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Samoa Rugby

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby rugby.change » Fri, 15 Sep 2017, 13:09

Former Samoan head coach Titimaea Tafua announced as the "new" head coach for Manu Samoa!

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby amz » Tue, 24 Oct 2017, 08:07

Samoa announced squad for November tests.

http://misterxv.blogspot.ro/2017/10/sam ... de-la.html

Pretty strong team but there are some big names missing.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 24 Oct 2017, 12:10

Young fly half D'Angelo is missing. Any particular reason for that? I think he is great prospect for Samoa.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Immenso » Tue, 24 Oct 2017, 18:30

Bogdan_DC wrote:Young fly half D'Angelo is missing. Any particular reason for that? I think he is great prospect for Samoa.


Just not picked by the new coach, apparently.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/ ... amoa-squad
The biggest intrigue is at first five with Rohan Saifoloi and AJ Mamoe Alatimu to battle it out for the number ten jersey, after incumbents Tusi Pisi and D'angelo Leuila were overlooked by returning head coach Fuimaono Titimaea Tafua.

The duo represented Australia and Samoa respectively at Under 20 level and earned their call-ups after impressing for the Sydney Rays and Brisbane City in the Australian National Rugby Championship.


Edit, actually no that's wrong. He has an injury:
http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/ ... bankruptcy

He said Saifoloi and Alatimu have been playing at a good level in Australia and were the best options available.

"D'angelo (Leuila) at the moment is carrying an injury - he's not been cleared until the third week of November, I think, so he's not ready," he said.

"And Tusi Pisi we already contacted him and maybe he's not available so that's why we've been busy to spend two weeks to look for a first five, but those are the two that make themselves available for us".

Fuimaono said Tusi Pisi and D'angelo Leuila remain in the selection mix for next year's crucial World Cup qualifying matches, while there are other options within the squad for the upcoming tests against Scotland, Romania and England.

"We've selected Kahn (Fotuali'i) so he might cover the first five as well if (required) - Kahn can play first five too but Rohan is doing well in Australia. He's playing a similar (level) to Mitre 10 Cup in New Zealand".

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby AXLstockholm » Tue, 24 Oct 2017, 22:14

Great to see Samoan selectors keeping a close eye on the National Rugby Championship this season. There are countless players in this competition eligible for the Pacific Island nations. Thank you ARU.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Muzzy » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 06:56

AXLstockholm wrote:Great to see Samoan selectors keeping a close eye on the National Rugby Championship this season. There are countless players in this competition eligible for the Pacific Island nations. Thank you ARU.


Surprised to see no Ed Fidow there though, he's been on fire in the NRC. Unless he turned it down

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 18:07

Fantastic improvement by Samoa against Scotland with their new coach. Some optimism for them on the field on this evidence. Not many teams will score 38 points at Murrayfield and it was pretty much a first choice Scottish lineup.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 18:39

Wow impressive performance from Manu Samoa. Havent watched the match yet but i will watch it for sure.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby AXLstockholm » Wed, 06 Dec 2017, 05:46

More All Blacks want to play for Pacific Island nations: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11952640

So now players like Ma'a Nonu, Charles Piutau, Victor Vito and Steven Luatua want to play for Samoa and Tonga at the next World Cup if modified eligibility rules allow them.

To be honest, I think it's ridiculous if former All Blacks with 30-40 caps for New Zealand suddenly become eligible for the Pacific Islands.

You can't have the best of all worlds and expect to receive everything: Play for the All Blacks, then play in Europe on a mega salary and finally play for Samoa/Tonga at the last minute as a "last hurrah" at the World Cup.

I really feel for players like Frank Halai who received 1-2 caps for the All Blacks (with no realistic long-term future for the All Blacks) and become barred from playing for the Pacific Islands but I guess it was ultimately their decision.

