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World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term calend

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 05 Oct 2018, 22:08

I’ve been saying it for years, opening up the 6 nations will bring in more money. It’s not rocket science.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 08 Oct 2018, 11:36

sk 88 wrote:https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/31192/six-nations-cash-will-drop-to-just-6m-as-rugbys-sponsorship-market-shows-signs-of-decline/


Oh the irony. The year they excluded the very first German team from participating in the Challenge Cup for ridiculous (marketingwise) reasons, they realize, that a competition played in 4 countries might not be sustainable in a global market. What a surprise.

Apart from the Schadenfreude, this actually is serious for rugby. The vicious circle of not playing somebody because they are not good enough because they never play the best must be broken asap to stop creating more damage.

And the only chance is not a nations league, but a Euro + maybe a RWC qualification that includes everyone.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 16:40

Congratulations to Samoa on being appointed to the WR council. Hope they will have the best intersts at heart for t2 and t3 nations and not just PI's. :)

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... by-council

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Raven » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 17:17

Just read that article on the rugby paper, if all of it is true and not a yellow press / exagerated piece, then FFS, what a way of dropping the ball several times.

On the other hand, you see the big WC event being thrown to Qatar just "for the money", which isn´t also the essense of our sport, there should be a right balance of things.

I don´t know how opening the door to a promotion-relegation in the 6N could benefit the attaction of new sponsors. I have mixed feelings with this subject, despite I am all for more teams playing at a higher level and recognizing that for it to happen one of the things that should occur is these emerging teams playing more often with better sides, I don´t want the cost of a "one sided game" for years and years until we wait for a side to get better. Italy may be an example of that, Argentina we have to wait a bit longer. Got to admit the "League of Nations" or whatever name Pichot is going for, has something to it, not too keen on the 12 teams nor it happening that often; with that amount of teams it takes away the "RWC momentum". Maybe keeping the June & November test windows, but instead of "friendlies" making it a 6 teams or so league per group, 2 relegations / promotions every 2 years so all play once home and away in a lapse of 2 years, not to add more games to an already heavy calendar… TBH haven´t really given that much thought to it -part of me doesn´t really embrace that much change-, but hopefully whatever they do won´t spoil the fun of watching rugby only for marketing / money.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 09 Oct 2018, 19:48

Neptune wrote:Congratulations to Samoa on being appointed to the WR council. Hope they will have the best intersts at heart for t2 and t3 nations and not just PI's. :)

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... by-council


Fiji and Tonga don't have seats. Samoa both on and off the pitch is behind those two nations.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:22

Raven wrote:I don´t know how opening the door to a promotion-relegation in the 6N could benefit the attaction of new sponsors.


I also think it wouldn't now. They've wasted decades by arrogantly ignoring everybody around. First they need to make sure pro set-ups are created in all major European countries.

- Most important and easiest one: cancel all 6 Nations youth events (they don't create any money anyway) and only let them play in a European championship, as they already did before dropping out when Ireland and Scotland faced relegation. Make sure that all sides have the same rights. If i.e. Scotland gets relegated, that's their fault and they don't need a big strong father with a lot of money to protect them like a baby.

- This means sacrificing the Challenge Cup by giving one fixed place to Spain, Georgia, Russia (based on league performances in their national league) and 2 places to whoever finishes best of Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany etc. (those nations will have the chance of forming "selections" if they chose to do so). The Challenge Cup isn't exactly a cash cow now and those teams wouldn't hurt anyone. I see no easier way to create pro-setups.

- Additionally all of the REC nations also get one game a year against a 6 nations team at home. Do this for 5-10 years, then have a Euro in Lion's years, then slowly evolve to a 8-nation with promotion/relegation. It will take time after so many wasted years, but it will eventually pay off.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 08:25

TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:Congratulations to Samoa on being appointed to the WR council. Hope they will have the best intersts at heart for t2 and t3 nations and not just PI's. :)

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... by-council


Fiji and Tonga don't have seats. Samoa both on and off the pitch is behind those two nations.


With all the corruption Samoan rugby is known for, that's a surprise. Fiji would have been my first choice of the PI.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby rey200 » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 09:24

well, it's not a surprise. Manus manum lavat hehehe

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 09:30

Qualis rex, talis grex :D
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby amz » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 09:36

I am pleasantly surprised by your Latin skills :lol: :thumbup:

Corvus oculum corvi non eruit

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Silver Fox » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 11:32

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:I don´t know how opening the door to a promotion-relegation in the 6N could benefit the attaction of new sponsors.


I also think it wouldn't now. They've wasted decades by arrogantly ignoring everybody around. First they need to make sure pro set-ups are created in all major European countries.

