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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Thomas » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:35

TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:
I'm an American so I'm used to a significant offseason. I've played contact sports my whole life and your body needs time to recover, I remember last season with my club we began 7s practice immediately following our season rather than taking a month off, half the team go burnt out and we didn't practice well going into our summer tournament.


European clubs play almost 40 matches every season. No time for large offseasons.


Player Welfare is in the top two priorities in the IRB Strategic Plan...apparently not in the Europe though.


Please do some research we don't play everyone the whole season, our season is almost over and I for one looking forward to the break and away from all the drama then back into 7's as tune up
we have 3 squads and rotate our players at Amateur level we play around 30 matches that is league and cup games but injuries and family commitments makes us change.

Same at semi professional level ( LEVEL 4 & 5) We have large squads and we must rotate, we have around 45 players for 2 teams, 3rd team is social.

I would like see how they move the seasons to accommodate WR agreement, interesting to see how the French take the July issue with the Pre-season just around the corner for them

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:40

Thomas wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:

Please do some research we don't play everyone the whole season, our season is almost over and I for one looking forward to the break and away from all the drama then back into 7's as tune up
we have 3 squads and rotate our players at Amateur level we play around 30 matches that is league and cup games but injuries and family commitments makes us change.

Same at semi professional level ( LEVEL 4 & 5) We have large squads and we must rotate, we have around 45 players for 2 teams, 3rd team is social.

I would like see how they move the seasons to accommodate WR agreement, interesting to see how the French take the July issue with the Pre-season just around the corner for them


Why does having an extra set of players matter. Run B-Side fixtures if you need them to play. Large squads and what have you. That's not the point. The point is to have unified calendar so that all top players are in their national team colors and don't have to risk their contracts not getting renewed because they choose to play in a national team test match.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Thomas » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:50

It matters because we have league, cup games which are separate tournaments we play in 2 of those. that takes a lot of resources. We don't have B side fixture they have their own league and play for championship and if they are good enough they will displace a 1st team player. it has nothing to do with the National Team. we had a qualified international (he is 21) but we hardly so him in addition to international games he had to go to Academy training, clinics as he was with the RFU and hone his skills to play internationally he must likely go to a premiership club. Also if he is on International duty can't play for club. this doesn't include if players are selected for County or Regional duty.

So is not as straightforward as many people think. Also despite what you think Player welfare is upmost on our minds, we have strict rules that are enforced for injuries, concussions etc.. hence why we cherished the small off-season.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:56

we have 3 squads and rotate our players at Amateur level we play around 30 matches that is league and cup games but injuries and family commitments makes us change.


24 Premiership rounds + 6 Anglo-Welsh Cup rounds + 9 European Cup rounds.

Excluding the Anglo-Welsh, which is played only during national teams windows, you have 33 rounds. Of course English clubs use players rotation!!! That is the source of the conflict! You can't ask them to use in even more games development players because this affects their final results in the league, which is backed by sponsor and fans that want the best product ever! Those rounds without national team players can be the difference in a the struggle for the Semifinals spots or the Champions Cup spots, or even against Relegation. In France they don't have the cup, it is 29 Top 14 rounds + 9 European Cup rounds, even more conflict.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 20:21

Guys...the world should bend over backward for Aviva...bollocks.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 20:53

Aviva no, PRL. And look at the French news how hard time the LNR is giving the FFR again to see if it is bollocks. Soccer's problems are rugby's problems too more than ever, unfortunatly.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 20:59

Even though it mentions only Georgia and Romania hosting 6 Nations teams Gus Pichot mentioned in that video link talking to Brazil and Germany as well, that would indicate to me there's more plans there for T3 nations in the next 15 years than what's been reported so far.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:08

TheStroBro wrote:Guys...the world should bend over backward for Aviva...bollocks.


What are you on about?

Word Rugby has just shit from a great height on us. AGAIN. To solve a problem in the southern hemisphere that they created. That doesn't help T2 unions or players or national teams.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:11

I think their release is ambigous. They say explicit USA, Canada, Japan, Georgia, Romania and the PIs. However, they say also:

Ability for rankings to determine inclusion of tier two teams in the schedule after Rugby World Cup 2019 and 2023 tournaments to ensure top emerging teams at the time are provided with tier one opportunities based on merit


What I question: does anyone need to get out from that "tier 2" status to have anyone new in? Well, they certainly look to have calculated the number of T1 vs T2 tests they want... well, it is important to know because 2020-2032 is VERY long time and too many things can change with countries rugby levels.
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Natal » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:17

