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2017-18 Continental Shield

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 10:02

Canalina wrote:I always remain thunderstruck on viewing how handball is popular in most of the rest of Europe while very few popular and usually considered boring here in Italy.
Before throwing accusations toward the rugby boards we should consider also this: maybe handball is more popular than rugby in most of Europe, but in some other european nations (Italy, GB) and I think in the main part of the world it is some like unknown (the best 14 nations of the World Ranking are european and there are just 50 nations in the ranking, according to http://www.ihf.info/en-us/thegame/ranki ... eamCatID=2). If hanbdall managers are so much more brilliant and open wide than the rugby ones why they don't conquer all the markets?
Maybe the supposed closed mind of the rugby high rooms doesn't explain all

Canalina, check the points given to nations in that ranking. I suspect IHF is very restrictive in points allocation and that's why there are only 50 teams there, but it doesn't mean there are only 50 teams playing worldwide. In fact if you switch to 'Overall' ranking you find over 80...

Only in last Men's European Championship there were 38 teams trying to qualify, but only 28 show up in men's international rankings.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 10:38

Rugby is played by 6 million people vs handball 27 millions. It is just easier to play&understand handball.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Gorbeh » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 12:42

Bogdan_DC wrote:Rugby is played by 6 million people vs handball 27 millions. It is just easier to play&understand handball.


I wouldn't necessarily say, that Handball is easier to understand, but it has several advantages in comparison to rugby. For once you don't need so many players (in comparison to union), space (as the field is way smaller) and is often said not as violent (though if you played both, the last statement is not really true). One of the main advantages is, that Handball is easily played in nearly every single gym hall and in especially in schools, whereas rugby needs a football field, preferably grass, which is often used by football teams too. In addition, Handball has long traditions in the most populated Western European nations, as well as inside the previous Eastern bloc. Hence, it is commonly played in the most important traditional sports market whith organic grown structures, whereas Rugby was mostly introduced through british military and/or expats from Rugby playing countries. Even in France Rugby is not that common inside the whole country but a sport of the South. Not without reason the promotion system favours Northern french teams to increase the popularity of the sport in Northern France.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 12:52

I played both sports (and also basketball) and the rules in rugby are way more complicated and in permanent changing. I never heard any of my friends asking me to explain the rules for handball or basketball :).You just watch the sport and get it. And yes you are right about handball being a violent sport. And pretty "dirty" also. When i start playing handball or basketball nobody wears a mouth guard, now is a common thing on some positions in both sports.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby vino_93 » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 13:51

Gorbeh wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:Rugby is played by 6 million people vs handball 27 millions. It is just easier to play&understand handball.


I wouldn't necessarily say, that Handball is easier to understand, but it has several advantages in comparison to rugby. For once you don't need so many players (in comparison to union), space (as the field is way smaller) and is often said not as violent (though if you played both, the last statement is not really true). One of the main advantages is, that Handball is easily played in nearly every single gym hall and in especially in schools, whereas rugby needs a football field, preferably grass, which is often used by football teams too. In addition, Handball has long traditions in the most populated Western European nations, as well as inside the previous Eastern bloc. Hence, it is commonly played in the most important traditional sports market whith organic grown structures, whereas Rugby was mostly introduced through british military and/or expats from Rugby playing countries. Even in France Rugby is not that common inside the whole country but a sport of the South. Not without reason the promotion system favours Northern french teams to increase the popularity of the sport in Northern France.

About promotion, it's not exactly true. FFR do a lot to develop rugby in northern France, but clubs can't get easy promotion. The regional groups in Fédérale doesn't help at all. Northern clubs have 1 pool in Fed 1, 2 in Fed 2, 4 or 5 in Fed 3. But final round see regional fight too - f.e. in Fed 2, pool A face pool B - northern clubs faces eachother.
I'm quasi sure that with a national round, more could have grown quickly. They are in bigger cities, have more money to hire pro (semi-pro) players than Southern clubs from the same level, which come mostly (but not all) from smaller cities, more amateurs.

This system used to help a few years ago, but not nowadays I think. It clearly protects small southern cities not to collapse in minor divisions.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 14:03

Canalina wrote:Maybe the supposed closed mind of the rugby high rooms doesn't explain all


Well handball is seriously stopped by the need to have a sports hall to actually play it. Therefore those 50 federations in the rankings are nearly the same as the 50 richest countries in the world, with the addition to some post-Soviet countries. But yeah an interesting change of one's point of view.

I actually think though that a sport popular in the countries were the most foreign spoken language is from, does have way better chances to grow. I mean myself fell in love with this sport because I had access to read about it and understand what experts are saying about it.
If you watch the 6 Nations highlights many people can understand it. If you watch the highlights of the German Handball Bundesliga, that's only the 289 million German speakers. With English that's 1,5 billion.

Don't know about Italy. That is an interesting exception. Britain is not. They simply don't take sports serious, which were not invented in the Commonwealth or at least in an English speaking country as the sole (?) exception American football shows.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 15:10

Back on the topic (but I've gladly read this handball excursus and of course you may continue), it's interesting what Flidta Risxva alluded to, some posts above: the georgian team in this edition of the Shield will be Lokomitivi Tbilisi?
I would like that!

