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2017-18 Continental Shield

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Raven » Tue, 07 Aug 2018, 16:50

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:I wonder if any other German sides will be approached, or has European Professional Club Rugby Ltd lost a BIG opportunity to develop players in a higher standard and get a new market going


Fixed that for you. Maybe it was just used as an excuse by Wild to retreat from German rugby altogether. But it still puzzles me, how you can be that short-sighted to deny a club from the biggest European economy who rightfully qualified and who would have been the first club ever from that country to play in the competition. It is like those guys at EPCR would leave a 100 Euro bill on the floor, just because the vowed to themselves, that they won't bow to anyone that day.

But I concur, that I don't see a German club taking part this season and for the near future.


I thought like that for a while, but then one also has to look at the full picture, the Union / Verband did not get involved at all with the project, or try and formulate a solution for a problem that will pay it´s toll. I refuse to think this is all the EPCR fault... also specially if they at least made an official statement explaining the situation had been debriefed with Wild.
But anyway, regardless who´s fault it is, it´ll take time to build something of the sort.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 08 Aug 2018, 07:46

Raven wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Raven wrote:I wonder if any other German sides will be approached, or has European Professional Club Rugby Ltd lost a BIG opportunity to develop players in a higher standard and get a new market going


Fixed that for you. Maybe it was just used as an excuse by Wild to retreat from German rugby altogether. But it still puzzles me, how you can be that short-sighted to deny a club from the biggest European economy who rightfully qualified and who would have been the first club ever from that country to play in the competition. It is like those guys at EPCR would leave a 100 Euro bill on the floor, just because the vowed to themselves, that they won't bow to anyone that day.

But I concur, that I don't see a German club taking part this season and for the near future.


I thought like that for a while, but then one also has to look at the full picture, the Union / Verband did not get involved at all with the project, or try and formulate a solution for a problem that will pay it´s toll. I refuse to think this is all the EPCR fault... also specially if they at least made an official statement explaining the situation had been debriefed with Wild.
But anyway, regardless who´s fault it is, it´ll take time to build something of the sort.


As I actually stated ("maybe it was just used as an excuse by Wild") I don't think that its entirely EPCR's fault. But god dammit, this was still the opportunity for the EPCR to grow their game. If growing the audience and their brand is their job, they absolutely messed up. No matter if a billionaire had his own goals, this was their chance. And they didn't hold on to it, but gave the big fish a chance to escape by stupidly stating that a community club can't take part, because the sponsor has another team.
And this unbelievable stupidity, to even take the blame for this, makes you absolutely do a neverending face-palm.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 07:42

SEEN something

@

ITA apriori has FOUR teams

For 4 vacant spots only ONE team per country: GEO GER SPN BEL POR ...

They say, ROM and RUS already represented in Challenge

Hence, no room for Krasny Yar :?:
so unfairly and purposfully demoted last season

@

Criteria for INVITATION:

1) competitiveness in Shield
2) financial sustainability
3) possession of PRO stuff -- as if EPCR have it themselves :!:
4) potential competitiveness in Challenge

@

SAME clumsy format -- POOL vs POOL
in OCT and DEC = 4 weekends

A: RE1, Calvisano, RE3, Roma
B: Padova, RE2, Rovigo, RE4

:?: One Pool could destroy another but
a pair of the latter would nevertheless QUALIFY
with NEGATIVE | UNDER 50% record

@

SAME stupid play-off -- once again CROSS-POOL :oops:

H&A: A1 = B2 and B1 = A2 in JAN

This leads to PARADOX that
after 6 games two pairs will have met 3 times
as Batumi and Timisoara last season

@

Winners of aforementioned H&A will square off
with Enisey and Timisoara, also H&A, in MAR-APR
for two spots in Challenge 2019-20

@

And finally, the only LOGICAL gem:

No FINAL this season ... in Newcastle for,
as they say, SPORTING and BUDGETARY reasons

Hallelujah :!:

@

*PS* Pls, somebody dare and tell EPCR | FIR | RE
to stop bringing the Game into disrepute (as per WR terms)
and organize a PROPER comp

If they can't ... WE can, this FORUM, provide a decent FORMAT

@

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 07:57

I am very, very curios who will participate this year. OK, 1 team from Georgia and...?