My understanding is that Tier 1 simply denotes those teams allowed to play in the two annual elite competitions: the Rugby Championship and the Six Nations. It has little to do with merit. If a team somehow manages to buy their way into either of these competitions in the next few years (decades?) then they will presumably become Tier 1.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:29

I think we have to start reclassifying who is and who isn't a T1 nation. I think it can be argued Japan is more or less a T2 nation in name only now, they've got a team in the highest provincial competition in the world, they have their own pro league, and they've started to get some wins over top 8 nations. Maybe they need a few more notable test wins but my mind Japan should be reclassified as T1 moving forward. For all intense and purposes I would consider reclassifying Georgia and Fiji too, they are better than some of the other T2 nations and most if not all T3 nations but not quite T1 level, their domestic leagues aren't fully professional and their pro talent is usually spread all over the world, although that will change in Fiji's case with the NRC team coming this year. So, I would consider giving those two nations provisional T1 status. Could probably be added Romania to that too, they've got a professional league but are lacking some international results, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. USA I don't think are quite their yet, if Major League Rugby takes off as the main pro league and they start getting some victories over high ranked teams then I would add them too. Essentially this gives room to elevate the next batch of T3 nations to T2 status. Ideally this is the list of who the T1 teams should be by 2023 RWC:

T1
New Zealand
England
Australia
Ireland
Wales
France
Argentina
Scotland
South Africa
Italy
Japan
Fiji
Georgia
USA
Romania

Partial T1
Canada
Uruguay
Samoa
Tonga

T2
Namibia
Brazil
Spain
Germany
Kenya
Chile
Hong Kong
Russia
Zimbabwe
Korea
Last edited by thatrugbyguy on Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby armchair_expert » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:30

I can't imagine English and French clubs adjusting their well-functioning domestic seasons just to please Sanzar masters - what if the latter run out of money again and decide to extend the Super Rugby season to July? will test window be switched to August in that case? I think the July tours tradition should be abandoned anyway - European teams don't need it and Sanzar public just don't care about europoors enough to generate non-negligible revenues.

Pretty much nothing changed for the 'developing nations' perspective - events of Georgia hosting tired af development squads of 6N teams in +35 heat won't be loved by anyone involved in them; Japan and North America who are actually working on their development will see no improvement in this while lazy islanders will get more chances to test more grandchildren against England and France; perhabs it's time to FIRA 2.0 after 2020?

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 21:44

sk 88 wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:Guys...the world should bend over backward for Aviva...bollocks.


What are you on about?

Word Rugby has just shit from a great height on us. AGAIN. To solve a problem in the southern hemisphere that they created. That doesn't help T2 unions or players or national teams.


World Rugby didn't take any shits on you. T1 Nations have the most votes at World Rugby and guess how many more Tier 1 Nations are in the Northern Hemisphere than Southern Hemisphere. You got them beat at a 6:4 advantage. You didn't get anything taken away, but they gave something to SANZAAR.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 00:17

It's depressing to see how little progress is going to be made in the game in 20 years. Fucking hell

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby nick511 » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 03:49

They have definitely made some progress with integrating more matches between the top 20 nations. But as others have said my biggest concern is why the need to lock everything in for 12 years? that just seems counter-productive to me, if shifts occur during that time nothing can be changed. The last deal was 2011-19 so why change the term for this agreement? It just gives the tier 1 nations more excuses during that time frame cause they can say they're locked in this agreement. Who's to say Georgia or Romania will be the strongest teams outside the 6 nations by 2032, this just makes it harder for those other nations not included.

The obvious point is there still isn't a global season both sides have done bits and pieces but its only a temporary solution. I'm a Southerner but I definitely think the North has been shafted a bit by this. They have the more complex and longer club season. Super Rugby could've been shortened I think and the June window pushed back one or two weeks instead of July.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 05:20

This bit caught my eye:

"Tours to SANZAAR nations immediately after a Rugby World Cup year will be reduced to two matches, promoting player welfare the year after rugby’s biggest event"

So if I'm reading this correctly, in July 2020 all nations will only be able to play a maximum of 2 matches against either New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina and Australia, meaning the RC nations will have 4 slots to fill for the mid-year test matches in the year following the world cup, and the 6 Nations will have an extra match to schedule in outside of RC nations should the wish to do so. So, if my math is correct, it essentially means in theory there should be at least 10 T1 test matches available to T2 nations in July of 2020.

