Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby sammo » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 01:09

RivalBlue wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:
RivalBlue wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:I don't know how anyone can blame Anscombe. The Canadian players aren't good. The sport is horribly managed at all levels.

The announcers were talking about rhe sport growing in spades in San Diego. Where is it growing in Canada? Nowhere.


Only place Rugby is growing in Canada right now is with League. Where the Wolfpack are getting decent crowds, good results and a few code converts.


League isn't growing in Canada, especially anymore than Union.

Wolfpack aren't getting decent crowds consistently, most tickets are given away for free, and they play in Toronto and are winning...so of course people will jump on the wagon. As soon as they start losing and aren't branded as "new" they will fade away. They are getting decent media coverage however.


You're flat out wrong there man. Wolfpackis getting bigger crowds than our national side atm.


I'm going to need sources for that LMAO.


Yeah, totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. Wolfpack approx. 7000, Canada vs USA over 13000, not even close really

Edit: I actually overestimated Wolfpack attendance, average home game is around 6700, with the most recent match getting 6100...

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby GentsRugger » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 01:21

Did the two tests in Alberta even reach 7,000 combined? ruckovercdn isn't completely wrong...

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 01:26

GentsRugger wrote:Did the two tests in Alberta even reach 7,000 combined? ruckovercdn isn't completely wrong...


Yes that's what I was thinking.

Besides I think these are salient points. The original point of League in some sort of "growth" is clear, they now have a club team that averages over 6,000 a game in a low level league up from being effectively non existent before this, bar a couple of international tests. Union is almost certainly in decline with the exception of the Women's side of the game.

I'm not saying League will catch Union anytime soon and RivalBlue might be correct in that it stalls out, but it had "some" momentum which Union clearly does not. The guys that run league in Canada are forward thinking, energetic and have passion something lacking in the Union hierarchy.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 02:09

I think if you reversed the descriptions of the league guys for union it would be accurate: backwards looking, tired and out of ideas.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby RivalBlue » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 02:15

GentsRugger wrote:Did the two tests in Alberta even reach 7,000 combined? ruckovercdn isn't completely wrong...


I believe they both averaged about 5000, but do not quote me on that.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 02:17

LittleGuy wrote:First time I've ever seen Canada actually quit on a game. They don't care at this point. This last ten minutes have been the worst I've ever seen Canada play.

Does Anscombe survive?


Eddie Jones and Steve Hansen combined couldn't conjure Ray Barkwill, Andrew Coe, Dan Moor, Nick Blevins and Brett Beukeboom over this current USA team, let alone to international success above and beyond.

The thing with rugby in Canada nowadays is: nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, there are committed people, but everyone I see is tired of the losing, the structures that make no sense, the declining numbers, the absence of any plan or leadership. On and on it goes. Frankly I'm embarrassed that I've spent so much of my adult life on something that's basically a joke that attracts primarily losers and weirdos.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 03:12

It's an athlete problem. We used to have a smattering of Top tier Euro Pros that could keep it close. Watching the match today, we were out-athleted, pure and simple. The US lacks some of the polish of the Pacific Isles, Romania, Georgia, etc. They make up for it with freak athletes. Look at their backline compared to ours, their players looked like tractor trailers next to our half tonnes.

Did anyone find Dan Moor has no pace whatsoever?

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 04:27

Canadian_Rugger wrote:It's an athlete problem. We used to have a smattering of Top tier Euro Pros that could keep it close. Watching the match today, we were out-athleted, pure and simple. The US lacks some of the polish of the Pacific Isles, Romania, Georgia, etc. They make up for it with freak athletes. Look at their backline compared to ours, their players looked like tractor trailers next to our half tonnes.

Did anyone find Dan Moor has no pace whatsoever?


Couldn't agree more, as athletes we are way outgunned. Dan Moor has little pace and is small. Beukeboom has one speed: slow. Barkwill is a midget. Coe is tiny. Blevins has the agility of modern Adam Jones. Heaton is undersized. Three of our players are barely even Canadian. Our best athlete today was who? Sears Duru? Braid? Not to knock the players as they give their all.

If you are a good to great athlete what does rugby offer? You can pay $500, travel every weekend, injure yourself, get shit coaching, pay to fly to Newfoundland for a tryout and then, if you're lucky, get to move out to Vancouver Island and do sweet Fuck all. You play in a cornfield with a game streamed so poorly that it's unwatchable. Then you lose 20 games in a row. You'd be better off as a reserve lineman on a mediocore CIS team. Could you sell that 18 year old on rugby? Likely not.

