39 per cent increase in tier one v tier two fixtures". Tier 1 unions protected themselves to ensure they remains T1 until 2032. I really hoped tours will end to free the international schedule but French and English surrendered. They also refuse to end the direct qualifying spot to RWC. Every non-Tier 1 unions need to boycott RWC.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby dropkick » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 15:52

As far as I can see in terms of the season and international windows, the NH has got nothing out of it but a longer season.

Another negative is the NH players won't have time to get up to speed by the time they play the november tests. Those games have been put forward by a week when they should have been put back by a few weeks.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby honestly_united » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 15:55

victorsra wrote:Better, but the same accord should have been made between T2s and T3s. Everybody has to have rights and duties. If T1s duty is to help T2s (and T2s right is to play T1s), T2s duty is to help T3s.

Also, I cound't understand: the July tests will be after the end of the European club season or before its kick off? In other words, when the European players are supposed to rest? May or August?

Because you need also a pre-season month. If they rest in May, the season must end on April, just a bit after the 6N. If they will rest in August, the season will just start on October (close to the November tests). And in RWC years they can't rest on August, as RWC kicks off on September.


That is exactly what I was thinking. At the moment the european season ends the end of May (except France which is later usually) then the players go with their National teams for the June tests, have July off and are back in August for pre-season. Non national team players have June off and are back in July for Pre-season with thier clubs.

However if you give the national team players June off, they are then going on tour in July unfit. It does look like players are only going to get a couple of weeks end of July / start of August off and maybe end of May / start of June depending whether their club sides make the league playoffs or European finals. The leagues are not going to move on their schedules so its the players / fans that are going to suffer, by being burnt out, or even more club matches without the top players being involved.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 16:04

I think the clubs are going to move their season. They'll probably get their mouths shoved with gold from the RFU to do it too. Its the kind of weak willed bullshit you get used to as an English rugby fan. So long as the golden goose international team is not messed around they are happy horse trade anything else for political influence.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Wendigo7 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 16:07

olivier wrote:A complete joke about "39 per cent increase in tier one v tier two fixtures". Tier 1 unions protected themselves to ensure they remains T1 until 2032. I really hoped tours will end to free the international schedule but French and English surrendered. They also refuse to end the direct qualifying spot to RWC. Every non-Tier 1 unions need to boycott RWC.

Are you mad?

Tours are what make rugby great. I really, really do not want an ascension to football which is include for the sake of include and rant about this and that when it's still the same teams winning things.

I'd love to see Georgia, USA and co do tours of the UK. I love the lions and the baabaas. These are concepts which must be kept.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:05

Surprised at some of the negativity here. I was expecting Tier 2 to get nothing out of this change of calendar. 6N sides playing ranking Tests in Tbilisi and Bucharest will be nothing short of historic.

Competition in REC and ARC for ranking points will become more fierce to play for the right of facing a Tier 1.

Yes, there is no mention of Tier 3 but with promotion / relegation to REC (and hopefully ARC) the Tier 2 vs Tier 3 is not as much of an issue and there is a clear route for a Tier 3 nation to develop and one day face Tier 1.

The whole notion of Tiers has been slightly diluted by this announcement. To my eyes it is a great compromise and I'm not sorry if the European leagues have to work around it.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:09

The IRB needed to do a standardized Calendar with less matches amongst the professional sides.

What would have been nice to see is:

Mid-Januar Camp for 6N/ARC/ENC Window

6N/ARC/ENC (5 Weeks) Professional play suspended.

Spring Season Late March Thru Mid June (12-14 Wks)

July Test Window (First 3 Wks)

Playoffs in August (5 Wks)

September Thru October Offseason

November Test Window (3 Matches/4 Wks)

December-Mid January Offseason

Mid-Januar Camp for 6N/ARC/ENC Window

I'm an American so I'm used to a significant offseason. I've played contact sports my whole life and your body needs time to recover, I remember last season with my club we began 7s practice immediately following our season rather than taking a month off, half the team go burnt out and we didn't practice well going into our summer tournament.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:30

The biggest achievement of the announcement is that T2 strong teams like Georgia, Romania, USA, etc are offered to have two games (one on their home ground) with T1 teams. However, if you read the text between the lines it easy to come to following conclusion: the issue of 6N extension is closed up to 2032. Shameful.
Looks t2 countries need to think seriously about alternative solution. Otherwise there is no chance for their further development.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:53

I'm an American so I'm used to a significant offseason. I've played contact sports my whole life and your body needs time to recover, I remember last season with my club we began 7s practice immediately following our season rather than taking a month off, half the team go burnt out and we didn't practice well going into our summer tournament.


European clubs play almost 40 matches every season. No time for large offseasons.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 17:57

The 6N closed shop is a joke. But like never before the REC nations will be given the opportunity to show that they are better than the worst 6N side. Both in terms of overall ranking and potentially in terms of direct, face to face results.

With what appears to be a guaranteed minimum of two games per year against Tier 1 nations the potential for development is a lot stronger.

The pursuit of promotion into the 6N to me is almost a standalone issue compared to these changes.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby carbonero » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:10

sk 88 wrote: Quite 110 "record" T1 v T2 tests over a 12 year period is 9 per season. For all T2 nations combined. Last year by my count there were 11 of these fixtures. The proof will be when we see the actual schedules.


