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British and Irish Lions Tour

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 08:20

Er, did you even read the article or at least open it to have some idea what it's referring to?
Gatland himself SAYS the call-ups ARE due to geographical proximity!
So, it is totally correct. Sighs.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Neptune » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 08:34

Zhenya_Zima wrote:Er, did you even read the article or at least open it to have some idea what it's referring to?
Gatland himself SAYS the call-ups ARE due to geographical proximity!
So, it is totally correct. Sighs.


Hehe, my bad, I didn't read the article. Sorry, looks like Gatland has cooked his own goose. :lol:

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 09:06

Neptune wrote:Last and not least, the Scots really need to pull their socks up. I mean how many touring Lions sides has had more than 4 scots in any side? The English, Welsh and Irish produce well over 8-9 chaps, and the Scots still lag behind. C'MON you Scots, do something. :P


Does beating Australia in Australia count? Not the fault of the Scots if the Lions coach wants to ignore players from the fifth ranked side in the world who defeated Ireland and Wales in their most recent meetings.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby honestly_united » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 09:11

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:
Neptune wrote:Last and not least, the Scots really need to pull their socks up. I mean how many touring Lions sides has had more than 4 scots in any side? The English, Welsh and Irish produce well over 8-9 chaps, and the Scots still lag behind. C'MON you Scots, do something. :P


Does beating Australia in Australia count? Not the fault of the Scots if the Lions coach wants to ignore players from the fifth ranked side in the world who defeated Ireland and Wales in their most recent meetings.


4th!!

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 09:50

I think WR have made an error and it is fifth. Either way, more than enough quality in such a side to produce more than two starters with the Lions in my opinion.

Unless Gatland doesn't think he has the ability to get the same out of the players as Cotter and Townsend do.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 11:00

Zhenya_Zima wrote:How can they not call it a disaster after this: http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/39022.php#.WUTZKhN95Bw ?
I mean as if Gatland hadn't devalued Lions caps enough with his Welsh hat, now giving out call-ups just if you happen to be in geographic proximity...


In 1993 Martin Johnson was called up to the Lions from England's tour of Canada, 24 years later and its not possible to get there from either Japan or Argentina?

Also what a shit bunch of players. Russell and Davies are fair enough as potential test players but Dell and Francis are shite, especially Francis he isn't even Exeter's starting tighthead! Who are Darcey and Hill? I've never even heard of them. Is this the "untouchable jersey" and "your Everest" as the marketing bullshit says or a Wales development tour?

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby dropkick » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 11:36

As I understand it, every players on a Lions tour gets at least £70k and £70k goes to the player's union. So Gatland is basically using the Lions to pump money into Welsh rugby. ;)

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Neptune » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 12:48

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:
Neptune wrote:Last and not least, the Scots really need to pull their socks up. I mean how many touring Lions sides has had more than 4 scots in any side? The English, Welsh and Irish produce well over 8-9 chaps, and the Scots still lag behind. C'MON you Scots, do something. :P


Does beating Australia in Australia count? Not the fault of the Scots if the Lions coach wants to ignore players from the fifth ranked side in the world who defeated Ireland and Wales in their most recent meetings.


Youre absolutely right Bruce ma Goose, beating the Aussies down under is a show of good things to come in future.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Neptune » Sat, 17 Jun 2017, 13:09

dropkick wrote:As I understand it, every players on a Lions tour gets at least £70k and £70k goes to the player's union. So Gatland is basically using the Lions to pump money into Welsh rugby. ;)


Ok, it now all makes sense, Gatland is canvassing for the Welsh to put more Gold in their coffers. Talk about a Gold rush :lol:

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Neptune » Tue, 20 Jun 2017, 12:17

Once again the lions reedeem themselves and beat the chiefs 34 - 6. Good job chaps. :thumbup: :)

https://www.lionsrugby.com/2017-tour/fixtures/

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby dropkick » Tue, 20 Jun 2017, 12:52

Neptune wrote:
dropkick wrote:As I understand it, every players on a Lions tour gets at least £70k and £70k goes to the player's union. So Gatland is basically using the Lions to pump money into Welsh rugby. ;)


Ok, it now all makes sense, Gatland is canvassing for the Welsh to put more Gold in their coffers. Talk about a Gold rush :lol:



£70k is a lot of money for most professional rugby players. The average salary is probably less that that.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 21 Jun 2017, 20:26

dropkick wrote:
Neptune wrote:
dropkick wrote:As I understand it, every players on a Lions tour gets at least £70k and £70k goes to the player's union. So Gatland is basically using the Lions to pump money into Welsh rugby. ;)


Ok, it now all makes sense, Gatland is canvassing for the Welsh to put more Gold in their coffers. Talk about a Gold rush :lol:


£70k is a lot of money for most professional rugby players. The average salary is probably less that that.


Neptune refers to the "£70k goes to the player's union" part.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 02:49

Scotland would have more players on tour if their players were good enough as individuals. I agree that these recent Welsh callups are a joke but to be frank who gives a shit, the midweek and test team are going to be split now and it's all about winning the series.

Seymour and Laidlaw have been attrociously bad and they're supposedly 2 of Scotland's best players. One good season in nearly 20 years and now Scotland are world class? Simmer down.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 07:59

The rankings don't lie for Scotland. And they would have been in a RWC semi but for an atrocious decision by Joubert. Whilst another home nation couldn't get out of the group stages despite home advantage.

If Gatland chose to pick only two players from the 5th ranked side in the world but 16 (?) from the 7th ranked side then it suggests he considers Vern Cotter to have been a superior coaching talent, to smash Wales and best Ireland with such "inferior" players.