- Most important and easiest one: cancel all 6 Nations youth events (they don't create any money anyway) and only let them play in a European championship, as they already did before dropping out when Ireland and Scotland faced relegation. Make sure that all sides have the same rights. If i.e. Scotland gets relegated, that's their fault and they don't need a big strong father with a lot of money to protect them like a baby.

- This means sacrificing the Challenge Cup by giving one fixed place to Spain, Georgia, Russia (based on league performances in their national league) and 2 places to whoever finishes best of Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany etc. (those nations will have the chance of forming "selections" if they chose to do so). The Challenge Cup isn't exactly a cash cow now and those teams wouldn't hurt anyone. I see no easier way to create pro-setups.

- Additionally all of the REC nations also get one game a year against a 6 nations team at home. Do this for 5-10 years, then have a Euro in Lion's years, then slowly evolve to a 8-nation with promotion/relegation. It will take time after so many wasted years, but it will eventually pay off.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 11:55

amz wrote:I am pleasantly surprised by your Latin skills :lol: :thumbup:

Corvus oculum corvi non eruit


Finally I some use for the 5 years I had Latin at school :D
sed nunc est bibendum 8-)
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Neptune » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 12:58

RugbyLiebe wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:
Neptune wrote:Congratulations to Samoa on being appointed to the WR council. Hope they will have the best intersts at heart for t2 and t3 nations and not just PI's. :)

https://www.radionz.co.nz/international ... by-council


Fiji and Tonga don't have seats. Samoa both on and off the pitch is behind those two nations.


With all the corruption Samoan rugby is known for, that's a surprise. Fiji would have been my first choice of the PI.


i thought so too

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Tobar » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 13:19

RugbyLiebe wrote:
amz wrote:I am pleasantly surprised by your Latin skills :lol: :thumbup:

Corvus oculum corvi non eruit


Finally I some use for the 5 years I had Latin at school :D
sed nunc est bibendum 8-)


Man it’s been long, 4 years in high school and the only time it comes up is when I try to speak Spanish and Latin comes out.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Tobar » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 13:25

Silver Fox wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:I don´t know how opening the door to a promotion-relegation in the 6N could benefit the attaction of new sponsors.


I also think it wouldn't now. They've wasted decades by arrogantly ignoring everybody around. First they need to make sure pro set-ups are created in all major European countries.

- Most important and easiest one: cancel all 6 Nations youth events (they don't create any money anyway) and only let them play in a European championship, as they already did before dropping out when Ireland and Scotland faced relegation. Make sure that all sides have the same rights. If i.e. Scotland gets relegated, that's their fault and they don't need a big strong father with a lot of money to protect them like a baby.

- This means sacrificing the Challenge Cup by giving one fixed place to Spain, Georgia, Russia (based on league performances in their national league) and 2 places to whoever finishes best of Portugal, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany etc. (those nations will have the chance of forming "selections" if they chose to do so). The Challenge Cup isn't exactly a cash cow now and those teams wouldn't hurt anyone. I see no easier way to create pro-setups.

- Additionally all of the REC nations also get one game a year against a 6 nations team at home. Do this for 5-10 years, then have a Euro in Lion's years, then slowly evolve to a 8-nation with promotion/relegation. It will take time after so many wasted years, but it will eventually pay off.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


What he said. Gotta play the long game and frankly not as many people care as much about Challenge Cup unless it’s their team playing so it’s fine to add extra teams there (though you’ll surely start getting people who all of a sudden care about the integrity of the competition)

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 10 Oct 2018, 19:49

I just realized I somehow lost Romania in my setup. It was meant to be with one fixed place like Spain, Russia, Georgia. That makes 6 teams in the Challenge Cup. 24 teams and the old FIFA scheme of a 24 team competition or as it is now with the 6 group winners and 2 lucky seconds making the quarters.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 05:05

Thinking about it again The league of nations idea might be the only way for t2/t3 to break into the test windows anytime soon on merit. So as long as promotion and relegation is guaranteed between the top 12 and the rest from the very start then im for it.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 06:13

As anyone read the interview of Brett Gosper in the Sydney Daily Telegraph ?
This French article talks about it : https://mobile.lemonde.fr/rugby/article ... 16937.html
But I'm very surprised by what it says : 6 nations and TRC games would be used for the League of Nations too ! I don't understand anymore what's the plan of this league
...

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 08:04

ihateblazers wrote:Thinking about it again The league of nations idea might be the only way for t2/t3 to break into the test windows anytime soon on merit. So as long as promotion and relegation is guaranteed between the top 12 and the rest from the very start then im for it.


I like your optimism, but I count ten teams in 6N and RC. The two remaining places are for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, Georgia, Romania, etc. Nobody is breaking into any test window anytime soon who hasn't already done.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby bolleje » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 08:11

I like your optimism, but I count ten teams in 6N and RC. The two remaining places are for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, Georgia, Romania, etc. Nobody is breaking into any test window anytime soon who hasn't already done.


