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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 17:57

According to this article about Anglo-Welsh Cup expansion the rest month will be August for national team players and July for the rest, with the season start still in September:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/anglo-welsh-cup-set-expanded-12755443

Well, that's crazy. An average player will rest on July and do the pre-season on August. Ok. But the national teams' players will rest on August and won't take part in the pre-season? The guy will go from the beach to the field? In fact they will probably suffer an immense pression from their clubs to return quickly from vacation. That will suck big time for Tier 2 players, specially those from the Pacific Islands, because their clubs will tell them to reject july tests!!!!

I guess in RWC years all players will rest on July, but they will have just 1 month and a half from their rest month to the competition, a bit less than now.

In the other hand it looks that the leagues will be able to avoid clashes with national team in the calendar, what can favour the November tests and the 6N window. This will make it necessary to keep the Americas Rugby Championship in February and probably will favour to place the Pacific Tri Nations in February before the Super Rugby and in the European window.

Let's see how Top 14 will deal with it too, if they will keep their season starting on August, which would be mad.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 19:03

A quote from the announcement: Six Nations unions to collectively host a guaranteed minimum of six tier two fixtures in each November window

But it already happened in 2014, 2016 and planned for this fall: Six Nations will host Samoa (two matches), Georgia, Japan, Romania, Fiji.
Nothing new.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sandro » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 19:27

Well the step forward is Georgia will host T1 in july not june so we will be much stronger in the mid-year tests. Plus the highest ranked T2 teams will have advantages over lower ranked ones, so Georgia can play at least 2-3 T1 teams occaisonaly even 4 if we overtake Japan and Fiji in the rankings by that time.
But I agree it is quite disepointing, they just threw us a bone.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 19:58

victorsra wrote:According to this article about Anglo-Welsh Cup expansion the rest month will be August for national team players and July for the rest, with the season start still in September:http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/anglo-welsh-cup-set-expanded-12755443

Well, that's crazy. An average player will rest on July and do the pre-season on August. Ok. But the national teams' players will rest on August and won't take part in the pre-season? The guy will go from the beach to the field? In fact they will probably suffer an immense pression from their clubs to return quickly from vacation. That will suck big time for Tier 2 players, specially those from the Pacific Islands, because their clubs will tell them to reject july tests!!!!

I guess in RWC years all players will rest on July, but they will have just 1 month and a half from their rest month to the competition, a bit less than now.

In the other hand it looks that the leagues will be able to avoid clashes with national team in the calendar, what can favour the November tests and the 6N window. This will make it necessary to keep the Americas Rugby Championship in February and probably will favour to place the Pacific Tri Nations in February before the Super Rugby and in the European window.

Let's see how Top 14 will deal with it too, if they will keep their season starting on August, which would be mad.



Its so mental that even I think it is barmy and can't see how it can possibly work in the medium to long term.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 21:19

We're still on the 2016-2020 Strategic Plan. It doesn't talk about getting T2 competition to the level of T1 in order to expand T1.

How do we shape a calendar that adds 6 countries to the T1 Status and then bring up 6 or more countries to T2 level of play.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 02:06

Like I said before, the definition of T1 status is going to have to be redefined. It can't just be teams who play in 6N or RC, that's an arbitrary criteria, it has to be defined as what level of professionalism is in the nation, as well as performance on the field. If a country has a pro league and has shown to compete well against the top opposition, have a regular international tournament and all their talent are professionals, as far as I'm concerned that's good enough to be given T1 status. At the moment there is no real definition as to who gets classes as what. I could easily argue right now Japan are a T1 nation based on the above criteria, and frankly given the improvements they've made I can't see much of an argument against it.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 03:05

T1 really means the stakeholders of the game who control the scheduling. Basically the home nations plus the original trilogy nations. Italy France, Argentina don't hold much power in this regard. They force the scheduling to made so far in advance and for the calendar to stay stagnant so they can sell TV rights and sponsorship for 'series'. The argument made by t1 fans tends to be it would affect the income of their unions, but when it has such a massive effect on the rest of the world and sets in stone so far in advancedit is inherently unfair on the rest to scrap for the leftovers.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby antlat » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 09:33

