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Americas Rugby

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 12:09

rey200 wrote:Just saw this... so Colombia might really be the next big thing, right?


Well theyre investing a lot in their youth game so hopefully the sport grows exponentially. Rugby didn’t really exist in the country before 1995 so they’re taking big jumps. Most cities I know of have teams (even smaller cities like Barranquilla and Santa Marta on the coast).

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 14:35

Bogotá and Cali should be the next step to grow rugby in the country. After that there would be a very good population base to form new players.
Last edited by qwerty on Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 17:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 04 Sep 2018, 15:45

Bogota alone would be great. The metro area has a population of 10 million and the weather is basically always Autumn London in Autumn and perfect for rugby. I'm pretty sure Bogota is already a close second when it comes to rugby participation but Medellin is definitely the hotbed of rugby in the country.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 14:46

I stumbled upon this old article about Colombia rugby's player - found this stat interesting:

However, it experienced a renaissance in 2004 thanks to a handful of amateur local rugby players. Backed by a French rugby coach and Mr Gómez, then a physical education teacher working for the regional government, the sport has increased from 500 players to more than 10,000. Unlike other South American nations such as Argentina, Chile and Uruguay, where the sport established itself as an institution in the upper echelons of society, more than 75 per cent of Colombia’s rugby players come from the most impoverished and violent backgrounds, such as Mr Diosa.


https://www.ft.com/content/34651834-5e4 ... 144feab49a

If this stat is true then this is definitely a good sign for rugby in Colombia. It's always good to have wealthy current/former players to help prop up the sport financially but I don't think rugby could truly take off in South America unless it appeals to the masses.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 15:33

Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 16:21

It's also good that this is the setup from the start rather than starting more upper class and trying to get everyone else involved. From my experience in the US (specifically NY/NJ), rugby has been both upper and lower class and there isn't a real distinction. Obviously teams/players with more money have more opportunity but this is the case with any sport. As I learn more about other countries though it really comes across as a barrier to entry. Favoritism towards certain universities exists in places like Australia but in the US we're honestly just happy to have a guy with experience come join us.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 16:29

qwerty wrote:Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.



Not anymore. Varsity Rugby in Brazil I would say is in decline. Very bad shape now. The vast majority of Brazilian rugby teams are not related anymore to universities. But universities are the origin of many clubs and many clubs use university fields.
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 16:34

victorsra wrote:
qwerty wrote:Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.



Not anymore. Varsity Rugby in Brazil I would say is in decline. Very bad shape now. The vast majority of Brazilian rugby teams are not related anymore to universities. But universities are the origin of many clubs and many clubs use university fields.


So teams are mostly independent clubs now?

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 16:44

Yes.

Some clubs play both. Poli is the most clear exemple of this double identity. They have their main squad playing as a club, with players that don't even studied in that institution. Many professional Tupis players included. And the students play in their B squad university competitions.

Engenharia Mackenzie is a open club but composed mostly by current and former students and play both club and varsity rugby.

FEA and Medicina are only playing club rugby as they have more former students than current students. ]

Rugby USP is a women's club that plays Brazil's top competitions. They are originated inside the university but it is like Mackenzie, a open club, but mostly composed by students.

But São Paulo's Varsity Championship and Copa USP have other 7 teams many mens and womens sevens sides that are only univeristy students-only teams.

All those teams are from São Paulo City, the only place where there is true varsity rugby.

Rio is the only other place with varsity rugby, but only sevens and few teams.

In other places many clubs were born inside local universities and became the clubs of the city, not anymore students-only teams. This means yes, the origin is indeed varsity rugby. But they aren't varsaity teams anymore. And dont play varsity competitions. They play only club rugby and draw players without any specific criterea. Too many exemples: São Carlos, Ribeirão Preto, Inconfidentes Ouro Preto, Uberlândia, Universitário Santa Maria, GRUA (Manaus), Xavantes (Goiânia), Delta (Teresina)...
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 17:44

victorsra wrote:
qwerty wrote:Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.



Not anymore. Varsity Rugby in Brazil I would say is in decline. Very bad shape now. The vast majority of Brazilian rugby teams are not related anymore to universities. But universities are the origin of many clubs and many clubs use university fields.


In case anyone was curious there are some university teams in Colombia as well. I don't fully understand how universities work in South America compared to the US (I know they start school around 16 instead of 18 and typically follow a very specific major from the get go) but it seems like they have physical education courses that will include playing a team sport like rugby, soccer, volleyball, etc. Those classes are held at night and are basically the same as a practice. This is what they do in Barranquilla at least, can't speak for Medellin or Bogota but I assume it's the same.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 17:50

Tobar wrote:
victorsra wrote:
qwerty wrote:Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.