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 08:05

It seems unfair to accept just one team per nation, if four italian teams are allowed; if a club wants to play and it has good economical and technical parameters it should be accepted, within a reasonable limit of, let's say, 12 teams. If they don't accept romanian and russian teams and if the spanish ones have no will to participate the level of the competition risks to go down instead of increasing.
I'm also disappointed by the cancellation of the final: a tournament without a final is just a qualifying competition and it will have even less appeal for fans and sponsors. Who will take the shield without a final? Budgetary and sporting reasons, Flidta wrote: budgetary, ok, I understand, but which are the sporting reasons to drop off a final?
If all these rumors highlighted by FR were confirmed I would be a bit disappointed

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 08:09

Marco, I'm already pissed off ... step by step they destroy hopes of any development

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 08:13

Canalina wrote:It seems unfair to accept just one team per nation, if four italian teams are allowed; if a club wants to play and it has good economical and technical parameters it should be accepted, within a reasonable limit of, let's say, 12 teams. If they don't accept romanian and russian teams and if the spanish ones have no will to participate the level of the competition risks to go down instead of increasing.
I'm also disappointed by the cancellation of the final: a tournament without a final is just a qualifying competition and it will have even less appeal for fans and sponsors. Who will take the shield without a final? Budgetary and sporting reasons, Flidta wrote: budgetary, ok, I understand, but which are the sporting reasons to drop off a final?
If all these rumors highlighted by FR were confirmed I would be a bit disappointed


I never understood the budgetary reasons. Why not let them play before one of the other finals. Fans will come in earlier and have more drinks/food in the stadium. Apparently in Bilbao the pitch which looked like a 9th division soccer club's "stadium" was well visited and so well done by the organisators.

Again and again it shows that EPCR have no single plan to grow outside of their initial market. And that's absolutely shocking. What opportunity they are wasting you can see with every single NFL game shown in Europe.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 08:38

What a joke.

This is easy. If you want the best Tier 2 clubs in Europe, don't impose nationality barriers. They are in Russia and Romania. If you want diversity, then pay for it because the markets you are targetting won't be competitive unless you invest something on them.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Raven » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 08:53

Am I the only one that thinks 4 Italian teams is a bit too much considering there´s only 8 teams altogether in this competition? They seem to have done this with the intention to help more Italian teams playing in a higher level but this hasn´t worked and backfired with emerging countries spending real money and focusing on this as their main competition...

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 09:06

We are focused on qualifying to the Challenge Cup. This year we forbid the admission of russian and romanian clubs; if it doesn't work, next year we will allow to the Shield just the clubs with italian as official language, so six clubs from Italy and two from the Switzerland's italian canton. If also that was not enough we would study something else

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Raven » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 09:11

Canalina wrote:We are focused on qualifying to the Challenge Cup. This year we forbid the admission of russian and romanian clubs; if it doesn't work, next year we will allow to the Shield just the clubs with italian as official language, so six clubs from Italy and two from the Switzerland's italian canton. If also that was not enough we would study something else


:lol:

Yeah, sorry, my message may have sounded aggressive, but no offence. If it makes it better, I am all in for a 3rd Italian franchise in Pro14, have said it before, and will continue to express it (definitely would have made more sense than bringing the South Africans), but I feel the Shield is overpopulated with Italian teams with no real reason, considering the Tier 2 / 3 countries hardly ever get a chance to measure themselves with Tier 1 sides.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 09:15

No, no, I wasn't polemic. If the rumors by Flidta Risxva were confirmed, the feeling would be that of a sort of unfair strategy by FIR and italian clubs (which seem to detain the power levers in this tournament) to clean their way toward the Challenge Cup

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby STMKY » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 11:19

It was an excellent tournament, which everyone liked in Russia. But why do the Italians want to kill him?
This in any case should only accelerate the creation of a new international club league. And she must speak directly with the EPCR about the participation of her clubs in the Challenge Cup.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 10 Aug 2018, 11:35

So annoying if this is the case. Ideally the CS should have been a joint venture between EPCR and RE, that way all owners would have wanted to grow it, whereas since Italy is involved, they want to make sure that their clubs seem to be the best of the T2 leagues.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby JamesWales » Thu, 23 Aug 2018, 14:16

I'm confused. SO what is happening with the Continental Shield in 2018/19?