Article from http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/world ... 444c26c095

World Rugby unites for ‘global season’
AUSTRALIAN rugby has been given some sorely needed good news with confirmation the much-touted “global season” will come into effect in 2020.
After years of argument, negotiation and compromise between the north and south, World Rugby announced overnight the global calendar would significantly shift its structure - with the biggest move being the June Test window being pushed back to July.
This will allow Super Rugby to run from start to finish, without a three or four week break.
Northern hemisphere seasons are set to start later to accommodate their Test players touring the southern hemisphere in July, and it is expected the Six Nations will trim its length by one week as well.
The November international window will shift slightly so the three Tests will be played in the first three weeks, not the last three.
While the stresses of the current Super Rugby mess will have stopped champagne corks flying, the creation of the July Test windows will have been very welcome news to battered Super Rugby franchises bosses.
For years they have bemoaned the fact that the entire season grinds to a halt for three weeks in June to accommodate the inbound Test tours.
It halts momentum for their franchises and dis-engages fans as the finals race is heating up.
Coaches also have to cross their fingers that Test players don’t get injured and figure out a way to train their side - minus their internationals - through a month-long break. With only two or three regular rounds falling after the June window, finals chances routinely rest on the form a side is able to immediately conjure after the Test break.
No longer. Now the Super Rugby season - in whatever form it reaches - will run from mid February through to a Grand Final on the second last weekend in June.
There will be a one-week break before Tests begin on the first weekend of July.
Northern hemisphere nations had argued against moving the June window to July, mostly due to the knock-on of having to re-order their financially thriving domestic competitions.
But with Argentina’s new World Rugby deputy chairman Agustin Pichot yet again proving his ice-to-eskimos salesman skills, compromise has been reached.
The biggest trade-off for Australia appears to be the fact that in the years immediately after World Cup years - so in 2020, 2023, 2027 and 2031 - inbound July tours will only have a mandated two Tests, instead of three.
This will prevent Australia staging a post World Cup three-Test series like the bumper England series last year.
The chance to stage three-Test series will be cut right back, also, by agreed obligations of tier one nations to host a tier-two nation for at least one Test match in every four-year cycle.
World Rugby are intent on growing the game globally and by putting tier two nations against the big guns outside World Cups, they hope the gulf between the minor and major nations narrows.
The tier two nations are: Fiji, Japan, Samoa, Tonga, Georgia, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Spain, Canada, USA, Uruguay and Namibia.
As it turns out, Australia are already booked into play Fiji and Japan this year.
Factoring in a British and Irish Lions tour each cycle as well - where the tier two nation would likely visit given only France and Italy are free to tour - it’s likely Australia will only get one year to host a three-Test series once in every four years.
There is the chance for a northern nation to agree to a third Test in the post-World Cup year, however.
Arranged between unions directly, “money Tests” are common in November and the revenue is split between them. In the World Rugby mandated Test windows, host nations pay costs but keep all the revenue.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 09:51

I have few simple questions. What if Italy takes 4th position at the coming WC? Will it be still recognized as T1 team? How Italy will be engaged in 2023 WC qualifiers taking into account that it also participates in 6N tournament which takes place in the same period as European Nations Cup?