Not anymore. Varsity Rugby in Brazil I would say is in decline. Very bad shape now. The vast majority of Brazilian rugby teams are not related anymore to universities. But universities are the origin of many clubs and many clubs use university fields.


In case anyone was curious there are some university teams in Colombia as well. I don't fully understand how universities work in South America compared to the US (I know they start school around 16 instead of 18 and typically follow a very specific major from the get go) but it seems like they have physical education courses that will include playing a team sport like rugby, soccer, volleyball, etc. Those classes are held at night and are basically the same as a practice. This is what they do in Barranquilla at least, can't speak for Medellin or Bogota but I assume it's the same.


I attend a public university here in Montevideo, no sports offered at all, just the curricular courses. Maybe it's different in Colombia.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 17:54

One bizarre thing in our PE courses is that almost none have rugby teams....

Only 2 universities here have more than one team. Mackenzie, which is split in Engenharia (Engeneering, that is a open club now) and Direito (Law) teams. There used to be a team called Pacto ("Pact", formed by the rest of Mackenzie schools, but it is sevens only now).

USP (University of São Paulo), in the other hand, the tradicional hotbed, has 7 schools with 15-a-side rugby teams: Poli (Engeneering, that has the varsity team and the open semi-professional club), FEA (Economics and Business, an open club but only in the 3rd division), Medicina (Medicine), Farmácia (Pharmaceutical Sciences... yes, it is traditional among them and they founded a club called Urutu Rugby Clube, open club that plays the 2nd division.. but they still have the students-only squad), Direito São Francisco (Law), FFLCH (Social Sciences, History, Philosophy, Letters) and Física (Physics, that tries to hire people from other non-rugby schools.. they call themselves Demônios = Demons, a Barbarians-like students-only team). FAU (Architecture) used to play together with ECA (Journalism, Marketing and Arts), but this team died recently (they are the foundations of União Rugby Clube, a 3rd division club). So, where are the PE guys? PE rugby players are now with Poli, as they are the only one with a solid club project (as I explained before). In fact, at USP, Direito, FFLCH and Demônios are the only purely students sides... the rest are involved with club rugby and alumni.
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 18:15

This topic if rugby in universities got into my mind today when I was looking at the dirt pitch of a children's soccer accademy that is directly adjacent to my campus. I imagined how good it would be if URU could collaborate with this academy, which has a pitch in a privileged location. They could put an artificial pitch and dual goals, and then invite people from campus to play rugby.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 19:19

qwerty wrote:
Tobar wrote:
victorsra wrote:
qwerty wrote:Absolutely, this gives Colombia a potential edge over the 5 traditional SA rugby countries. In Argentina, Uruguay, Chile and Paraguay people are introduced to rugby usually through the most expensive private schools. In Brazil it's a university sport, if I'm not wrong, which in the South American context is still in the ABC1 demographic.



Not anymore. Varsity Rugby in Brazil I would say is in decline. Very bad shape now. The vast majority of Brazilian rugby teams are not related anymore to universities. But universities are the origin of many clubs and many clubs use university fields.


In case anyone was curious there are some university teams in Colombia as well. I don't fully understand how universities work in South America compared to the US (I know they start school around 16 instead of 18 and typically follow a very specific major from the get go) but it seems like they have physical education courses that will include playing a team sport like rugby, soccer, volleyball, etc. Those classes are held at night and are basically the same as a practice. This is what they do in Barranquilla at least, can't speak for Medellin or Bogota but I assume it's the same.


I attend a public university here in Montevideo, no sports offered at all, just the curricular courses. Maybe it's different in Colombia.


It appears to be an actual course but I think it’s just an athletic requirement so you stay in shape. There are colleges in the US that have a requirement for 1 physical education class but I’m pretty sure you have flexibility with what you can do.

Here is the website for a school in Barranquilla where it includes rugby:

https://www.uninorte.edu.co/web/bienest ... deportivos

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 20:22

victorsra wrote:One bizarre thing in our PE courses is that almost none have rugby teams....

Only 2 universities here have more than one team. Mackenzie, which is split in Engenharia (Engeneering, that is a open club now) and Direito (Law) teams. There used to be a team called Pacto ("Pact", formed by the rest of Mackenzie schools, but it is sevens only now).

