2019 RWC Draw: 10 May 2017 Kyoto, Japan

[Thomas Profile]

I forgot to mention Uruguay beat Georgia in 2003 at the Aussie (SFS) Stadium, I was there at the time it was a good game very evenly matched. So Uruguay has won 2 RWC Matches in their history

[amz Profile]

Sorry, but this is not the time for the yearly Antim-brawl. Let's start this in February 2018.

what brawl? there is no opposition, you cannot be called a Lelo fan when you don't know what your favorite team did at RWCs

[Bogdan_DC Profile]

I dont see the point of the tracking RWC Matches won by country.Once upon a time we beat Fiji&Zimbabwe beat us at the WC.
If you still need to rank teams you have WR ranking and for example a possible repechaje team, Spain, is on 18th place. Much better than other countries who got chances for WC. But still no wins at the WC. This is means that Spain is weaker than Zimbabwe?

[RugbyLiebe Profile]

This all started with someone stating that Uruguay and Namibia where the worst two teams at the last world cup. And as much as my long-denied German colonistic soul bleeds: that's a simple fact. No matter how close it was or if somebody beat somebody else in 1593. Can we move on, please.

[GeoRugby Profile]

you cannot be called a Lelo fan when you don't know what your favorite team did at RWCs

Is this posted by an adult? Wow!

Can we move on, please.

I asked this person to do that yesterday but as you can see from his post, he still bumbling. CAN YOU MOVE ON?

[olivier Profile]

Considering it's better for some teams to lose to have a better spot is really ignoring the improvement of lower nations. Oceania 3 is not sure to win the playoff against Europe 2. North America 2 is not so sure to win playoff against South America 1. We could barely see an amazing repechage with Canada, Tonga, Hong Kong and Kenya.

[FLIDTA RISXVA Profile Website]

I'm fed reading tons of deliberations about pools
whilst NOBODY looks beyond initial stage,
ie what comes next - the real thing, play offs

If the bracket stays as it used to be this CENTURY

(A1 - B2) - (D1 - C2)
(B1 - A2) - (C1 - D2)

and X1 (logically) beats Y2 in QFs, then most probably

IRE (maybe RSA) clashes with AUS in one SF, and
NZL with ENG in another

Did Eddie Jones mention this, or is he kidding .. as ever

Pls, drop a qoute or link ...

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

Amongst the Antim tantrum, As someone whose team will play against Africa 1 and repechage teams, let me offer my opinion.

I think for the ABs it's a s**t draw and because yes, I believe those two teams will be the weakest two in the competition, as historically they have been (and the GEO-NAM RWC15 scoreline belies the fact that GEO were utterly dominant in that game besides a bewildering lack of finishing vision and class). It's sad that the draw allowed the two weakest teams to be put in the same pool for the first time in a RWC. ABs will RSA apart have a hopeless pool with Italy being pretty crap at mo and likely not too much better by 2019. I was hoping we'd have GEO and a PI team ala 2015 again which gave us good, solid workouts. I was at both GEO and TON v ABs and neither of those games were easy for the ABs though they ended up winning both comfortably enough in the end. Not this time though! Hopefully the RSA v ABs game will be the final game of the pool so at least we get a hard one before the QF.

As far as the opening game goes, I'd say the only unlikely team is Scotland, and the organisers will probably leave JPN v SCO till the last weekend of pool play. I would hope they play Europe 1 (Romania?) or Ireland first. If the playoff winner is a PI (Tonga?) that's a fall-flat on your face upset waiting to happen for Japan who don't have a good record against PI teams at all, allowing for the fact Japan did beat an off colour Samoa at RWC15.