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Silver Fox » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 09:58

thatrugbyguy wrote:Like I said before, the definition of T1 status is going to have to be redefined. It can't just be teams who play in 6N or RC, that's an arbitrary criteria, ...
Exactly.
The more I think about this the more worried I become. Declaring themselves the best and virtually denying all others equal opportunities for the next 15 years just make me sick. If this is the governance and vision WR is going to show under Bill Beaumont it doesn't bode well. Not in terms of developing opportunities nor in prospects of expanding the RWC. This (the global calendar) was supposed to be one of, if not the spearpoint of his presidentship. I guess we will just have to wait and sit it out until the next president comes around. We don't have to expect anything for the duration of his time in command.
Oh, while I am at it: don't hope for an expansion of the RWC to expand to 24 teams anytime soon. In the last reforms under Lapasset the main criterium for expansion of and inclusion in the WR Council is based on:
member unions who have qualified for two consecutive Rugby World Cups within last eight-year assessment period
By expanding to 24 teams there are up to 4 unions who would also get a seat and a vote. Does anyone here really believes that 'they' will let this happen?
Last edited by Silver Fox on Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 10:20, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 10:17

Silver Fox wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Like I said before, the definition of T1 status is going to have to be redefined. It can't just be teams who play in 6N or RC, that's an arbitrary criteria, ...
Exactly this.
The more I think about this the more worried I become. Declaring themselves the best and virtually denying all others equal opportunities for the next 15 years just make me sick. If this is the governance and vision WR is going to show under Bill Beaumont it doesn't bode well. Not in terms of developing opportunities nor in prospects of expanding the RWC. This was supposed to be one of, if not the spearpoint of his presidentship. I guess we will just have to wait and sit it out until the next president comes around. We don't have to expect anything for the duration of his time in command.
Oh, while I am at it: don't hope for an expansion of the RWC to expand to 24 teams anytime soon. In the last reforms under Lapasset the main criterium for expansion of and inclusion in the WR Council is based on:
member unions who have qualified for two consecutive Rugby World Cups within last eight-year assessment period
By expanding to 24 teams there are up to 4 unions who would also get a seat and a vote. Does anyone here really believes that 'they' will let this happen?


It's so sad, so called T3 countries like Germany, HongKong, Korea, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Russia, Belgium among others who are trying to improve their rugby status, will just have to live with the terms of being secluded and oppressed. WR should grade countries according to World Ranking and not those ideologies of the 6N and RC participation. In any case, if Fiji and Tonga would have applied to join the RC, their appeals would be thrown out the window faster than you can say "I DO". The best method is to upgrade all countries between 1- 15 as T1, then 15 -30 as T2, then allocate friendly matches with this point in mind.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BertSolomon » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 10:44

Neptune wrote:It's so sad, so called T3 countries like Germany, HongKong, Korea, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Russia, Belgium among others who are trying to improve their rugby status, will just have to live with the terms of being secluded and oppressed.


I think the term you are looking for is 'apartheid' - which rugby union authorities have a long history of happily supporting.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Wendigo7 » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 11:06

There is some serious rubbish on this page. :/

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 12:01

Can those who are negative about this announcement point me to any reference to the 6N and RC being a closed shop until the 2030s?

I see no reference to that and think it is pure speculation.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 12:26

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:Can those who are negative about this announcement point me to any reference to the 6N and RC being a closed shop until the 2030s?

I see no reference to that and think it is pure speculation.


Obviously, there is no direct reference. But, in practice situation is different. Let me repeat again my question. What would happen if Italy, Scotland, any other Six Nations team in 2019 WC takes 4th or 5th place at the group stage, i.e. will not qualify directly to 2023 WC. Are they going to participate in qualifying tournament on equal terms with Romania, Belgium, Spain, etc? Answer is simple - of course, not. World Rugby will invent something different for them (Like they do it for Oceania teams to ensure their participation in 2019).

A problem of unequal and unfair treatment is an undeniable part of World's economic, political, cultural life. Unfortunately, Rugby is not an exception.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 12:58

If you think Tier 2 Japan will not be in the RC by 2030s then we have a different perception of the future. By forcing a /minimum/ of direct competition between Tier 1 and the rest they have opened the doors to the rest of the world to gain ranking points and show what they are capable on and off the field. Recognition and opportunities would then follow.