Example Mid Year Schedule:
England - Fiji, Australia, Australia
France - Romania, New Zealand, New Zealand,
Ireland - Georgia, South Africa, South Africa
Wales - Canada, Uruguay, Argentina
Scotland - USA, Argentina, Romania
Italy - Japan, Canada, USA

Australia - Japan, England, England
New Zealand - Tonga, France, France
South Africa - Samoa, Ireland, Ireland
Argentina - Namibia, Scotland, Wales

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 05:44

The Southern Hemisphere clubs dont blackmail players into not playing for their country though, so i couldn't care less if it infringes on the European club season. We need less games up here and to reduce clashes with the international game to avoid conflicts of interest, have a longer off season and for better quality games.

The unions arent blameless either. Their reluctance to move the November window and 6 nations in Europe will continue to cause issues for t2 and t3. In November i think this is more to do with the out of window tests rather than less lucrative TV rights as they are negligible.

Good to see that the southern hemisphere will host t2 nations in July. I think that's the first time that's been the case. This will at least share the 'burden' with the north, and together with the November and June tours it will riase the amount of t1 v t2 matches annually and allow flexibility​.

Ideally the fact that Georgia and Romania are highlighted is only due to them being the outstanding two in Europe, however, as you say this will give the 6 nations an excuse. I would have liked to have seen some sort of passport playing time system for professional players, as now it is only controlled domestically.

Another issue is if the goal is to expand to a 24 team world cup and revamp the qualifiers how will that fit in with t1 having dibs so far in advance.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 05:49

thatrugbyguy wrote:This bit caught my eye:

"Tours to SANZAAR nations immediately after a Rugby World Cup year will be reduced to two matches, promoting player welfare the year after rugby’s biggest event"

So if I'm reading this correctly, in July 2020 all nations will only be able to play a maximum of 2 matches against either New Zealand, South Africa, Argentina and Australia, meaning the RC nations will have 4 slots to fill for the mid-year test matches in the year following the world cup, and the 6 Nations will have an extra match to schedule in outside of RC nations should the wish to do so. So, if my math is correct, it essentially means in theory there should be at least 10 T1 test matches available to T2 nations in July of 2020.

Example Mid Year Schedule:
England - Fiji, Australia, Australia
France - Romania, New Zealand, New Zealand,
Ireland - Georgia, South Africa, South Africa
Wales - Canada, Uruguay, Argentina
Scotland - USA, Argentina, Romania
Italy - Japan, Canada, USA

Australia - Japan, England, England
New Zealand - Tonga, France, France
South Africa - Samoa, Ireland, Ireland
Argentina - Namibia, Scotland, Wales


I think that's more to do with alleviating concerns from the international players association regarding player burnout after world cups. It would be interesting to see if the south have asked for compensation as they already lose some rugby Championship fixtures in world cups years, whilst in all this the northern hemisphere home test total stays the same.

I reckon it will be a two test window for all t1s having a knock on effect with t2/3 due to club release. With maybe out of window tests arranged.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 07:52

thatrugbyguy wrote:I think we have to start reclassifying who is and who isn't a T1 nation. I think it can be argued Japan is more or less a T2 nation in name only now, they've got a team in the highest provincial competition in the world, they have their own pro league, and they've started to get some wins over top 8 nations. Maybe they need a few more notable test wins but my mind Japan should be reclassified as T1 moving forward. For all intense and purposes I would consider reclassifying Georgia and Fiji too, they are better than some of the other T2 nations and most if not all T3 nations but not quite T1 level, their domestic leagues aren't fully professional and their pro talent is usually spread all over the world, although that will change in Fiji's case with the NRC team coming this year. So, I would consider giving those two nations provisional T1 status. Could probably be added Romania to that too, they've got a professional league but are lacking some international results, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. USA I don't think are quite their yet, if Major League Rugby takes off as the main pro league and they start getting some victories over high ranked teams then I would add them too. Essentially this gives room to elevate the next batch of T3 nations to T2 status. Ideally this is the list of who the T1 teams should be by 2023 RWC:

T1
New Zealand
England
Australia
Ireland
Wales
France
Argentina
Scotland
South Africa
Italy
Japan
Fiji
Georgia
USA
Romania

Partial T1
Canada
Uruguay
Samoa
Tonga

T2
Namibia
Brazil
Spain
Germany
Kenya
Chile
Hong Kong
Russia
Zimbabwe
Korea


Don't think this helps in any way. From what I understand World Rugby says:
T1 = RC +6N
T2 = other world cup participants
T3 = Rest.

All they committed to is that they will play those T2 teams.