I would be embarassed to bring a great athlete to the average club practice. This is where the game starts remember, if this doesn't function then nothing up the chain will function since that great athlete never even got introduced or quit.

I watch some top level club games and there are players that can't pass, move, or are completely out of shape. Second rows that are sub 200 lbs, front rows that are fat blobs. I watch Queens, top uni team, and they are well coached and fit, but there isnt a single beast on the field, nobody I'd be physically afraid of.

The guys funneled to the top are better players from this pool.

This isn't to slag club rugby, it needs to be improved and Rugby Canada and the Provinces need to take leadership. They are in large part the reason it's terrible.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 04:29

For me that was some good Rugby to watch five rows up in that venue.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 04:58

Canadian_Rugger wrote:It's an athlete problem. We used to have a smattering of Top tier Euro Pros that could keep it close. Watching the match today, we were out-athleted, pure and simple. The US lacks some of the polish of the Pacific Isles, Romania, Georgia, etc. They make up for it with freak athletes. Look at their backline compared to ours, their players looked like tractor trailers next to our half tonnes.

Did anyone find Dan Moor has no pace whatsoever?


With Paris and DTH out we had what, three guys playing top flight rugby overseas in the lineup today?

Ardron - Super Rugby
Hearn and Olmstead - Premiership(with low table teams)

Ilnicki, Duru and O'Leary were recently on top flight sides but were let go after not seeing much action.

Baillie, Beukeboom, Carpenter are on RFU Championship sides.

Tierney is at Pau in D2 but more at an academy level, , though only two of them started.

So three top flight guys.

Four 2nd tier pro's.

Three other recent pros.

A couple of the other guys get occasional trots out in 7's but less than they used to.

Edit: Sorry Heaton is in National League 1, I think Piffero might still be lurking in Federale 1 as well, the third tier of European leagues.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 13:35

What is the attendance in San Diego?
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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 13:43

victorsra wrote:What is the attendance in San Diego?


Stadium capacity was 8,700. It looked pretty full.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby Suiram » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 15:21

I feel like 5 years ago most of Canada's side would be playing in the RFU Championship. So even if they lost their stars like DTH and Paris they'd still have real professionals.

Whereas the biggest difference for the US I think is that instead of having a handful playing at a very high level, our squad is much closer to professional. Despite losing Titi, Peterson, Manoa, and Scully we still have a largely professional team especially forward pack (just minus our props). Backs are a bit more mixed but Mcginty is the key and the others are largely in the 7s program (only useful if it's really a high quality environment).

Looking at the late scoring, the biggest thing the US could probably not have done in past years is have a bench with the caliber of players like: Taufetee, Tameilau, and Durutalo.
Last edited by Suiram on Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 20:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 17:14

marvinparsons wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:First time I've ever seen Canada actually quit on a game. They don't care at this point. This last ten minutes have been the worst I've ever seen Canada play.

Does Anscombe survive?


Eddie Jones and Steve Hansen combined couldn't conjure Ray Barkwill, Andrew Coe, Dan Moor, Nick Blevins and Brett Beukeboom over this current USA team, let alone to international success above and beyond.

The thing with rugby in Canada nowadays is: nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, there are committed people, but everyone I see is tired of the losing, the structures that make no sense, the declining numbers, the absence of any plan or leadership. On and on it goes. Frankly I'm embarrassed that I've spent so much of my adult life on something that's basically a joke that attracts primarily losers and weirdos.



I agree except for the weirdo's and losers comment.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 18:03

What i find embarrassing is the lack of dignity in playing and losing. Since when do you lose and smile after the game when talking to the other players. There is a culture with this team that they can just show up play and leave. Their is no accountability in how they play. Yesterday they all stunk, and i wouldn't have half of them back

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 03:32

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:
victorsra wrote:What is the attendance in San Diego?


Stadium capacity was 8,700. It looked pretty full.


Stadium Capacity for Torero Stadium is 6,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torero_Stadium

As I was there, the actual number I had was 4,900. There was no reason for it not to be sold out given the venue size and how much of a hot bed So Cal Rugby Union is. There was again, no marketing done by RIM locally. Everything went via email, twitter, and facebook. The problem with that is the Padres were in town against the Dodgers and that's a tough sporting series to compete against. So that's a failure. Also, no team sheets available, I also did not know DTH was out until I rolled over this morning.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 06:34

I'd go with the local knowledge over the broadcasters (who provided the 8700 figure as capacity).

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 23:14

RivalBlue wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:
RivalBlue wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:I don't know how anyone can blame Anscombe. The Canadian players aren't good. The sport is horribly managed at all levels.

