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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Blurandski » Mon, 01 Oct 2018, 22:04

victorsra wrote:But it wouldn't go below 24.

I counted 26 matches + national cups.



You said 14 league games and the euro club cup which would be 9 rounds, presumably 6 group stage games? That's only 20 guaranteed.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Mon, 01 Oct 2018, 22:09

+ national cups. The would mean minimum 6 (it fits, but without 6N national team players).

In fact it would be logical if the REC were played lets say in September/October with REC players out of the first part of the national league but available during the national cup finals. The cups need to worth a Euro Cup spot for the champions meaning that clubs would value good REC players available for this period. Squad management.

(And good for Eastern countries because they dont need to play in the winter)
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Blurandski » Mon, 01 Oct 2018, 22:19

victorsra wrote:+ national cups. The would mean minimum 6 (it fits, but without 6N national team players).

In fact it would be logical if the REC were played lets say in September/October with REC players out of the first part of the national league but available during the national cup finals. The cups need to worth a Euro Cup spot for rge Champions meaning that clubs would vaue good REC players available for this period. Squad management.

(And good for Eastern countries because they dont need to play in the winter)


Ah okay, to be honest they'd probably rather abolish the national cups, and add the extra 6/7 rounds. To be honest the best route to stealth reducing games marginally would be to change the Euro Cups, make it more open like the Champions/Europa league. Champions Cup: 24 teams (4*6 home or away), 6 P14, 6Prem, 6 T14, 1 Challenge Winner, 5*T2 leagues (allocated via points system/or go 7 from each league, and only 2 T2 leagues). Challenge Cup: 16 teams (4*4 H or A), 4 P14, 4 Prem, 4 T14, 4 T2(ditto). Immediately you 'lose' 6 games for the bottom 2 Prem, 4T14, 4P14 sides, one game lost for the top 6 in each league, three games for 7-10. Challenge cup games in particular tend not to be big draws, so clubs wouldn't fight as hard to keep them as league games.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Scoob » Tue, 02 Oct 2018, 06:15

Apparently the 12 team competition has been signed off to go ahead.There will also be a second tier competition involving Georgia,Romania etc.Promotion and relegation will take place as well. This according to Australia business insider report.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 02 Oct 2018, 06:40

I can't wait to see Italy playing T2 nations cup than.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 02 Oct 2018, 06:54

Still sceptical it will actually go ahead. I suspect there will be a statement from the RFU this week...

Interesting if they will base it on world rankings or current t1/t2 categories or 2019 world cup pool standings I.e. auto qualifiers.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 02 Oct 2018, 08:16

I still can't work out how this format would even work. If it's four groups of 3 teams that's only 4 matches in total if teams play each other twice. But who plays where? I can't think of a format for this to work that would suit everyone.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 02 Oct 2018, 08:45

thatrugbyguy wrote:I still can't work out how this format would even work. If it's four groups of 3 teams that's only 4 matches in total if teams play each other twice. But who plays where? I can't think of a format for this to work that would suit everyone.


If it has been ratified then we'll have to wait and see I guess. There's also some mention of an agency suggesting that the top nations should look to bundle their international rights stating that they could be worth between $800-1b Euros. Not sure if that annually or over a time period. If it's annually I can see the major Unions being very interested.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 08:42

€1B would be far fetched IMO.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 10:44

thatrugbyguy wrote:€1B would be far fetched IMO.


I guess it would depend on the overall length of the deal.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 11:56

Would it be anymore than 3 years given the World Cup?

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 22:42

thatrugbyguy wrote:Would it be anymore than 3 years given the World Cup?


Whatever the time frame. It would need to present a better proposition than the status quo. Which for RA is $58m AUD annually. Which is mostly driven by Test Rugby.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 22:45

thatrugbyguy wrote:€1B would be far fetched IMO.


If it were an annual figure I'd say the €800m is probably more likely. Which if so would probably still see a significant boost in the overall incomes for T1 nations assuming of course that is who this is directed toward.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 22:59

Scoob wrote:Apparently the 12 team competition has been signed off to go ahead.There will also be a second tier competition involving Georgia,Romania etc.Promotion and relegation will take place as well. This according to Australia business insider report.