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 16:14

An italian website, "RugbyBet", says that all the details are now certain. Six teams: the four italian ones, Lokomotivi Tbilisi and "a belgian franchise". Of course also who has written the article is disappointed with these news

http://www.rugby.it/forum/viewtopic.php ... 89#p872289

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby DragonMike » Tue, 18 Sep 2018, 21:51

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:The truth is that handball is much easier to be played in Romania. Much more indoor courts than grass fields over here.
Still a lot of stereotypes about rugby (brute sports, everything is just a big brawl,players are getting injury every single training, etc).Parents are now extremely protective with their children. And yes, the amateur administration of this sport both in Romania and in the World didn't helps either.


While I have to confess, that really every single Romanian rugby player I met, met this actual desciption of being more like a brute, it is amazing that handball doesn't have this stigma. Handball is in my opinion they way more brutal and more dangerous sport. I remember reading a French study, but I can't find it.

This link from all sports at the Rio Olympics shows, that Gymnastics and Tennis actually had more longer lasting injuries (>7 days) than Rugby. Rugby is high up there with short term injuries though.
An Interesting read (page 3)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... woM3Nq4dYW


Have you never played in Rottweil? Playing there 5 or 6 years ago you knew the Romanian students they hired in were going to punch you at least 2 or 3 times in the face in the rucks when you were prone, and there would be at least some fingers near the eyes at some point, even if it was a bit half-hearted. I don't mind a rough game, but it was funny how close they were to the stereotypes. I don't think Handball is anything like that.....

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 06:40

HOPING schedule will be announced TODAY

In meanwhile, Belgian Franchise is officially named "Belgium Rugby Barbarians XV"

Hence, franchises are once again PERMITTED :!:

Still fondly remember our CAUCASIANS of 2014

Image

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Gorbeh » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 07:09

vino_93 wrote:
About promotion, it's not exactly true. FFR do a lot to develop rugby in northern France, but clubs can't get easy promotion. The regional groups in Fédérale doesn't help at all. Northern clubs have 1 pool in Fed 1, 2 in Fed 2, 4 or 5 in Fed 3. But final round see regional fight too - f.e. in Fed 2, pool A face pool B - northern clubs faces eachother.
I'm quasi sure that with a national round, more could have grown quickly. They are in bigger cities, have more money to hire pro (semi-pro) players than Southern clubs from the same level, which come mostly (but not all) from smaller cities, more amateurs.

This system used to help a few years ago, but not nowadays I think. It clearly protects small southern cities not to collapse in minor divisions.


I could be mistaken, but wasn't the competitive promotion system from Fed 1 to D2 changed last season, with only one team promoted on a competitive basis and the second as a Wild card by the LNR, under the condition it is a Northern team at an economic reasonable location and a long term plan? I think it is only for a couple of years, but the LNR wanted more Nothern teams inside the professional leagues.

P.S.: Sorry for leewaying again.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 07:15

DragonMike wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:The truth is that handball is much easier to be played in Romania. Much more indoor courts than grass fields over here.
Still a lot of stereotypes about rugby (brute sports, everything is just a big brawl,players are getting injury every single training, etc).Parents are now extremely protective with their children. And yes, the amateur administration of this sport both in Romania and in the World didn't helps either.


While I have to confess, that really every single Romanian rugby player I met, met this actual desciption of being more like a brute, it is amazing that handball doesn't have this stigma. Handball is in my opinion they way more brutal and more dangerous sport. I remember reading a French study, but I can't find it.

This link from all sports at the Rio Olympics shows, that Gymnastics and Tennis actually had more longer lasting injuries (>7 days) than Rugby. Rugby is high up there with short term injuries though.
An Interesting read (page 3)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... woM3Nq4dYW


Have you never played in Rottweil? Playing there 5 or 6 years ago you knew the Romanian students they hired in were going to punch you at least 2 or 3 times in the face in the rucks when you were prone, and there would be at least some fingers near the eyes at some point, even if it was a bit half-hearted. I don't mind a rough game, but it was funny how close they were to the stereotypes. I don't think Handball is anything like that.....


I played about 12 (7 more serious)years rugby and about 2,5 years handball and some basketball, all in Romania. It's worth saying that my city is having a very good tradition in rugby and handball. So it was a pretty good level at least in this two.
Not so many punches in Romanian Rugby like my father or my godfather experienced back in the day but yes, few general brawls were pretty wild (KOs,broken jaws, fists or eye sockets). I never experienced an eye gouge and i never been in a match with this kind of incident but i've been bitten few times. About injuries, nothing serious, few muscular and joints problems and i broke my nose about 13 times in 1 year and half (my nose didn't find his place on my face before settling his place on the right side). But i was witness of some very serious injuries in rugby.
I wasn't a saint either but in handball i didn't like the fact that it was impossible to play clean. All the strategy in defense is to block your opponent by all meanings.Just block his arm/shoulder or his ankles/knees and your trainer will be happy. All kind of tricks to do that and because of it some nasty injuries. I almost broke my ankle because of some illegal wrestling move in a handball match. I still had a problem with that ankle. At least in rugby if you have the ball you are expecting 29 guys to hit you (including your mates). So i don't know if rugby is a cleaner sport but at least you have fairer expectations.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 07:17