Well, if they use the World Ranking... Italy would currently play in second division. That means the likes of Uruguay, Namibia, Germany, Spain could at least play against them.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 08:19

bolleje wrote:
I like your optimism, but I count ten teams in 6N and RC. The two remaining places are for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, Georgia, Romania, etc. Nobody is breaking into any test window anytime soon who hasn't already done.


Well, if they use the World Ranking... Italy would currently play in second division. That means the likes of Uruguay, Namibia, Germany, Spain could at least play against them.


They've already stated that the 6Nations and the RC are involved. They will do nothing which excludes a 6N or RC stakeholder. When they kill of a youth competition because one of their teams is threatened to be relegated, what will they do with an adult tournament? Don't be naive.
What they will do is start with 6N, RC, Fiji and Tonga(Japan). All the 6N and RC will stay on as they can't be relegated. Fiji and Tonga will playoff however and whoever comes up from another "2nd division".
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Silver Fox » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 10:42

vino_93 wrote:As anyone read the interview of Brett Gosper in the Sydney Daily Telegraph ?
This French article talks about it : https://mobile.lemonde.fr/rugby/article ... 16937.html
But I'm very surprised by what it says : 6 nations and TRC games would be used for the League of Nations too ! I don't understand anymore what's the plan of this league
...

I quote myself for how this could work in my perception:
silver fox wrote:Nowadays in November the 6N play 2 SH teams and 1 T2 nation.
In the proposed setup of the Nations League it is more or less the same: 1 SH team and 1 T2 nation counting for the Nations League and 1 SH team in a friendly.
Not much difference there.
(And if one is worried that it means some 6N teams should meet in November because they are in the same Nations League pool (6 nations to be spread over 4 pools) then consider making the last corresponding 6N match count for the table)
...
Very generally said the whole idea of this Nations League is finding a way to label a series of matches (15 out of 36) so they can be better marketed.

Not much is changing. That is why they can say that the long term agreement on the annual schedules still stands. Pool games can be found and scheduled within the new calendar.
The only change will be finding dates and locations for semis and a final.

That being said, I am anxious to find out how extensive the second tier will be, who will participate in it and how promotion-relegation will pan out.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 13:03

ihateblazers wrote:Thinking about it again The league of nations idea might be the only way for t2/t3 to break into the test windows anytime soon on merit. So as long as promotion and relegation is guaranteed between the top 12 and the rest from the very start then im for it.



And that's the crux. On what basis do we think it will be? There are only two age grade comps the unions ever had that in, and in the only one they ever even got into a relegation play off of they quit and played a new tournament among themselves.

Sorry to be cynical but a life time of following this game means I cannot believe the unions would allow themselves to be open to this kind of risk.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby Tobar » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 14:05

RugbyLiebe wrote:
bolleje wrote:
I like your optimism, but I count ten teams in 6N and RC. The two remaining places are for Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan, Georgia, Romania, etc. Nobody is breaking into any test window anytime soon who hasn't already done.


Well, if they use the World Ranking... Italy would currently play in second division. That means the likes of Uruguay, Namibia, Germany, Spain could at least play against them.


They've already stated that the 6Nations and the RC are involved. They will do nothing which excludes a 6N or RC stakeholder. When they kill of a youth competition because one of their teams is threatened to be relegated, what will they do with an adult tournament? Don't be naive.
What they will do is start with 6N, RC, Fiji and Tonga(Japan). All the 6N and RC will stay on as they can't be relegated. Fiji and Tonga will playoff however and whoever comes up from another "2nd division".


Theoretically, 6N and TRC teams could be relegated but it would be confusing as hell. They would still play their regular tournaments but then whatever games against them wouldn't count. So let's say Italy is relegated one year. They would still play in 6N but then those games wouldn't count towards the League of Nations. Then I would imagine the summer games are all LON with November being playoffs? Like I said, it could work but would be confusing and strange to see.

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Re: World Rugby announces historic agreement on long-term ca

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 11 Oct 2018, 14:55

It's just a naked power grab by the same old T1 cartel unions.

It grabs more time from the club game and grabs more games from the T2 unions just to feather their own nests. Its the most depressingly predictable development I can think of for years. Includes no one new, actively excludes people and fundamentally undermines the RWC the ONLY proper tournament we have.

In this proposal (6N & RC count in both) you have Aus, RSA, NZ and Arg playing a minimum of 14 tests a year, PLUS two weeks for play offs (played where and when exactly?), before we consider the incredibly slim chance that the pointless 3rd Bledisloe game will be ditched. It cannot work (literally cannot work, no dates available) if Italy are relegated and any non-European is promoted and would only work if a European team was also promoted to the 6N, which is not what is being proposed.

Its a genuinely awful and regressive idea.

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