I've been thinking about this a bit and I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather they look to do this with the nations outside the Top 20 in the world. I think it could be a really useful tool for many of those emerging nations to test themselves and grow but with the RWC as out centrepiece this just seems as a prime example of overkill in my opinion.

What I would prefer to see occur is WR look to build on existing structures such as the Rugby Championship and establish new commercial structures as a means of further developing the international game among the Top 20 nations. In regards to the Rugby Championship. Work with SANZAAR to look to include the likes of Japan and the US into the fold. Or even look to set up a Tri-Nations between the aforementioned two and Canada while pressing SANZAAR to include Fiji.

Look at options to develop the ENC structures more commercially as well.

If the commercial opportunity grows within a number of the T2 nations within the Top 20 that's when you will see T1 nations starting to stand up and engage with them more often. And I tend to think it will have better long term impacts than a T1 World league. Leave the World League concept to the nations ranked 21 - 36. Where it can do the most good. Providing them with strong annual competition and an end goal in mind.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby bolleje » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 09:49

I was thinking about this Nations League and started wondering if this could feature in the RWC qualification process. If we keep the 20 team world cup for 2023, then maybe the auto-qualifiers of the previous world cup could be replaced with the 12 teams in division 1 of the Nations League (that would more or less be the same teams anyway) in 2022. The second division tournament could gain in importance then by giving all the semi finalists (winners of each group) a ticket for the World Cup. The remaining 4 spots could then be divided as is the case now (best non-qualified team from Europe (ENC), one Africa spot (Africa Cup), one Americas spot + repechage winner)...

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby NedRugby » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 16:34

thatrugbyguy wrote:€1B would be far fetched IMO.


I think I might be prepared to invest €1B. Hell, I pay almost that much to watch the Dutch national team and they aren't that fantastic.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 18:03

€1 billion is about £880,000,000.

Divided by 12 is £73.5m (more or less). The RFU's turnover is £184m, it splits down by a few things but not by autumn games v 6N. £153m is from ticket, broadcasting, sponsorship, hospitality. The AI's make up half the fixtures that year. Half the revenue of £153m is £76m.

So its likely the 6N makes up more than half the revenue and its unclear what would be included in the proposed €1billion, its a tournament so you'd think at least the broadcasting & sponsorship would have to be included, but that €1 billion would have to be pretty much the minimum generated or its just not worth doing for England at least.

Given the 6N has just seen its sponsorships slump from £11m annually to £6m and Club rugby has also seen its sponsorship value around half, I am deeply skeptical where this bumper pay day is coming from.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 04 Oct 2018, 18:33

sk 88 wrote:€1 billion is about £880,000,000.

Divided by 12 is £73.5m (more or less). The RFU's turnover is £184m, it splits down by a few things but not by autumn games v 6N. £153m is from ticket, broadcasting, sponsorship, hospitality. The AI's make up half the fixtures that year. Half the revenue of £153m is £76m.

So its likely the 6N makes up more than half the revenue and its unclear what would be included in the proposed €1billion, its a tournament so you'd think at least the broadcasting & sponsorship would have to be included, but that €1 billion would have to be pretty much the minimum generated or its just not worth doing for England at least.

Given the 6N has just seen its sponsorships slump from £11m annually to £6m and Club rugby has also seen its sponsorship value around half, I am deeply skeptical where this bumper pay day is coming from.


Champions Cup sponsorship has declined, but the Gallagher deal is a significant increase.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 11:32

Apparently, no one gives any figures any more.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 11:42

How the hell has the 6N sponsorship dropped by 50%?

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 13:24

Because the sponsorship market has changed and no one wants to buy it at the higher price anymore.

Ironically its the lack of geographic spread that is being partly blamed for not being able to access the higher values from the bigger companies.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 14:14

Just goes to show there’s a downside if it’s a closed shop.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 15:23

Because the sponsorship market has changed and no one wants to buy it at the higher price anymore.

Ironically its the lack of geographic spread that is being partly blamed for not being able to access the higher values from the bigger companies.


Must have missed. Is there an article about this?
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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 17:51


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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby victorsra » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 19:54

“The football competition delivers massive media coverage on a pan-European scale with advertising guarantees around it. It is very difficult to sell a (rugby) competition which has a limited geography.’


Hopefuly this can make a expansion and the introduction of promotion-relegation in the 6N be in the table. The solution for Europe is indeed a transformation in the 6N structure.
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