World Rugby must find a way for Samoa/Tonga/Fiji players to be paid decent salaries during the test matches, otherwise why would a young promising player of Pacific descent play for them? One cap for All Blacks makes you more marketable in European Rugby.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 06 Dec 2017, 07:39

AXLstockholm wrote:World Rugby must find a way for Samoa/Tonga/Fiji players to be paid decent salaries during the test matches, otherwise why would a young promising player of Pacific descent play for them? One cap for All Blacks makes you more marketable in European Rugby.


This whole discussion has simply nothing to do with reality.
Both Samoa and Tonga had the MOST foreign born players at the last World Cup (13/12) there was not a single Samoan born player in another squad and from the Tongan ones, one was lured to Japan at 16 and one later. The rest ALL moved abroad at a very young age. The PI are simply crying like little babies, when they are actually the ones most profiting from neighbouring the best rugby educational system in the world. AND are treated the best from World Rugby of all t2+3 nations.
Have a look yourself: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2015/0 ... -rwc-2015/
It is great that they are supported, but the Mimimi is simply annoying.

Fiji is a different story, but they are not really involved in this whole former All Black changing eligibility discussion.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Immenso » Thu, 07 Dec 2017, 21:20

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Both Samoa and Tonga had the MOST foreign born players at the last World Cup (13/12) there was not a single Samoan born player in another squad and from the Tongan ones, one was lured to Japan at 16 and one later. The rest ALL moved abroad at a very young age. The PI are simply crying like little babies, when they are actually the ones most profiting from neighbouring the best rugby educational system in the world. AND are treated the best from World Rugby of all t2+3 nations.


How is this? Genuine question.
I've found it interesting looking up how WR fund T2 and T3 rugby.
But how are the PIs treated better than other T2 and 3 nations? Extra funding?

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Immenso » Thu, 07 Dec 2017, 21:30

AXLstockholm wrote:More All Blacks want to play for Pacific Island nations: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11952640

So now players like Ma'a Nonu, Charles Piutau, Victor Vito and Steven Luatua want to play for Samoa and Tonga at the next World Cup if modified eligibility rules allow them.

To be honest, I think it's ridiculous if former All Blacks with 30-40 caps for New Zealand suddenly become eligible for the Pacific Islands.

You can't have the best of all worlds and expect to receive everything: Play for the All Blacks, then play in Europe on a mega salary and finally play for Samoa/Tonga at the last minute as a "last hurrah" at the World Cup.

I really feel for players like Frank Halai who received 1-2 caps for the All Blacks (with no realistic long-term future for the All Blacks) and become barred from playing for the Pacific Islands but I guess it was ultimately their decision.

World Rugby must find a way for Samoa/Tonga/Fiji players to be paid decent salaries during the test matches, otherwise why would a young promising player of Pacific descent play for them? One cap for All Blacks makes you more marketable in European Rugby.


I would like Halai to go back and play for Tonga. He is genuinely Tonagn born and raised and only moved ot NZ on scholarship.

But I wouldn't go as far as to "feel sorry for him" because he only got 1 cap.

He did also play at least an entire year of international 7s for NZ before his cap, so he was already nation-tied.

It looks like he was a late developer, looking at Wiki. Didn't even make NPC level until he was 22, played 7s for NZ at 24 and got a Super Rugby contract at 25. Also became an All Black at 25, but had given it up by 27 for a career in Europe.

He'll have the opportunity of using the Olympic loophole, he'll be about 30 then and aged 31 at time of 2019 RWC. But he is a year younger than the current Tongan wings (Halaifonua & Vuna) but 3 years older than Telusa Veainu, so he will be of use.

The Olympic loophole takes a bit of financial sacrifice, lets see how much he wants it.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 07 Dec 2017, 22:31

Immenso wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Both Samoa and Tonga had the MOST foreign born players at the last World Cup (13/12) there was not a single Samoan born player in another squad and from the Tongan ones, one was lured to Japan at 16 and one later. The rest ALL moved abroad at a very young age. The PI are simply crying like little babies, when they are actually the ones most profiting from neighbouring the best rugby educational system in the world. AND are treated the best from World Rugby of all t2+3 nations.