Eddie Jones targeted all teams in 2015 and Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown will undoubtedly do the same in 2019 (They'll want to try as much as possible to actually top Group A for a better QF chance if they do proceed) so it was funny to see Irish commenters online afterwards saying Japan will be targeting Scotland not Ireland as though Ireland is unbeateable and safe. After 2015 I wouldn't be counting my chickens! So it's quite possible Japan will take the same "nothing to lose" attitude as they did v RSA in 2015 and play Ireland first up. A loss v Ireland as long as it's not a humiliation, and I'm pretty confident Japan will be good enough in 2019 to avoid that, won't be damaging to their campaign, unlike say one v Tonga. If they post a competitive and even better very close loss v Ireland most Japanese, seeing Ireland as the top seed in their pool will take the result ok. So again not a terrible way to start the RWC. And if they got the upset or even a draw it would be a great start.

Pool A isn't an absolute pool of death but like Pool D in 2015 it's overall a very balanced pool. The thing for Japan will be consistency of results and play. Mental focus on the job in all games. To me that's an area they've traditionally struggled in (Though it was very pleasing in 2015 that they went on to do the job v Samoa and USA rather than becoming one hit wonders) . They could possibly beat say Scotland, and then underestimating and losing to the likes of Romania and/or Tonga. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we had a three way 3 win 1 loss kind of look to this pool like Pool B in 2015 or some kind of even record for 2nd place in the pool. I hope Japan has learnt the importance of bonus points!

Are our Romanian brethren up for a big night opening the next RWC?

BTW the draw for the dates and venues of all the games is scheduled for mid-September. Ticketing is apparently targeted for sometime earlyish next year. I'd be very surprised if the ticketing format changed from 2015. Hopefully the Japanese govt will or has enacted already anti-tout laws around reselling so real fans don't get shafted like they did in 2015. that's one major improvement that could be made. lastly, in the Japanese press there's been a lot of crystal ball looking at where Japan will play their pool games. The executive director Shimazu wants Japan to travel all over the country but I'm sure Joseph will not agree to that. Given most of the big venues are in and around Tokyo I think most of Japan's games will be close to there. the opening game we know will be in Tokyo. If Ireland is not the opening game, I'm sure it will be at Nissan Yokohama Stadium, otherwise Scotland will be there. Ecopa Shizuoka is outside Tokyo-Yokohama but still fairly close and is the next biggest stadia so again probably has a high chance of a Japan game, and probably there will be one further afield, in either Hokkaido (Sapporo Stadium) or thye biggest of the three Kyushu Stadia in Oita, both of which are 40K+capacity against either Euro 1 or Playoff depending on who the opening game opposition is. The only thing is it would leave Kansai (Osaka-Kobe) without a Japan game which as the 2nd biggest rugby area in Japan would be controversial but the redeveloped Hanazono in Osaka and Kobe stadium are both only 30K. Possibly they might forgo a bigger capacity at Ecopa for a game at Hanazono and instead give Ecopa ABs and ENG games to make up for it. That's my crystal ball gazing!

[Bruce_ma_goose Profile]

I agree with most of that YK although think it is a good draw for NZ, SA and Oz. They will all be massively rested and at full health come the QFs and SA and NZ have avoided the most dangerous potential QF opponents. If they would be down to potentially face Oz, England or even France or Argentina in the QFs then I'd share your concerns.

I think their group is bad for RWC expansion as NZ in particular could run up a crazy points difference. If they can put up 40-50 points on their Southern Hemisphere opponents, what can they do against the two weakest teams in the draw?

A Japan vs Tonga opener also fills me with dread. I was so impressed by Tonga vs Spain and Italy in November, particularly as apparently it was a young side with a new coach. I think they are a potential trap game for Scotland too if they continue to develop.

Group A is fantastic with almost every contest likely to have interest and qualification implications when you factor in BPs.

[RugbyPUBtbilisi Profile]

Amongst the Antim tantrum, As someone whose team will play against Africa 1 and repechage teams, let me offer my opinion.

