Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

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T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 12:43

Pro14
No T2/3 players at Dragons, Munster, Scarlets, Kings, Ulster, .

Canada:
Jeff Hassler (Ospreys)

Fiji:
Michael Tagicakibau (Treviso)
Naulia Dawai (Connacht)
Viliame Mata (Edinburgh)
Isa Nacewa (Leinster)

Georgia:
Anton Peikrishvili (Blues)

Moldova:
Dimitri Arhip (Ospreys)

Namibia:
Torsten van Jaarsveld (Cheetahs)
Aranos Coetzee (Cheetahs)
Anton Bresler (Edinburgh)

Samoa:
Rey Lee-lo (Blues)
Kieron Fonotia (Ospreys)
Failaga Afamasaga (Zebre)

Tonga:
Tau Filise (Blues)
Siua Halanukonuka (Glasgow)
Ma'afu Fia (Ospreys)

U.S.:
Blaine Scully (Blues)
Greg Peterson (Glasgow)

Total: 18

Average per side:
Welsh sides: 2
Scottish sides: 2
Italian sides: 1
South African sides: 1
Irish sides: 0.5

Ospreys and Blues are tied for the most T2/3 players with 4 each.

Anyone care to do the English or French systems?

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 13:54

Not that much players for a 14-team-pro league...

But this thread is a really great idea

Top14
So Brive has nearly as many t2&3 players as the Pro14 combined :shock:

Bordeaux 5: Vadim Cobîlaș (Moldavia), Peni Ravai, Api Naqalevu, Metuisela Talebula (all Fiji), Ole Avei (Samoa)

Brive 15: Mike Tadjer, Samuel Marques (all Portugal), Karlen Asieshvili, Soso Bekoshvili, Vasil Lobzhanidze (all Georgia), James Johnston, Na'ama Leleimalefaga (all Samoa), Sila Puafisi, Alfie Mafi (all Tonga), Saïd Hireche (Algeria), Sisa Koyamaibole, Peniami Narisia, Dominiko Waqaniburotu, Seremaia Burotu, Benito Masilevu (all Fiji)

Castres 6: Mihaita Lazar (Romania), Damien Tussac (Germany), Rodrigo Capó Ortega (Uruguay), Steve Mafi, Ma'ama Vaipulu (all Tonga), Taylor Paris (Canada)

Clermont 7: Loni Uhila (Tonga), Davit Zirakashvili, Otar Giorgadze, Viktor Kolelishvili (all Georgia), Fritz Lee (Samoa), Peceli Yato, Alivereti Raka (all Fiji)

Montpellier 9: Davit Kubriashvili, Mikheil Nariashvili, Ushangi Tcheishvili, Konstantin Mikautadze, Gela Aprasidze, Giorgi Gogoladze (all Georgia), Julien Bardy (Portugal), Nemani Nadolo, Timoci Nagusa (all Fiji)

Oyonnax 10: Irakli Mirtskhulava, Giorgi Vepkhvadze (all Georgia), Christian Njewel (Cameroon), Maurie Fa'asavalu (Samoa), Valentin Ursache (Romania), Bilel Taieb (Tunisia), Viliami Ma'afu (Tonga), Christopher Ruiz (Spain), José Lima (Portugal), Silvère Tian (Ivory Coast)

Lyon 3: Taiasina Tuifu'a (Samoa), Hemani Paea (Tonga), Timilai Rokoduru (Fiji)

Racing 5: Viliamu Afatia, Census Johnston (all Samoa), Vasil Kakovin (Georgia) Ben Tameifuna (Tonga), Leone Nakarawa (Fiji)

Pau 6: Malik Hamadache (Algeria), Matt Tierney (Canada), Masalosalo Tutaia (Samoa), Jale Vatubua, Watisoni Votu (all Fiji), Charly Malié (Spain)

Agen 5: Djalil Narjissi (Morocco), Vakhtangi Akhobadze, Giorgi Tetrashvili, Tamaz Mchedlidze (all Georgia), Vilikisa Salawa (Fiji)

La Rochelle 4: Jone Qovu, Levani Botia, Kini Murimurivalu (all Fiji), Zeno Kieft (Netherlands),

Toulon 6: Badri Alkhazashvili, Levan Chilachava, Mamuka Gorgodze (all Georgia), Samu Manoa (USA), Semi Radradra, Josua Tuisova (all Fiji)

Toulouse 4: Iosefa Tekori, Piula Faasalele, Paul Pérez (all Samoa), Semi Kunatani (Fiji)

Stade Français 9: Sakaria Taulafo, Paul Alo-Emile, Paul Williams (all Samoa), Zurab Zhvania, Giorgi Melikidze (Georgia), Jean Baptiste De Clercq (Belgium), Bakary Meité (Ivory Coast), Waisea Nayacalevu, Josaia Raisuqe (all Fiji)


Would be great if somebody could add them up.

Source: wikipedia-club-pages accessible over:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championn ... 3.89quipes
(click on the respective club name).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby suofficer » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 14:21

this is really good. i will see if i can do a portugal one.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 14:40

RugbyLiebe wrote:Not that much players for a 14-team-pro league...


Yep, as any number of people here will tell you, the union-run model does not promote the recruitment of Tier 2/3 players as the teams are encouraged to develop home-grown players instead.