How is this? Genuine question.
I've found it interesting looking up how WR fund T2 and T3 rugby.
But how are the PIs treated better than other T2 and 3 nations? Extra funding?


Well, considering the total populations of the three and then the recorded playing figures. There could be a case made in favour of RL position. The region that being primarily the 'Big Three' (relative to the other playing pops in the region) have had $35m AUD allocated to them during this current RWC cycle. It was actually recently increased. Considering that they have only designated around $45m or so for the other regions combined I would suggest they are being well taken care of.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 08:44

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Immenso wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Both Samoa and Tonga had the MOST foreign born players at the last World Cup (13/12) there was not a single Samoan born player in another squad and from the Tongan ones, one was lured to Japan at 16 and one later. The rest ALL moved abroad at a very young age. The PI are simply crying like little babies, when they are actually the ones most profiting from neighbouring the best rugby educational system in the world. AND are treated the best from World Rugby of all t2+3 nations.


How is this? Genuine question.
I've found it interesting looking up how WR fund T2 and T3 rugby.
But how are the PIs treated better than other T2 and 3 nations? Extra funding?


Well, considering the total populations of the three and then the recorded playing figures. There could be a case made in favour of RL position. The region that being primarily the 'Big Three' (relative to the other playing pops in the region) have had $35m AUD allocated to them during this current RWC cycle. It was actually recently increased. Considering that they have only designated around $45m or so for the other regions combined I would suggest they are being well taken care of.


This.
-Then the Qualifying route. Europe had 2,5 qualifying places, Asia had one. After Georgia automatically qualified to RWC 2019 the one place of Georgia was taken away and there were 1,5 left and 0,125 in Asia (playoff/repechage). While Oceania got 2,75 places (2 out of 3 between Samoa, Fiji, Tonga + playoff/repechage (0,625) + antoher playoff/repechage (0,125) for the two team competition Tahiti vs. Cook Islands (where now Tahiti seems to even be disqualified)).

- And then you just have to look at the games they get every year compared to Georgia, Romania and good forbid Russia, Spain or Germany. Altough I have to admit this got better in the last two-four years. But the PI are in no position, to blame anybody apart from themselves about not being threated well by World Rugby in any aspect.

I want to clarify that I am actually not against any of the support the PI get. They are extremely important for global rugby. But my understanding stops, when they believe to be mistreated and if their preferation stops global growth in new cultural markets like in Europe or Asia because the Cookies/Tahiti get an extra RWC-qualifying route.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 11:36

Fiji is also Pacific team and they are getting better and better. Tonga is steadily strong, and Samoa is regressing very fast. What is unfortunate of course.

It needs better management not more money. Existing finances is enough for small countries to keep stadiums, training centres, staff and all the wages for national team players.

So SRU better hire some good manager rather than whining about financial aid. Descent coach will also be useful. Titimaea Tafua is not a good choice.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 12:02

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Fiji is also Pacific team and they are getting better and better. Tonga is steadily strong, and Samoa is regressing very fast. What is unfortunate of course.

[b]]It needs better management not more money.[/b Existing finances is enough for small countries to keep stadiums, training centres, staff and all the wages for national team players.

So SRU better hire some good manager rather than whining about financial aid. Descent coach will also be useful. Titimaea Tafua is not a good choice.


Pretty much this. Fiji is currently the strongest of the three and are seeing increasingly better results thanks largely to getting many of their major issues sorted in the past few years. It's not perfect but its much improved. The Flying Fijians with the same prep time as many T1 nations are very comfortable in their company. They have the Drua in the NRC and they are increasingly featuring at the varying age grade structures of the game in Australia (they entered a team in one of our national championships this year).

So, with the right management in place they can be competitive. It's just getting them to that point.