I think for the ABs it's a s**t draw and because yes, I believe those two teams will be the weakest two in the competition, as historically they have been (and the GEO-NAM RWC15 scoreline belies the fact that GEO were utterly dominant in that game besides a bewildering lack of finishing vision and class). It's sad that the draw allowed the two weakest teams to be put in the same pool for the first time in a RWC. ABs will RSA apart have a hopeless pool with Italy being pretty crap at mo and likely not too much better by 2019. I was hoping we'd have GEO and a PI team ala 2015 again which gave us good, solid workouts. I was at both GEO and TON v ABs and neither of those games were easy for the ABs though they ended up winning both comfortably enough in the end. Not this time though! Hopefully the RSA v ABs game will be the final game of the pool so at least we get a hard one before the QF.

When i said same thing about Namibia and Repechage one user here told me "Don't be so arrogant. You(He was meaning Lelos) won by 1 point vs Namibia in 2015 They weren't lucky enough to have Burger on the pitch for the duration of the match."

Welcome to arrogant's club mate.


By the way, hope Lelos will never play any match under George Clancy's whistle. Georgia vs Fiji (Nigel Owens!!!!!!)

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

I've got no worries about being rested. But fully ready for QFs? I guess if the last game is v RSA we'll be good to go, but we might be in 5th gear until then! I'm sure the B team will play at least one game v repechage or Africa 1 depending on the schedule so the lucky team that takes on the AB B squad will have a better chance of being competitive and not giving up too much of a cricket score as Namibia was able to do in 2015. But one team will get the top team or at least a mix with a good number of the top guys and that might be a 70-90 point roasting.

Yip I'm dreading the JRFU and host organisers will underestimate a team like Tonga (or Samoa if Tonga got the winning edge in PI qualifying this year) and put them as the opening game opponents. Yes I know we won't even know if it's Tonga when the schedule is announced and who knows the playoff winner could be the Euro team but. A loss in that game against those opponents would throw Japan's QF hopes immediately into jeopardy. And PI teams love being in a big event. Fiji were in no way overawed v England in 2015 and in 2011 Tonga took it to the ABs especially in the 2nd half leaving some qs over the ABs at the end of the game even though they won comfortably off the back of a good 1st half performance. I can see a Tongan or Samoan team relishing the chance to take down the hosts at their own party.

In contradiction Japanese sports teams have not shown themselves to be the best at dealing with pressure, especially the soccer team oft expected to do big things and mostly delivering little when it comes to world cups. Even in 2015 there was very little expectation on the Japan team and so little pressure, even v RSA there was really nothing to lose and little pressure until the last 10 mins when the players would've known they actually had the chance of pulling off the win. I often think Japan teams play better without the expectation and pressure. Well come 2019 there is gonna be a whole heap of expectation and pressure. Will Japan be able to handle it? That's why I think that actually playing Ireland first up is a good move. Yes there'll be pressure but a loss, as long as it's not too bad won't be the end of the world or ruin the opening party.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

Amongst the Antim tantrum, As someone whose team will play against Africa 1 and repechage teams, let me offer my opinion.

I think for the ABs it's a s**t draw and because yes, I believe those two teams will be the weakest two in the competition, as historically they have been (and the GEO-NAM RWC15 scoreline belies the fact that GEO were utterly dominant in that game besides a bewildering lack of finishing vision and class). It's sad that the draw allowed the two weakest teams to be put in the same pool for the first time in a RWC. ABs will RSA apart have a hopeless pool with Italy being pretty crap at mo and likely not too much better by 2019. I was hoping we'd have GEO and a PI team ala 2015 again which gave us good, solid workouts. I was at both GEO and TON v ABs and neither of those games were easy for the ABs though they ended up winning both comfortably enough in the end. Not this time though! Hopefully the RSA v ABs game will be the final game of the pool so at least we get a hard one before the QF.

When i said same thing about Namibia and Repechage one user here told me "Don't be so arrogant. You(He was meaning Lelos) won by 1 point vs Namibia in 2015 They weren't lucky enough to have Burger on the pitch for the duration of the match."