USP (University of São Paulo), in the other hand, the tradicional hotbed, has 7 schools with 15-a-side rugby teams: Poli (Engeneering, that has the varsity team and the open semi-professional club), FEA (Economics and Business, an open club but only in the 3rd division), Medicina (Medicine), Farmácia (Pharmaceutical Sciences... yes, it is traditional among them and they founded a club called Urutu Rugby Clube, open club that plays the 2nd division.. but they still have the students-only squad), Direito São Francisco (Law), FFLCH (Social Sciences, History, Philosophy, Letters) and Física (Physics, that tries to hire people from other non-rugby schools.. they call themselves Demônios = Demons, a Barbarians-like students-only team). FAU (Architecture) used to play together with ECA (Journalism, Marketing and Arts), but this team died recently (they are the foundations of União Rugby Clube, a 3rd division club). So, where are the PE guys? PE rugby players are now with Poli, as they are the only one with a solid club project (as I explained before). In fact, at USP, Direito, FFLCH and Demônios are the only purely students sides... the rest are involved with club rugby and alumni.


That's more abnormal than it is normal comparatively to the US. We have intra-mural sports but those aren't based on degree program.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 20:49

That's more abnormal than it is normal comparatively to the US. We have intra-mural sports but those aren't based on degree program.


First point: University sports in Brazil (and in many Latin American countries) are for fun, they don't receive real funding for high performance from the institutions.

Second: Everything is around the degree program, there are no other types of students associations. They are tied to the program. This means sports competitions inside the universities are faculty/school/institute vs faculty/school/institute.

Third: In big universities like USP the rivalries are between the faculties. No one gives a damn about USP as an unified team playing another university. We care about our intra-USP rivalries (Copa USP, the USP Cup, and Interusp, the USP Olympics). And inter-universities rivalries are usually based on degrees. If you are from the Law School (Direito/São Francisco) in USP you want to beat the Law School from Mackenzie (Direito Mackenzie). There are degree "olympics", that are the core of varsity sports in Brazil: huge parties that oppose universities based on courses. Exemple: Engenhariadas (the Olympics of Engeneering), Economiadas (the Olympics of Economics and Business), Jogos Juridicos (Juridic Games, the Olympics of Law), etc. This is particularly true for smaller universities that are focused on something (like some engineering colleges or economics colleges that dont have other degrees).

Therefore, this is the origin of many rugby teams. This also happened in Portuguese and Spanish rugby AFAIK....

However, apart from USP and Mackenzie in São Páulo (both universities started rugby in the 1960s, but there are older registers of rugby in both institutions), rugby is a small thing and some teams are born representing the whole university in cities where there are no other rugby club - and as those ties are not strong, it is normal that the varsity quickly becomes the city's team as an open club.
Last edited by victorsra on Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:18

BTW, let me tell nice stories about how important are those University links in São Paulo's Rugby

Inside USP, the "big 4" schools are Poli (Eng.), Direito São Francisco (Law), Medicina (Medicine) and FEA (Economics and Business). Richest student associations with intense rivalries in all sports. Their rugby teams were born between the 1960s and 1970s.

It is not surprising why Poli alumni are puting money in the team to make it a national powerhouse, a almost professional club. São Francisco and Medicina, in the other hand, are now very close to Band Saracens and Pasteur, two main São Paulo clubs. São Francisco's field is used by Band Saracens and Medicina's field is used by Pasteur, and both must find their way: if they want to make real partnerships with those clubs or if they want to follow Poli's path. FEA wants Poli's path and they are favorites in São Paulo's 3rd division now, I bet they'll be in 2nd division next year, but as a club. Let's see. They need rich alumni to fund their project.

Farmácia (Pharmaceutical Sciences) and FFLCH (Letters, History, Geography, Phillosophy,Sociology, Anthropology) are younger. Farmácia was born in the late 1990s and they became really strong, beating the big 4 and now they founded Urutu Rugby Clube, a open club, following Poli's path too.

FFLCH (my team) was born in 2001, founded by a Geography student that went to Australia. He returned, started the team and in 2004, when he left, he founded the Instituto Rugby Para Todos (RPT), famous worlwide as a social project that develops rugby in one of São Paulo's largest favelas, Paraisópolis. RPT plays competitions as the Leões de Paraisópolis (Paraisopolis Lions), The two most famous RPT players are Robert Tenorio (plays for the Tupis) and Bianca Silva (plays for the Yaras... a Womens Sevens Series young star now).