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 18:50

JamesWales wrote:I'm confused. SO what is happening with the Continental Shield in 2018/19?

Some news or just rumors in these last two weeks from the nations possibly competing in the Shield?

Today italian federation released the schedule of Coppa Italia, which will be played in the same dates of the Shield with the eight teams of Top 12 (the new name of the italian top championship) not playing in Europe. Instead about the Continental Shield we still don't know not only the calendar but even the list of playing teams
The four italian clubs (Petrarca Padova, Calvisano, Rovigo, Fiamme Oro Roma) anyway should be confirmed because they're not part of Coppa Italia

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 19:11

According to an italian facebook page EPCR would have almost decided already one month ago (the news is from early august but I've read it just now) to stop the Continental Shield adventure :( . They gave no details but usually that page writes news taken from the voice of insider people, not just fancy rumors. I asked them in the comments if they may give us some more details

https://www.facebook.com/FratellidiRugb ... =3&theater

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Blurandski » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 19:31

If they wanted to cut costs the best route would have been to give the Russian League one spot, and have 2 Italians, 1 Spa, 1 Ger, 1 Por, 1 Geo, 1 Rom, 1 Ned/Bel compete for the second.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 19:40

Surely the best way to cut costs would be to exclude everyone outside Italy, Germany, Belguim and Holland (+ Switzerland if they have a team at the level) as you can, just about, drive all these distances so your costs are a coach, a driver or two, and at most one night in a hotel.

Its flights where costs start racking up quickly.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Thu, 06 Sep 2018, 20:42

Apparently it was a false alarm by that italian page. They seem to have no solid clues about the possible cancellation of the Shield.

Anyway we are five weeks from the first matches and no one knows which clubs will play

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 19:54

ANY hoot about this DUDE comp from ELSE_where?

Another rumor from ... :
only 6 teams left and will form two pools of three

:::

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Mon, 10 Sep 2018, 20:21

Thanks, every rumor is welcome in total absence of official infos.
I left an answer about the Shield participants on Rovigo's and Fiamme Oro's facebook pages but I doubt they will answer before an official communicate by EPCR.

German and belgian national championships' calendars don't contemplate a pause for the Continental Shield in october and december; this suggests that we have not to expect teams from these two countries, even if it's not a definitive proof

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby cheesus » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 17:38

they totally destroyed the continental shield with the unnecesarry disqualification of heidelberger rk.
spain was already out before, now germany will also have lost their interest for future participation.
and i personally lost my interest in this competition as well.

its mainly an italian league now anyway.

they had a big chance to grow rugby into new markets, but they totally blew that up..

i was hoping it would grow more into a league with all members of the rec included one day. i mean, why are there that many italian teams in the cs anyway?
i dont want to offend the italians, but there should be one or two teams only for every country and more nations involved.
i think the italians have enough opportunities to play rugby on high level. its the smaller (rugby) countries that need more exposure to high(er) level rugby.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 19:02

More INFO - waiting for confirmation

BAD trend: just 6 teams: 4 ITA, 1 GEO, 1 BEL = no GER | POR

GOOD development: WITHIN a pool of 3, each team plays other two twice: H & A

So, pool stage will need 6 weekends: two pairs playing and two teams having byes

:::

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Tue, 11 Sep 2018, 19:45

Thanks Flidta. Disappointing news. Belgian clubs seemed out of their habitat in the past editions of the Shield, so it would become a sort of 5-teams competitions with four italian and one georgian clubs. Not the best show ever.

I was wondering why sports few popular in Italy like handball and field hockey can organize an european cup for clubs (and at least the hockey one is structured on several levels: cup, trophy, conference 1, conference 2) while the supposedly much more popular rugby can't give solidity to this european cup involving all the best teams of the continent except those of GBR, IRE, FRA.

An answer could be the following: the handball euro cup has 4,500 spectators per match while the rugby Shield has just 600/700 spectators per match, I think. But the last hockey euro final, played in Bloemendaal (Ned), had no more than 1000 spectators, judging by a youtube video. So possible questions are
- why handball can gather 4,500 spectators per match while the rugby Shield just 1,000 or less?
- why field hockey can organize a durable european cup with a following similar to that of the frail rugby Continental Shield?

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