Welcome to arrogant's club mate.


By the way, hope Lelos will never play any match under George Clancy's whistle. Georgia vs Fiji (Nigel Owens!!!!!!)

well i agree with you but I guess the others are welcome to also have their opinion and disagree. Definitely Namibia were significantly improved and that's a positive for RWC but I'm 100% sure that both Tonga and Georgia where either the top AB team or closer to it played were harder opponents than Namibia for the ABs who definitely put up a B side for the Namibia game. Despite their welcome improvement Namibia along with Uruguay, who in their defense had the hardest job for a lower ranked team in RWC pool history, were the two lowest quality sides in 2015. Ergo...Africa 1 and repechage should not be in the same pool in 2019. But too late now!

[amz Profile]

Amongst the Antim tantrum, As someone whose team will play against Africa 1 and repechage teams, let me offer my opinion.

I think for the ABs it's a s**t draw and because yes, I believe those two teams will be the weakest two in the competition, as historically they have been (and the GEO-NAM RWC15 scoreline belies the fact that GEO were utterly dominant in that game besides a bewildering lack of finishing vision and class). It's sad that the draw allowed the two weakest teams to be put in the same pool for the first time in a RWC. ABs will RSA apart have a hopeless pool with Italy being pretty crap at mo and likely not too much better by 2019. I was hoping we'd have GEO and a PI team ala 2015 again which gave us good, solid workouts. I was at both GEO and TON v ABs and neither of those games were easy for the ABs though they ended up winning both comfortably enough in the end. Not this time though! Hopefully the RSA v ABs game will be the final game of the pool so at least we get a hard one before the QF.

As far as the opening game goes, I'd say the only unlikely team is Scotland, and the organisers will probably leave JPN v SCO till the last weekend of pool play. I would hope they play Europe 1 (Romania?) or Ireland first. If the playoff winner is a PI (Tonga?) that's a fall-flat on your face upset waiting to happen for Japan who don't have a good record against PI teams at all, allowing for the fact Japan did beat an off colour Samoa at RWC15.

Eddie Jones targeted all teams in 2015 and Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown will undoubtedly do the same in 2019 (They'll want to try as much as possible to actually top Group A for a better QF chance if they do proceed) so it was funny to see Irish commenters online afterwards saying Japan will be targeting Scotland not Ireland as though Ireland is unbeateable and safe. After 2015 I wouldn't be counting my chickens! So it's quite possible Japan will take the same "nothing to lose" attitude as they did v RSA in 2015 and play Ireland first up. A loss v Ireland as long as it's not a humiliation, and I'm pretty confident Japan will be good enough in 2019 to avoid that, won't be damaging to their campaign, unlike say one v Tonga. If they post a competitive and even better very close loss v Ireland most Japanese, seeing Ireland as the top seed in their pool will take the result ok. So again not a terrible way to start the RWC. And if they got the upset or even a draw it would be a great start.

Pool A isn't an absolute pool of death but like Pool D in 2015 it's overall a very balanced pool. The thing for Japan will be consistency of results and play. Mental focus on the job in all games. To me that's an area they've traditionally struggled in (Though it was very pleasing in 2015 that they went on to do the job v Samoa and USA rather than becoming one hit wonders) . They could possibly beat say Scotland, and then underestimating and losing to the likes of Romania and/or Tonga. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we had a three way 3 win 1 loss kind of look to this pool like Pool B in 2015 or some kind of even record for 2nd place in the pool. I hope Japan has learnt the importance of bonus points!

Are our Romanian brethren up for a big night opening the next RWC?

We were talking in a circle of rugby fans and come to the conclusion it would be awesome to play in the opening so yeah, I guess Oaks and fans would certainly enjoy the attention.