In ceterum censeo my signature :D
It could have been so easy. Even have a draw every year and promote it etc.
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 08:00, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 07:58

So according to world rugby, tier 3 nations don't play rugby? They just run around in tight shorts with an egg shaped thing that resembles a ball.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 08:15

If World Rugby's calendar only rotates around T1 and T2 countries, then there should be a deliberate effort to try and promote T3 countries to T2 countries by giving them more home test matches against the T2's and also showing the efforts done by T3 nations even if it's a little. Now, what happens to nations like Kenya, Zimbabwe, Germany, Chile, Hong Kong, Korea, Brazil, Russia, Portugal and Belgium which are considered strong T3 nations. Do we just rot out there in the cold?

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 08:54

I was actually waiting for a proposal to hear them say that they want to increase the RWC teams to 24. 6 POOLS of 4 TEAMS each. Now, that would have made my day.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 12:45

Neptune wrote:If World Rugby's calendar only rotates around T1 and T2 countries, then there should be a deliberate effort to try and promote T3 countries to T2 countries by giving them more home test matches against the T2's and also showing the efforts done by T3 nations even if it's a little. Now, what happens to nations like Kenya, Zimbabwe, Germany, Chile, Hong Kong, Korea, Brazil, Russia, Portugal and Belgium which are considered strong T3 nations. Do we just rot out there in the cold?


I definitely agree that there should be more t2 V t3 matches, especially cross regional when we consider that t2 already play against their regional t3 opponents in annual championships. I don't see any reason for example with the US and Canada getting more home t1 tests in July why they can't play some t3 European nations and the same with other t2's in November. Why bother with neutral test matches in Europe? If we must do it bring over the South Americans and Namibia and Kenya as well to continue this month of rugby in Europe theme.

You have to take into account that there's only a small amount of t2 nations as well. We should categorise Samoa and Fiji as t1 in all fairness, they are no less deserving of that title than Italy if not more so, that leaves you 8 t2. The limited amount should leave some spare tests available for t3, however, as is usually the case funding is an issue and that's where world rugby needs to come in.

We can see that WR's priority is getting the t2 nations up to speed as much as possible. Meanwhile there needs be consideration of how you accelerate the USA, Canada and Georgia's growth in particular. It won't just come from test matches, there needs to be impetus to develop level's below that. Japan is on their way. In the USAs case, keeping a pro league of some sort going needs to happen. It isn't so much about creating amazingly skilled or proficient rugby players, but more so having depth of 200+ professional athletes trained for rugby. Georgia needs to get their backs improving, a domestic franchise in an established league might be the only way to do that in the short term. I'm certain they could beat a few t1s nations then, their scrum is incredible, far stronger that when Italy had their golden age of scrummagers. Canada who knows....

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 16:25

ihateblazers wrote:The Southern Hemisphere clubs dont blackmail players into not playing for their country though, so i couldn't care less if it infringes on the European club season. We need less games up here and to reduce clashes with the international game to avoid conflicts of interest, have a longer off season and for better quality games.

The unions arent blameless either. Their reluctance to move the November window and 6 nations in Europe will continue to cause issues for t2 and t3. In November i think this is more to do with the out of window tests rather than less lucrative TV rights as they are negligible.

Good to see that the southern hemisphere will host t2 nations in July. I think that's the first time that's been the case. This will at least share the 'burden' with the north, and together with the November and June tours it will riase the amount of t1 v t2 matches annually and allow flexibility​.

Ideally the fact that Georgia and Romania are highlighted is only due to them being the outstanding two in Europe, however, as you say this will give the 6 nations an excuse. I would have liked to have seen some sort of passport playing time system for professional players, as now it is only controlled domestically.

Another issue is if the goal is to expand to a 24 team world cup and revamp the qualifiers how will that fit in with t1 having dibs so far in advance.



Because they refuse to employ them in the first place.

As for SANZAR hosting, Australia have hosted Samoa and Fiji, NZ have hosted Fiji, NZ have also gone to Samoa, all in the last 7 years. Its more smoke and mirrors from world rugby. The only "new" thing announced was Romania and Georgia hosting 6N teams in July. That is genuinely new.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby BigG » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 17:02

I agree with our friends from Kenya. African (Asian as well) Rugby deserves more attention. In Europe (two T2 teams) and America (three of them) constantly play with T3 teams in the frameworks of Europe and Americas championships. In Africa and Asia there are only 2 T2 teams (Japan and Namibia). Therefore there is a lack of T2 teams in those regions. In Africa, for example only three T3 teams play with Namibia. Others are denied of that opportunity. I believe IRB should pay more attention to that and build a special concept (program) for Africa and Asia.

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