If Gatland gets anything other than a 3-0 loss then he would be vindicated a bit though.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby dropkick » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 08:57

The pro12 is a more accurate indicator than one off internationals. Two Scottish teams finished 6th and 9th. Ireland and Wales averaged higher and have 4 teams each.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby honestly_united » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 09:48

In Glasgows defence this year we would have finished top 4 if we had had a kinder fixture list. During the international windows Glasgow lose at least 15 players and are hit hardest of all the Pro12 teams, and this years we got Scarlets H&A, Ospreays H&S and Ulster which we lost, and the only easy game was against the Dragons which we won.

If we had swapped 2 of those for Trevisio, Zebra or Cardiff we would have been top 4.

And as for not good enough players, Russell made Dan Carter look decidely average in 2 games in Europe this year, Johnny Grey went about 10 internationals not missing a tackle, while being in the top 3 players for tackles made each game, Hamish Watson single handedly destroyed the entire Welsh back row when he came on in the 2nd half this year, and John Barclay has just led the Scarlets to the Pro12 title, and at scrum time if there is a better prop than Nel in the NH I have yet to see them.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Figaro » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 10:05

dropkick wrote:The pro12 is a more accurate indicator than one off internationals. Two Scottish teams finished 6th and 9th. Ireland and Wales averaged higher and have 4 teams each.


Cory Hill plays for the Dragons (finished 11th), Dacey for the Blues (finished 7th) and Tomas Francis doesn't even play in Wales, so you can hardly claim that their sides' respective Pro12 rankings played a role in what players were selected.

Gareth Davies was probably the legitimate next choice at Scrum-half, and Francis is at least the first choice (or thereabouts) TH of a 6N side. I'm a fan of Hill and Dacey but wouldn't say they belong anywhere near a B&I XV, or even 46...

What annoys me is that all four would be far more use playing for Wales vs. Samoa than warming a bench. There's every likelihood Samoa will now beat Wales. Hill's departure means the locks left in the squad have only one cap between them, and that was gained against Tonga last week.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 10:23

Figaro wrote:What annoys me is that all four would be far more use playing for Wales vs. Samoa than warming a bench. There's every likelihood Samoa will now beat Wales. Hill's departure means the locks left in the squad have only one cap between them, and that was gained against Tonga last week.

Few years ago for sure, but now Samoa looks really bad. IMO they are clearly the 3d in Pacific after Fiji&Tonga.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby amz » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 10:44

I totally agree about Scottish players. Gatland's selection is clearly biased toward Wales and Ireland. If some Irish players managed to beat NZ, you cannot say the same about Wales which is a dive when it comes to form.

I would have expected to see at least Russell, Gray, Nel, Barclay.

Halfpenny had a very average season, he shouldn't be there, Biggar is off form etc. etc. and all those Welsh players called in haste shows such a poor planning.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Figaro » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 12:09

amz wrote:Halfpenny had a very average season, he shouldn't be there, Biggar is off form etc. etc. and all those Welsh players called in haste shows such a poor planning.


In-form Welsh players don't even get picked for the Welsh side, so are hardly going to make the Lions...

Apparently this was planned from the start though - Cory Hill was training with the Lions before they left for NZ.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 15:33

Figaro wrote:
dropkick wrote:The pro12 is a more accurate indicator than one off internationals. Two Scottish teams finished 6th and 9th. Ireland and Wales averaged higher and have 4 teams each.


Cory Hill plays for the Dragons (finished 11th), Dacey for the Blues (finished 7th) and Tomas Francis doesn't even play in Wales, so you can hardly claim that their sides' respective Pro12 rankings played a role in what players were selected.

Gareth Davies was probably the legitimate next choice at Scrum-half, and Francis is at least the first choice (or thereabouts) TH of a 6N side. I'm a fan of Hill and Dacey but wouldn't say they belong anywhere near a B&I XV, or even 46...

What annoys me is that all four would be far more use playing for Wales vs. Samoa than warming a bench. There's every likelihood Samoa will now beat Wales. Hill's departure means the locks left in the squad have only one cap between them, and that was gained against Tonga last week.


He's not even his club's starting tighthead!

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Thu, 22 Jun 2017, 17:19

dropkick wrote:The pro12 is a more accurate indicator than one off internationals. Two Scottish teams finished 6th and 9th. Ireland and Wales averaged higher and have 4 teams each.


I disagree. The Irish and Welsh internationals are spread over 4 teams. The Italian and Scottish internationals are spread over two teams. It's why clubs from the latter countries lose almost every game when international players are unavailable.

And yes, Seymour and Laidlaw haven't been great, but no Lions back player has really achieved their national side form on the tour so far as they struggle to gel and/or adapt to Gatland and Howley.

Ive no axe to grind as I'm personally delighted at the lack of Scottish players in the Lions as I was keen to see them have a competitive crack at the Wallabies. I just think Gatland is a very poor judge of player quality or totally obsessed by player physique over passing and line break potential.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Neptune » Sat, 24 Jun 2017, 08:39

The All blacks are leading 13 -8 at half time. Pretty good fight by the Lions I must say.

From previous history, the two teams have played 38 games with the Lions winning only 6.

I wonder if History will favour the All blacks or the Lions will pull an upset.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 24 Jun 2017, 09:09

All Blacks have looked comfortable all game.

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Re: British and Irish Lions Tour

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 24 Jun 2017, 11:48

If Crotty and Ben Smith hadn't been injured that would have been a 30+ point victory margin. Some pluck from the Lions but there are far too many backs in the squad who can't do basic passing and as such, they'll continue to squander a huge amount of chances inside the opponent's 22.

Really impressed by the All Black pack, they were in no way inferior. 3-0 is inevitable.

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