Well, FFLCH has no ties to the RPT, but later the team itself helped creating other USP younger teams, FAU/ECA team (Architecture + Arts/Journalism/Mkt, now União Rugby Clube) and Demônios (the Physics + others team). And Portal do Rugby :lol:
Last edited by victorsra on Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:23

I wish my university had these kinds of things. I think a lot of people would support our faculty in tournaments against the other ones. Especially engineering (my school), because there is a lot of faculty pride.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:35

TheStroBro wrote:
victorsra wrote:One bizarre thing in our PE courses is that almost none have rugby teams....

Only 2 universities here have more than one team. Mackenzie, which is split in Engenharia (Engeneering, that is a open club now) and Direito (Law) teams. There used to be a team called Pacto ("Pact", formed by the rest of Mackenzie schools, but it is sevens only now).

USP (University of São Paulo), in the other hand, the tradicional hotbed, has 7 schools with 15-a-side rugby teams: Poli (Engeneering, that has the varsity team and the open semi-professional club), FEA (Economics and Business, an open club but only in the 3rd division), Medicina (Medicine), Farmácia (Pharmaceutical Sciences... yes, it is traditional among them and they founded a club called Urutu Rugby Clube, open club that plays the 2nd division.. but they still have the students-only squad), Direito São Francisco (Law), FFLCH (Social Sciences, History, Philosophy, Letters) and Física (Physics, that tries to hire people from other non-rugby schools.. they call themselves Demônios = Demons, a Barbarians-like students-only team). FAU (Architecture) used to play together with ECA (Journalism, Marketing and Arts), but this team died recently (they are the foundations of União Rugby Clube, a 3rd division club). So, where are the PE guys? PE rugby players are now with Poli, as they are the only one with a solid club project (as I explained before). In fact, at USP, Direito, FFLCH and Demônios are the only purely students sides... the rest are involved with club rugby and alumni.


That's more abnormal than it is normal comparatively to the US. We have intra-mural sports but those aren't based on degree program.


This isn't an exact comparison but there are law, medicine, business, etc. schools that have their own rugby club. Chicago Booth (MBA program) and Albany Law are two examples I can think of off the top of my head. But I don't know of any undergrad programs that have clubs for each school/department of the university.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 05 Sep 2018, 21:50

Yeah, very different university cultures. Here is everything about the departments.

Farmácia (Pharmaceutical Sciences) and FFLCH (Letters, History, Geography, Phillosophy,Sociology, Anthropology) are younger. Farmácia was born in the late 1990s and they became really strong, beating the big 4 and now they founded Urutu Rugby Clube, a open club, following Poli's path too.

FFLCH (my team) was born in 2001, founded by a Geography student that went to Australia. He returned, started the team and in 2004, when he left, he founded the Instituto Rugby Para Todos (RPT), famous worlwide as a social project that develops rugby in one of São Paulo's largest favelas, Paraisópolis. RPT plays competitions as the Leões de Paraisópolis (Paraisopolis Lions), The two most famous RPT players are Robert Tenorio (plays for the Tupis) and Bianca Silva (plays for the Yaras... a Womens Sevens Series young star now).


Best thing were our game codes, shouting philosophers' names in the lineout :lol: Not that efficient, but what matters is the fun :) Playing the Medicine guys they decided to payback and shout bones names :x
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 19:17

qwerty wrote: I attend a public university here in Montevideo, no sports offered at all, just the curricular courses.


http://www.ligauniversitaria.org.uy

There's over 100 men's football teams, most of them related to private high schools or sports clubs. No univerdity rugby here.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby qwerty » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 19:23

NaBUru38 wrote:
qwerty wrote: I attend a public university here in Montevideo, no sports offered at all, just the curricular courses.


http://www.ligauniversitaria.org.uy

There's over 100 men's football teams, most of them related to private high schools or sports clubs. No univerdity rugby here.


They aren't university teams, they're associated to other entities such as schools and clubs.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 07 Sep 2018, 03:51

I guess at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter, there are still no rugby clubs.

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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 19:10

I talked to the Brazilian Rugby Union on Monday and they told me that it is a possibility to have in 2020 a cup between LAR and MLR best teams in June. This means both LAR and MLR running from February to May/early June.

And indeed the ARC will probably be in August/September.
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Re: Americas Rugby

Postby Tobar » Wed, 12 Sep 2018, 19:13

That’s soon, isn’t that the first year for LAR?

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