The biggest issue in the region is the SRU. It's a bloody mess. And I seriously doubt it'll be resolved anytime soon with the Samoan PM also being the Chairman of the SRU.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 12:22

To be fair and put things in perspective:
populations
Fiji 900.000
Samoa: 187.000
Tonga: 100.000

Samoa and Tonga will always heavily rely on eligible Kiwis and Ozzis simply due to their small size. Everything above their level is artificial, be it a very good Tongan expat generation in New Zealand are otherwise. Fiji is probably the only one of those nations with potential and yes they are doing a very good job atm.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby rey200 » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 13:49

Samoans in AUS/NZ: 200k
Tongans in AUS/NZ: 100k

gives a hint why they have so many foreign born players

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 14:05

rey200 wrote:Samoans in AUS/NZ: 200k
Tongans in AUS/NZ: 100k

gives a hint why they have so many foreign born players

Plus this players are educated in much better systems that their own.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 15:01

You know what makes it tough to keep people...lack of economic opportunity. The French aren't really draining the Islands...now how the Kiwis and Breadnickers will go scout and bring families over when they found a kid, that's a bit messed up. But they end up providing an economic opportunity for that family.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 08 Dec 2017, 23:17

TheStroBro wrote:You know what makes it tough to keep people...lack of economic opportunity. The French aren't really draining the Islands...now how the Kiwis and Breadnickers will go scout and bring families over when they found a kid, that's a bit messed up. But they end up providing an economic opportunity for that family.


Breadnickers!!!

Let's not go down this path buddy.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Immenso » Sun, 10 Dec 2017, 21:13

I really think there is something rotten with rugby in Samoa at the moment. They simply aren't producing the players any more. I'm meaning genuine Samoan born/raised payers (even including kids 'poached' on scholarships to NZ schools).

I just can't think of many youngish Samoan produced players at the moment who are any good apart from a few;
- Melani Nanai
- Nepo Laulala (scholarship kid)
- his brother Luterua Laulala (he's quite handy but I doubt NZ level and think he will 'game' the NZ system for a little longer and eventually declare for Samoa)
- Alapati Leiua (who came to NZ as a scholarship kid at 16),

If I look at the current Samoan team on wikipedia the only other Samoa produced players are old; Fa'asalele, Fa'asavalu, Lemi

Where as Tonga seem to be producing players like crazy for their size;
- NZ SR or NPC teams have a Tongan prop or 2, or they've moved on to Eurpean riches (Halonukonuka, Tokolahi, Aulika, Uhila, Fisi'ihoi, Fahamokioa etc)
- Fifita, Fekitoa, Halai are recent Tongan scholarship kids who became ABs
- other good (non-prop) Tongan produced guys in current Tongan test team; Halaifonua, Kalamafoni, Taione
- there are recent Tongan scholarship kids in NRL (Kata, Hurrell)
- good Tongan produced guys in NZ doemstic rugby currently; Shannon Frizzel, Latu Vaeno
- Tongan produciton line for Japanese (Mafi, Moekiola etc)
- Lopeti Timani & Tongan Thor in Aus

I've left Fiji out of this discussion as they've always been dependent on home produced players.

Both Samoa and Tonga obviously have plenty of heritage players within the pool, on top of the above. BUt the heritage to home produced balance for Samoa is the worst I've seen.
Last edited by Immenso on Mon, 11 Dec 2017, 21:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby Immenso » Sun, 10 Dec 2017, 21:43

Since posting that above I've done a bit of a trawl through the club squads of the European professional leagues on wikipedia to see if there are more Samoan produced players I'm omitting or forgetting.

I've also come up with;
Elia Elia
Mulipoli
Fa'osiliva
Tuifua
Perez

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 11 Dec 2017, 08:01

Thanks Immenso for bringing more facts to the discussion. Good read.

Does Tonga have dedicated performance centres?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Samoa Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 11 Dec 2017, 14:32

Working Class Rugger wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:You know what makes it tough to keep people...lack of economic opportunity. The French aren't really draining the Islands...now how the Kiwis and Breadnickers will go scout and bring families over when they found a kid, that's a bit messed up. But they end up providing an economic opportunity for that family.


Breadnickers!!!

Let's not go down this path buddy.


I'm not your buddy, guy!

Only a little jibe.

Samoa is a small country of 115k, there's only so many genetic outliers you can have over the course of a generation.

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