To answer your question about the RWC, who knows? Let's cross that bridge when we come to it rather than assume the worst. I think there will be an appetite for the RWC to be at least 24 nations by 2032 which would likely change the qualification proecedures.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 13:04

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:If you think Tier 2 Japan will not be in the RC by 2030s then we have a different perception of the future. By forcing a /minimum/ of direct competition between Tier 1 and the rest they have opened the doors to the rest of the world to gain ranking points and show what they are capable on and off the field. Recognition and opportunities would then follow.

To answer your question about the RWC, who knows? Let's cross that bridge when we come to it rather than assume the worst. I think there will be an appetite for the RWC to be at least 24 nations by 2032 which would likely change the qualification proecedures.


That is an answer I was looking for. My point is that there is no universal procedure (rules) for qualification tournament. The World Rugby can react not according to rules (especially when there are absent) but at their discretion. Therefore, IRB will favor T1 teams.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 14:57

BertSolomon wrote:
Neptune wrote:It's so sad, so called T3 countries like Germany, HongKong, Korea, Kenya, Zimbabwe, Russia, Belgium among others who are trying to improve their rugby status, will just have to live with the terms of being secluded and oppressed.


I think the term you are looking for is 'apartheid' - which rugby union authorities have a long history of happily supporting.


Yeah, but i guess even if we are suffering as rugby purists and tier 3 nations, our cricket brothers are going through much worse. Infact, with cricket, i know the whole story from a Kenyan perspective. After defeating giants like Sri-Lanka and West Indies, Kenya currently can't even defeat Nepal in an O.D.I

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 15:27

The other issue to think about is if performance is going to be a determining factor for T2 nations getting higher profile games then the same rule should apply to T1 nations. Right now South Africa is at an all time low of 7th, they could very well be as low as 10th by the end of June if France sweep them 3-0, and given the state of Springbok rugby at the moment that's entirely possible. If T2 nations can earn the right to play high profiled matches why can't a team like South Africa also lose the right? I'm not talking RC, just June and November internationals.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 15:34

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:If you think Tier 2 Japan will not be in the RC by 2030s then we have a different perception of the future. By forcing a /minimum/ of direct competition between Tier 1 and the rest they have opened the doors to the rest of the world to gain ranking points and show what they are capable on and off the field. Recognition and opportunities would then follow.

To answer your question about the RWC, who knows? Let's cross that bridge when we come to it rather than assume the worst. I think there will be an appetite for the RWC to be at least 24 nations by 2032 which would likely change the qualification proecedures.



Complete bullocks, who is willing to wait till 2032 for change? Most of you in this group will be grandfathers.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 20:28

I'm suggesting Japan will be in the RC well before 2030, and that we won't have to wait that long for change. Once Tier 2 side show they are competitive there will be changes, and with this announcement it becomes far harder for Tier 1 to ignore improving nations, as they will be forced to play them.

I sympathise with Namibia and Kenya not being named in this announcement. But Korea weren't mentioned and they are clearly being considered by World Rugby given their recent tour of Chile. Just because a country isn't name checked doesn't mean it is being ignored.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 22:40

Germany is tier 3 and Portugal is tier 2? That makes absolutely no sense.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 06:56

NaBUru38 wrote:Germany is tier 3 and Portugal is tier 2? That makes absolutely no sense.


Where did you get that from? Outside of some interesting "fantasy tier rankings", t1 is 6N and RC. T2 is world cup participant, tier2,5 are Germany and Brazil as Pichot mentioned them explicitly as target nations within the next 10 years. Rest is t3.

One could argue about the status of Brazil and Germany but the rest is crystal clear.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 07:09, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Silver Fox » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 07:03

Bruce_ma_goose wrote: Once Tier 2 side show they are competitive there will be changes...
That is a catch 22 situation.
My main beef with the whole thing is that tier 2 have to earn their position (nothing wrong with that) but that the self declared tier 1 cemented their opportunities for the next 15 years. What's meritocratic about that?

My best hope is, as Thatrugbyguy pointed out, a redefinition of the tiers.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby jservuk » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 08:47

It's clear - they are hoping that the Rugby WC in itself will do the trick.

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