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Frustrated with Rugby cartel

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Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby jservuk » Sat, 15 Jul 2017, 10:27

In a week when we have seen small bug significant events in the sometimes beastly sport of football and its push for total global domination, RU is taking steps backwards with the SA clubs joining Pro12 - a money grab in the heartlands, rather than a missionary spreading of the word to new pastures.

This weeks events that grabbed my attention were firstly 2 exhibitions matches played in Pakistan featuring recent stars of football (Ronaldinho, Giggsy to name just 2). The aim was clear - to promote the interest in football. This was a bold and brave move - global stars (probably well paid I admit) taking a risk in a country where there has been no international sport for a while.

The second event - we're all familiar with the big clubs travelling the world to push their brand in big markets. Everton fetched up in East Africa, and played to 35,000 in Tanzania.
What do we get in Rugby? The Lions going to the same places every two years, with the British Rugby loving media pack eulogising the spirit of the Lions (isn't it odd how prevalent the Lion is as a symbol of Britishness yet lions are not an indigenous species of the UK Isles). The Lions serves only the established Rugby Cartel, the old empire game.

Can't we, as supporters, lobby our clubs to go out and spread the word? Why not push the Lions to every years and replace the lost year with exhibition tours

If Everton can go the East Africa, why can't Saracens and Toulon go to Germany, or Russia and play a couple of exhibition matches as part of their pre-season? Why we get an all-stars team of recently retired players to go on a world tour promoting this game?

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 13:11

That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 13:22

RugbyLiebe wrote:That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.

Sorry but you played Romania in 1963(my father make his debut in that game so i know exactly). And we were in top 10 in those days. I don't know what you need more?! :))

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby olivier » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 14:53

RugbyLiebe wrote:That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.

You barely understand everything. Rugby is a niche sport only because of his administration. Only a boycott of Rugby World Cup would change something.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 14:59

Bogdan_DC wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.

Sorry but you played Romania in 1963(my father make his debut in that game so i know exactly). And we were in top 10 in those days. I don't know what you need more?! :))


Sorry a nation which has already beaten a top10 nation. And that more than once :D

olivier wrote:You barely understand everything. Rugby is a niche sport only because of his administration. Only a boycott of Rugby World Cup would change something.


I am quite aware about this. Actually my theory why rugby never caught on in Germany is our scorn of snobs. We just ignore them. Still the best sport in the world.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 17 Jul 2017, 15:19

Yes we let you to win one time each era: one in communist brotherhood and one for capitalism brotherhood.Wait for next one in nomoremoneyhippieera. And if you ask a Berliner he will say you have few snobs in Bavaria :)) (off course persons in this discussion are excluded).

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Neptune » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 04:13

RugbyLiebe wrote:That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.


I totally agree, it boils down to the administrators of the game. The main people there would just want the status quo to be maintaned and no change at all.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 07:28

Bogdan_DC wrote:Sorry but you played Romania in 1963
(my father make his debut in that game so i know exactly)


:!: http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/ru ... ew=results

Gheorghie Celea :?:

ARE http://stats.espnscrum.com/ CORRECT :?:

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 07:39

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:Sorry but you played Romania in 1963
(my father make his debut in that game so i know exactly)


:!: http://stats.espnscrum.com/statsguru/ru ... ew=results

Gheorghie Celea :?:

ARE http://stats.espnscrum.com/ CORRECT :?:


Yes but his name was Gheorghe (not Gheorghie) Celea and he got 4 caps but probably because the rest wasn't in FIRA are not in there. He got few more for U21 or U23 team.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 07:49

Neptune wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:That's really something I've wondered about for years.
If the 22nd ranked national team in the world, who has played the game for over 160 years, who has clubs over 145 years old, who is one of the world's biggest economies, who borders one major nation and is a two-hour-flight away from every other continental rugby power, has just played one single top10 team (France) in all of that time, something is terribly wrong with our beloved sport.


I totally agree, it boils down to the administrators of the game. The main people there would just want the status quo to be maintaned and no change at all.