You shouldn’t count World Cup years. That leaves it at 12 tests per year. However, if you look at the amount of T1 vs. T2 tests in 2012 (10), 2013 (15), 2014 (12), 2016 (10) and 2017 (16), it doesn’t feel much of an improvement.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:15

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:The 6N closed shop is a joke. But like never before the REC nations will be given the opportunity to show that they are better than the worst 6N side. Both in terms of overall ranking and potentially in terms of direct, face to face results.

With what appears to be a guaranteed minimum of two games per year against Tier 1 nations the potential for development is a lot stronger.

The pursuit of promotion into the 6N to me is almost a standalone issue compared to these changes.


Italy plays with T1 teams at least 5 times per year, including 2-3 games on its home ground. Georgia, Romania, other t2 teams - 1 or 2 times. Is that comparable? Hell with 6N tournament. I am talking about setting of equal opportunities.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:37

I can't get enthousiastic over this.
The two things I was hoping the most for aren't there.
- Moving the northern hemisphere 6nations window to March-April to allow continental countries to organize games too, and
- a clear separation of the international window and domestic leagues and the stricter player release that come with it.

Although it is not decided yet. Some hope lies in the last two lines of the article:
With agreement reached on the season framework, discussions will continue among the relevant unions regarding the duration of the Six Nations and the British
and Irish Lions, while the major domestic leagues will now be able to start planning start dates and schedules. The full detail of the annual fixtures will be
announced in due course by individual unions.

With the optimised calendar now approved, the World Rugby Council will consider at its Annual Meeting in Kyoto, Japan in May the consequential Regulation 9 amendments
regarding player release for the revised windows.

Nonetheless I am disappointed WR left it at that. Now the tier 2 countries are again dependent on the 6 Nations to get a decent schedule. A glimmer of hope lies in the fact that
the summer window has moved so that maybe it will be more convenient to shift the entire season, including the 6 Nations.

There is of course a lot of spin in the article:
while USA, Canada and Japan also host tours

Don't they already?
- Record minimum of 110 tier one v tier two matches over the period as emerging rugby nations are integrated into the schedule throughout the period (a 39 per cent increase on the previous schedule)"
- Six Nations unions to collectively host a guaranteed minimum of six tier two fixtures in each November window

Surely this must be a miscalculation. 110 Games over 12 years is just 9 t1-t2 games a year. significantly less than is the case now.
6 Nations hosting 6 tier2 teams? Don't they already? (The PI's and the occasional game against Japan or Canada)


Is it all negative?
Well there are also some points that appear positive:
- SANZAAR Unions committed to hosting tier two nations in July window, creating a blend of opposition
- France and England to tour the Pacific Islands
- Georgia and Romania to host matches against Six Nations unions within the July window
- Ability for rankings to determine inclusion of tier two teams in the schedule after Rugby World Cup 2019 and 2023 tournaments to ensure top emerging teams at the time are provided with tier one opportunities based on merit.


But then again I am sceptical: It sounds great but what is tier 2 and what is tier 1? Is Italy tier 1 and Georgia and Fiji tier 2? Or will the classification tier 1 and tier 2 also be based on a teams ranking?
Or have they already decided who will be tier 1 twelve years from now and have 20 other nations battle it out for the available 9 games that are on offer each year?
It feels like a missed opportunity. Fixing the schedules for 12 years feels like stalling any development.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:49

victorsra wrote:
I'm an American so I'm used to a significant offseason. I've played contact sports my whole life and your body needs time to recover, I remember last season with my club we began 7s practice immediately following our season rather than taking a month off, half the team go burnt out and we didn't practice well going into our summer tournament.


European clubs play almost 40 matches every season. No time for large offseasons.


Player Welfare is in the top two priorities in the IRB Strategic Plan...apparently not in the Europe though.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:57

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:The whole notion of Tiers has been slightly diluted by this announcement. To my eyes it is a great compromise and I'm not sorry if the European leagues have to work around it.


I don't see how the T1 v T2 games and the shift from June to July are linked. We could have all the T1vT2 games in the old June calendar if we wanted.

Shifting the season is clearly prioritising Super Rugby over European leagues. Super rugby's finals are only split by the June window because SANZAR expanded their season in 2011, this problem was caused by Super Rugby and SANZAR who now appears to be on the brink of shrinking back anyway, but the costs of it are being born by European Rugby. That's manifestly unfair.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:57

carbonero wrote:
sk 88 wrote: Quite 110 "record" T1 v T2 tests over a 12 year period is 9 per season. For all T2 nations combined. Last year by my count there were 11 of these fixtures. The proof will be when we see the actual schedules.


You shouldn’t count World Cup years. That leaves it at 12 tests per year. However, if you look at the amount of T1 vs. T2 tests in 2012 (10), 2013 (15), 2014 (12), 2016 (10) and 2017 (16), it doesn’t feel much of an improvement.


Fair point on World Cup years.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 18:59

TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:
I'm an American so I'm used to a significant offseason. I've played contact sports my whole life and your body needs time to recover, I remember last season with my club we began 7s practice immediately following our season rather than taking a month off, half the team go burnt out and we didn't practice well going into our summer tournament.


European clubs play almost 40 matches every season. No time for large offseasons.


Player Welfare is in the top two priorities in the IRB Strategic Plan...apparently not in the Europe though.



Do some research. Its not the same people playing all the games. Only a handful of players even get to more than 30 games including all internationals etc.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:34

Some quotes on the matter.

https://youtu.be/b0heyvrRivk

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