The announcers were talking about rhe sport growing in spades in San Diego. Where is it growing in Canada? Nowhere.


Only place Rugby is growing in Canada right now is with League. Where the Wolfpack are getting decent crowds, good results and a few code converts.


League isn't growing in Canada, especially anymore than Union.

Wolfpack aren't getting decent crowds consistently, most tickets are given away for free, and they play in Toronto and are winning...so of course people will jump on the wagon. As soon as they start losing and aren't branded as "new" they will fade away. They are getting decent media coverage however.


You're flat out wrong there man. Wolfpackis getting bigger crowds than our national side atm.


I'm going to need sources for that LMAO.


Wolfpack is averaging 7,000 a game, or just under. Twin Oaks doesn't even seat half that, neither does Ellerslie or Calgary Rugby Park. Oh and let's not even talk about the fact that we play 4 "tests" a year at fucking Langford, capacity 1500. Just because the game at Hamilton sold well does not mean that's the norm.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 23:17

sammo wrote:Yeah, totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. Wolfpack approx. 7000, Canada vs USA over 13000, not even close really

Edit: I actually overestimated Wolfpack attendance, average home game is around 6700, with the most recent match getting 6100...


That's one game; if you based the Ospreys average match attendance on Judgment day you'd be getting skewed numbers as well. We play our ARC matches at a venue with a capacityof 1500, Ellerslie and CRP are maybe 3 000 each.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 23:19

RivalBlue wrote:
GentsRugger wrote:Did the two tests in Alberta even reach 7,000 combined? ruckovercdn isn't completely wrong...


I believe they both averaged about 5000, but do not quote me on that.


I think the expanded capacity at Ellerslie only brings it up to around 3000. Keep in mind that other side of the field is a grass berm.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby sammo » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 00:13

ruckovercdn wrote:
sammo wrote:Yeah, totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. Wolfpack approx. 7000, Canada vs USA over 13000, not even close really

Edit: I actually overestimated Wolfpack attendance, average home game is around 6700, with the most recent match getting 6100...


That's one game; if you based the Ospreys average match attendance on Judgment day you'd be getting skewed numbers as well. We play our ARC matches at a venue with a capacityof 1500, Ellerslie and CRP are maybe 3 000 each.


Not just one game, WP vs Oxfold got 6,281 and WP vs Hunslet got 6,042. Actual average attendance is 6,675.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby ruckovercdn » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 01:05

My one game was the Can USA in Hamilton. Not the Wolfpack games.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 03:37

snapper37 wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:First time I've ever seen Canada actually quit on a game. They don't care at this point. This last ten minutes have been the worst I've ever seen Canada play.

Does Anscombe survive?


Eddie Jones and Steve Hansen combined couldn't conjure Ray Barkwill, Andrew Coe, Dan Moor, Nick Blevins and Brett Beukeboom over this current USA team, let alone to international success above and beyond.

The thing with rugby in Canada nowadays is: nobody cares. Don't get me wrong, there are committed people, but everyone I see is tired of the losing, the structures that make no sense, the declining numbers, the absence of any plan or leadership. On and on it goes. Frankly I'm embarrassed that I've spent so much of my adult life on something that's basically a joke that attracts primarily losers and weirdos.



I agree except for the weirdo's and losers comment.


The weirdos and losers is true in many circumstances, because the good people quit due to the sport being a shit show. I've seen it many times over unfortunately.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 04:08

May I ask why does Rugby Canada still persists with playing tests at such tiny venues like Langford? USA Rugby seems to be moving closer to 10K+ seat stadiums every year regardless of who the opposition is. Surely if the Hamilton test shows anything it's that people would probably prefer to watch these matches in modern stadiums. I get that it's probably not cheap to rent venues like BC Place and BMO Stadium but if it means getting another 3000-4000 bums on seats surely it's worth the price.

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Re: Men's CANAM Series-WC Qualifiers

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 05:27

thatrugbyguy wrote:May I ask why does Rugby Canada still persists with playing tests at such tiny venues like Langford? USA Rugby seems to be moving closer to 10K+ seat stadiums every year regardless of who the opposition is. Surely if the Hamilton test shows anything it's that people would probably prefer to watch these matches in modern stadiums. I get that it's probably not cheap to rent venues like BC Place and BMO Stadium but if it means getting another 3000-4000 bums on seats surely it's worth the price.


2500 butts in seats at a venue you own. Would help to build another stand. It just cuts down their costs since they have dormitories, medical, and S&C facilities on site. That's my only guess.

USAR doesn't have any land.

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