As for Antim tantrum it seems it is Lèse-majesté offense to have a different opinion about Georgia. We may like different styles of rugby, I certainly don't appreciate too much running amok into first opponent trying to see which one is stronger. This was the story of the match vs Namibia. Also I value J. Burger a lot as a player and losing him was a big issue, it's like Georgia would have lost Gorgodze. Than, at least for me, the match vs ABs was showing the limits of the Lelos and Kiwis didn't even need a game plan to win. If you watch the match you'll see how little halves were concerned by actual game management. It wasn't like they were alone on the field but it wasn't like they had any stress from Georgia at any time in the game.

Despite the general impression, I like Lelos, I like Gorgodze and few other players and certainly I appreciate the big progress they've made, it's just their gullible and arrogant fans from here who annoy me. I had very pleasant talks with Georgian rugby fans in RL , it seems here it isn't possible as they can't take any contrary opinion.

Amongst the Antim tantrum, As someone whose team will play against Africa 1 and repechage teams, let me offer my opinion.

I think for the ABs it's a s**t draw and because yes, I believe those two teams will be the weakest two in the competition, as historically they have been (and the GEO-NAM RWC15 scoreline belies the fact that GEO were utterly dominant in that game besides a bewildering lack of finishing vision and class). It's sad that the draw allowed the two weakest teams to be put in the same pool for the first time in a RWC. ABs will RSA apart have a hopeless pool with Italy being pretty crap at mo and likely not too much better by 2019. I was hoping we'd have GEO and a PI team ala 2015 again which gave us good, solid workouts. I was at both GEO and TON v ABs and neither of those games were easy for the ABs though they ended up winning both comfortably enough in the end. Not this time though! Hopefully the RSA v ABs game will be the final game of the pool so at least we get a hard one before the QF.

When i said same thing about Namibia and Repechage one user here told me "Don't be so arrogant. You(He was meaning Lelos) won by 1 point vs Namibia in 2015 They weren't lucky enough to have Burger on the pitch for the duration of the match."

Welcome to arrogant's club mate.

Do you feel that a Kiwi sharing your opinion legitimate yours?


LE: About Uruguay, let's not forget they played Fiji, Australia, Wales and England and they managed to show some really good rucking ability, especially vs England.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

amz, can't speak for the Georgians but from my end I said "I guess the others are welcome to also have their opinion and disagree". On Uruguay I also made the same comment as you about the draw they got in 2015. And yes I've been to both Romania & Georgia and enjoyed my time immensely in both.

Japan v Romania in June will be interesting with a bit more riding it with the possibility of the two meeting in 2019 and maybe in the opener. Would probably provide some good coverage of rugby in the Romanian media too.

[RugbyPUBtbilisi Profile]

I was looking forward to AB group and watch another Haka. But Aussies are also good.

AMZ, i dont need anyone to legitimate my opinion. But its funny that everyone who doesnt share yours, is arrogant.

2019 is ahead, but before, its 2017 summer. Interesting how will Milton hold against Argies in June. last time it was 29-18 in San-Juan. and disastrous performance in 2015.

I guess Argies will leave France or England behind in the Group in 2019. They have very good and young team and all of their players are Argies!!!

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

RugbyPub, mate, let's leave the A-word alone for a while and just agree to disagree with our friend amz? BTW I don't think you guys are playing Argentina anymore in June are you? I think the game was cancelled?

[GeoRugby Profile]

BTW I don't think you guys are playing Argentina anymore in June are you? I think the game was cancelled?

Georgia A was supposed to play Argentina XV and Uruguay on top of three tests of senior team, but one of the Argentine posters mentioned that THAT game has been cancelled. Georgia vs Argentina test is still on as far as I know. I don`t see why it would be cancelled.

[thatrugbyguy Profile]

I actually think it wouldn't be a bad idea if Japan played Romania on the opening night. The reason being is I think the theme for 2019 should be about breaking new ground and there's no better symbol of that than having two non-traditional rugby nations opening the tournament.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

Oh ok. I just saw on Americas Rugby News site a game was cancelled. Didn't know there was also supposed to be an A game too.