I actually think a lot of them secretly harbour a desire to see the game go backwards to amateurism when they had more power. You look at the positions of power that that old duffer John Spencer has got himself into, even after presiding over the ridiculous ban of Alesana Tuilagi in the 2015 World Cup, and just want to weep. :thumbdown:

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 12:56

Bogdan_DC wrote:Yes we let you to win one time each era: one in communist brotherhood and one for capitalism brotherhood.Wait for next one in nomoremoneyhippieera. And if you ask a Berliner he will say you have few snobs in Bavaria :)) (off course persons in this discussion are excluded).


Don't listen to those Prussians. There never came anything good out of Prussia. And you know from our Bavarian view everything apart from Baden-Württemberg is Prussia :D
No way we've ever been arrogant to those poor and lazy Berliners who are not even able to work or even clean their own streets. Good luck to them avoiding the dog shit on the streets :D

But it was never easy to be Bavrian. I mean those damn canyon shitters (Austrians) are fake Bavarians. They even speak middle or south Bavarian from a linguistic point of view, but are not proud enough to give in that they should be Bavarian. As you can see under this circumstances we Bavrians are surrounded by enemy territory.

Btt. and joking aside: Read a very interesting article about the Brexit today in german news magazine "Der Spiegel", were they are wondering that the Brits honestly think they might get a special treatment after the Brexit just because they once were an Empire.
I think this has a lot to do with that.
And lets face it. ALL the former nations of the Empire do actually get a more favourable treatment in rugby than the others. So there might be something true in this theory.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bogdan_DC » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 13:07

Sorry but i visit only Munchen (and i like it) so i don't know if the Berliners are right or not.:)
I take even further your theory: all the nations with a monarchy house have specials relations even if their monarchies are not ruling anymore.Maybe because of that they are hating Russians&French because they killed their relatives :)).

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby The Captain's Run » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 16:17

jservuk wrote:If Everton can go the East Africa, why can't Saracens and Toulon go to Germany, or Russia and play a couple of exhibition matches as part of their pre-season?


In the case of Saracens, because they'll be in Bermuda doing the sort of thing you're complaining about rugby teams not doing.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 18 Jul 2017, 22:54

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:Yes we let you to win one time each era: one in communist brotherhood and one for capitalism brotherhood.Wait for next one in nomoremoneyhippieera. And if you ask a Berliner he will say you have few snobs in Bavaria :)) (off course persons in this discussion are excluded).


Don't listen to those Prussians. There never came anything good out of Prussia. And you know from our Bavarian view everything apart from Baden-Württemberg is Prussia :D
No way we've ever been arrogant to those poor and lazy Berliners who are not even able to work or even clean their own streets. Good luck to them avoiding the dog shit on the streets :D

But it was never easy to be Bavrian. I mean those damn canyon shitters (Austrians) are fake Bavarians. They even speak middle or south Bavarian from a linguistic point of view, but are not proud enough to give in that they should be Bavarian. As you can see under this circumstances we Bavrians are surrounded by enemy territory.

Btt. and joking aside: Read a very interesting article about the Brexit today in german news magazine "Der Spiegel", were they are wondering that the Brits honestly think they might get a special treatment after the Brexit just because they once were an Empire.
I think this has a lot to do with that.
And lets face it. ALL the former nations of the Empire do actually get a more favourable treatment in rugby than the others. So there might be something true in this theory.



I read a book called "the shortest history of germany" which was bascally a polemic on why Prussia was not really Germany. Good book.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 19 Jul 2017, 05:15

The Captain's Run wrote:
jservuk wrote:If Everton can go the East Africa, why can't Saracens and Toulon go to Germany, or Russia and play a couple of exhibition matches as part of their pre-season?


In the case of Saracens, because they'll be in Bermuda doing the sort of thing you're complaining about rugby teams not doing.


Bermudas. Think that through. Can't wait to see those Million Bermudians (?) pick up our beloved game. Great from the Saracens to really push rugby into new markets.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 08:53

THAT Cartel Mentality is EVIDENT eveywhere:

PRESS RELEASE >> http://www.worldrugby.org/news/266973

Law Review Group members:

Alain Rolland; Rhys Jones; Mark Harrington (all World Rugby);
Nigel Melville (RFU); Ben Whitaker (ARU); David Nucifora (IRFU);
Didier Retiere (FFR); Dave Rennie (NZR), Francesco Ascione (FIR);
Rachael Burford (IRPA); Chris Paterson (SRU); Pablo Bouza (UAR);
Paul Adams (WRU); Chean Roux (SARU).