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:HOPING schedule will be announced TODAY

In meanwhile, Belgian Franchise is officially named "Belgium Rugby Barbarians XV"

Hence, franchises are once again PERMITTED :!:

Still fondly remember our CAUCASIANS of 2014

Image


Bucharest Wolves but in Challenge Cup.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 08:51

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:HOPING schedule will be announced TODAY

In meanwhile, Belgian Franchise is officially named "Belgium Rugby Barbarians XV"

Hence, franchises are once again PERMITTED :!:

Still fondly remember our CAUCASIANS of 2014

http://ovaluri.comxa.com/2014/images/09 ... vigo-p.jpg

Has Belgium fixed some autumn test? Maybe they're going to use these Barbarians as a sort of national team, to prepare the REC

PS: yes, one test against Chile according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_end- ... rnationals
but it's on november 10, far from the Continental Shield rounds. So I suppose it is still possible that those Barbarians are studied to be a camouflaged national team

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 09:46

Gorbeh wrote:
vino_93 wrote:
About promotion, it's not exactly true. FFR do a lot to develop rugby in northern France, but clubs can't get easy promotion. The regional groups in Fédérale doesn't help at all. Northern clubs have 1 pool in Fed 1, 2 in Fed 2, 4 or 5 in Fed 3. But final round see regional fight too - f.e. in Fed 2, pool A face pool B - northern clubs faces eachother.
I'm quasi sure that with a national round, more could have grown quickly. They are in bigger cities, have more money to hire pro (semi-pro) players than Southern clubs from the same level, which come mostly (but not all) from smaller cities, more amateurs.

This system used to help a few years ago, but not nowadays I think. It clearly protects small southern cities not to collapse in minor divisions.


I could be mistaken, but wasn't the competitive promotion system from Fed 1 to D2 changed last season, with only one team promoted on a competitive basis and the second as a Wild card by the LNR, under the condition it is a Northern team at an economic reasonable location and a long term plan? I think it is only for a couple of years, but the LNR wanted more Nothern teams inside the professional leagues.

P.S.: Sorry for leewaying again.


No, that doesn't happen. But you were right, they wanted to do it. In fact they tell this every 2 years :lol:
The 2 clubs which will join the Fed 1 finale will be promoted if they can reach professionnalism. Otherwise semi finalists will be asking if they want to jump.

I guess one club from North could move to Pro D2 (mostly Rouen, maybe Nantes).

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Raven » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 13:21

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:In meanwhile, Belgian Franchise is officially named "Belgium Rugby Barbarians XV"

Hence, franchises are once again PERMITTED :!:

Still fondly remember our CAUCASIANS of 2014


I don´t think it´s a bad idea to allow franchise teams. Would definitely help the competition.

In a way, HRK was a franchise team last season and they did well.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 13:42

Announcement NOT today, folks -- on THU 10am UK time for SURE

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 20:14

Carefully read through INTRO:

Pool 1 Winner vs Pool 2 Winner H&A
is called CONTINENTAL SHIELD FINAL

:::

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 20:32

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Carefully read through INTRO:

Pool 1 Winner vs Pool 2 Winner H&A
is called CONTINENTAL SHIELD FINAL

:::

Just remembered that, continental shield pool stage has most terrible system in the world.

Common Rugby Europe, show some signs of life. Dead organisation is managing European Rugby ladies and gentleman...

I guess they will accidentally announce the wrong winner of the final. It happened on REC final between the match of two strongest Nations, Georgia and Romania.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby victorsra » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 20:42

Has Belgium fixed some autumn test? Maybe they're going to use these Barbarians as a sort of national team, to prepare the REC


There are talks about Belgium playing Chile and Brazil in South America in november.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 19 Sep 2018, 21:33

This coming season Shield pools are NORMAL:
Team plays every other team in its Pool, Home and Away

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 20 Sep 2018, 09:18

DONE in time, as promised @ 10:00 am (GMT)

** ERROR ** should be 09:00 GMT = 10:00 BST

https://www.epcrugby.com/2018/09/20/201 ... confirmed/

++ Lokomotivi Tbilisi was founded in 1964, NOT 1961 =

1961 is year of formation of Tbilisi Rugby Section =
predecessor of Georgia Rugby Union

:::

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 20 Sep 2018, 10:46

Sorry, I get it was a desperate move but I can only be upset at Belgian franchise being allowed after years telling everybody else that this was a club a competition.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 20 Sep 2018, 12:16

Glad to see proper Georgian champion participate. Some intriguing games for them.

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Re: 2017-18 Continental Shield

Postby Canalina » Fri, 21 Sep 2018, 04:48

Strangely still no mentions of the Belgium Barbarians on the main belgian rugby sites (Federation's and www.sportkipik.be)

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