Previous inputs within the process include:

Paul O'Connell (IRPA); Eddie Jones (RFU);
Nigel Whitehouse (WRU) and Dr Martin Raftery (World Rugby).

14+4 = 18 persons and NOBODY from T2 or beneath

THEY still think that ONLY they OWN the GAME
and could have a say in framing its LAWS

@

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 09:13

Perhaps you missed the Italian, mate :).

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 14:10

No way

By all accounts -- search WWW -- ITALY belong to Tier 1

Once this scheme was introduced some 12 years ago,
they have been THERE -- alongside BIG GUNS

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby germanbullsfan » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 14:57

Saracens trip to Bermuda is a camouflaged holiday trip , promoting the game just an cheap excuse !

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 21:47

germanbullsfan wrote:Saracens trip to Bermuda is a camouflaged holiday trip , promoting the game just an cheap excuse !


Cool, but for us. That USA Islanders match is a proof of concept to build something from the ground up and display US Islander talent. So what if it's a holiday trip, it's a legit thing.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby dropkick » Fri, 21 Jul 2017, 21:49

jservuk wrote:In a week when we have seen small bug significant events in the sometimes beastly sport of football and its push for total global domination, RU is taking steps backwards with the SA clubs joining Pro12 - a money grab in the heartlands, rather than a missionary spreading of the word to new pastures.

This weeks events that grabbed my attention were firstly 2 exhibitions matches played in Pakistan featuring recent stars of football (Ronaldinho, Giggsy to name just 2). The aim was clear - to promote the interest in football. This was a bold and brave move - global stars (probably well paid I admit) taking a risk in a country where there has been no international sport for a while.

The second event - we're all familiar with the big clubs travelling the world to push their brand in big markets. Everton fetched up in East Africa, and played to 35,000 in Tanzania.
What do we get in Rugby? The Lions going to the same places every two years, with the British Rugby loving media pack eulogising the spirit of the Lions (isn't it odd how prevalent the Lion is as a symbol of Britishness yet lions are not an indigenous species of the UK Isles). The Lions serves only the established Rugby Cartel, the old empire game.

Can't we, as supporters, lobby our clubs to go out and spread the word? Why not push the Lions to every years and replace the lost year with exhibition tours

If Everton can go the East Africa, why can't Saracens and Toulon go to Germany, or Russia and play a couple of exhibition matches as part of their pre-season? Why we get an all-stars team of recently retired players to go on a world tour promoting this game?



You can't compare rugby to soccer. Rugby is a growing sport while soccer is the biggest sport on the planet and is awash with cash. The top14 is the wealthiest non international rugby competition in the world. I think their TV money is €94m. Sunderland received €93.5m for finishing in 20th place - bottom - of the English premier league!


The old cartel as you call it is battling ever increasing costs. Why shouldn't they look after themselves first?


And you think these soccer clubs are visiting asia to make the little children happy? Yeah right. Its for business reasons.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby olivier » Sat, 22 Jul 2017, 09:55

dropkick wrote:
The old cartel as you call it is battling ever increasing costs. Why shouldn't they look after themselves first?

Because globalization IS the best way to increase revenus...

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby NedRugby » Sat, 22 Jul 2017, 21:09

TheStroBro wrote:That USA Islanders match is a proof of concept to build something from the ground up and display US Islander talent. So what if it's a holiday trip, it's a legit thing.


I don't understand what you mean by US Islanders.

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 22 Jul 2017, 21:14

It's a new team made of American players of Pacific Islands ancestry

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Re: Frustrated with Rugby cartel

Postby Bolaroid » Sun, 23 Jul 2017, 01:36

RugbyLiebe wrote:Btt. and joking aside: Read a very interesting article about the Brexit today in german news magazine "Der Spiegel", were they are wondering that the Brits honestly think they might get a special treatment after the Brexit just because they once were an Empire.
I think this has a lot to do with that.

And lets face it. ALL the former nations of the Empire do actually get a more favourable treatment in rugby than the others. So there might be something true in this theory.

Special treatment from whom? To be honest, from the number of articles I have gleaned from the German press on Brexit, I'm not sure there's anything vaguely objective worth reading.

In terms of Rugby, Canada are a former nation of the Empire, do you think they get more favourable treatment than say Georgia?

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