That said, most of the T2s in the Welsh sides (at least) are first team players. The first 23 of both Blues and Ospreys would probably include all 8 T2 players if fit.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 15:07

Pro D2:
Bayonne 8: Toma'Akino Taufa (Tonga), Manu Leiataua (Samoa), Evrard Dion Oulai (Ivory Coast), Pablo Huete (Chile), Pieter-Jan van Lill (Namibia), Guillaume Rouet (Spain), Savenaca Rawaca (Fiji), Maile Mamao (Tonga)

Angoulême 8: Leo Halavatau (Tonga), Pingi Tala'apitanga, Rome Nifo Taelega (all Samoa), Martin Wognitsch (Czech Republic), Shalva Sutiashvili (Georgia), Adrien Ayestaran, Brice Labadie (all Spain), Ledua Mau (Fiji)

Aurillac 8: Giorgi Sharashidze, Nikoloz Khatiashvili, Levan Datunashvili, Merab Sharikadze (all Georgia), Christian Ostberg (USA), Utu Maninoa, Robert Lilomaiava (all Samoa), Sergi Aubanell (Spain)

Béziers 9: Marco Pinto Ferrer (Spain), Steve Fualau (Samoa), Francisco Fernandes (Portugal), Lua Lokotui (Tonga), Yassine Maamry (Morocco), Lasha Lomidze (Georgia), Tyrone Viiga (Cook Islands), Apimeleki Nawaqabatu (Fiji), Sabri Gmir (Tunisia).

Biarritz 6: Nephi Leatigaga (Samoa), Sikeli Nabou, Nemia Soqeta, Adriu Delai, Joe Vakacegu, Uwa Tawalo (all Fiji),

Carcassonne 10: Giorgi Natsarashvili (Georgia), Andrei Ursache, Alin Coste (Romania), Josefa Domolailai, Fred Hickes, Aisea Natoga (all Fiji), Sanele Vavae Tuilagi (Samoa), Fabien Grammatico (Spain), Pedro Bettencourt Avila (Portugal), Daniel Kilioni (Tonga)

Colomiers 11: Otar Turashvili, Marius Antonescu, Mihai Macovei (all Romania), Beka Sheklashvili (Georgia), Jonny Fa'amatuainu (Samoa), Sione Timani, Daniel Faleafa (all Tonga), Aurélien Béco (Portugal), Guillaume Piron (Belgium), Randall Kamea, Venione Voretamaya (all Fiji)

Dax 8: Paea Fa'anunu, Joseph Tu'ineau (all Tonga), Elizbar Kuparadze (Georgia), Aisea Koliavu, Sakiusa Bureitakiyaca, Esava Delai (all Fiji), Brian Tuilagi (Samoa), Felipe Berchesi (Uruguay)

Grenoble 9: Beka Gigashvili (Georgia), Sona Taumalolo, Edgar Tuinukuafe, Daniel Kilioni, Alaska Taufa (all Tonga), Beñat Auzqui (Spain), Nuku Swerling (Samoa), Steven Setephano (Cook Islands), Edward Sawailau (Fiji)

Mont-de-Marsan 8: Paul Ngauamo, Haisini Taulanga (all Tonga), Agustín Ormaechea (Uruguay), Saimoni Nabaro, Savenaca Tokula, Vilikisa Salawa, Ropate Ratu, Nacani Wakaya (all Fiji)

Montauban 5: Serge Sergueev (Russia), Jean Sousa (Portugal), Waisale Sukanaveita (Fiji), Sébastien Ascarat (Spain), Vungakoto Lilo (Tonga)

Narbonne 12: Tapu Falatea (Wallis and Futuna), Tariel Ratianidze (Georgia), Pingi Tala'apitaga (Samoa), David Penalva (Portugal), Lucas Guillaume, Sébastien Rouet (all Spain), Yassine Jarmouni (Morocco), Kelly Meafua (Samoa), David Tameilau (USA), Leone Ravuetaki, Sakiusa Navakadretia (all Fiji), Saia Fekitoa (Tonga)

Perpignan 7: Tevita Mailau, Sione Tau, Sione Piukala (all Tonga), Genesis Mamea Lemalu (Samoa), Adrea Cocagi, Alipate Ratini (all Fiji), Jens Torfs (Belgium)

Vannes: Sunia Vola, Laijaisa Bolenaivalu, Aloisio Butonidualevu (all Fiji), Archil Beziashvili, Vakhtang Maisuradze (all Georgia), Maxime Jadot (Belgium), David Barrea-Howarth (Spain), Otilo Kafotomaki (Samoa), Chris Hilsenbeck (Germany)

Massy: not updated on wikipedia

Nevers: Jonathan Garcia, Gautier Gibouin, Mathieu Belie (all Spain), Mehdi Merabet (Algeria), Ousmane N'Diaye (Senegal), Senio Toleafoa (Samoa), Tevita Paea, Nasoni Naqiri (all Fiji), Conor Trainor (Canada), Fa'atoina Autagavaia (Samoa).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 16 Aug 2017, 15:15

Figaro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:Not that much players for a 14-team-pro league...


Yep, as any number of people here will tell you, the union-run model does not promote the recruitment of Tier 2/3 players as the teams are encouraged to develop home-grown players instead.

That said, most of the T2s in the Welsh sides (at least) are first team players. The first 23 of both Blues and Ospreys would probably include all 8 T2 players if fit.


Not a big surprise, while scrolling through the Top14 and ProD2 sides I realized a trend, that better clubs tend to have more t1 players (which off course decreases average t2 numbers in those clubs). It is understandable that the Pro14 has less than the French clubs.

Still, lets face it: 1,28 t2&3 players per team in a pro league is a catastrophy for the growth of rugby world-wide.

And just TWO players from continental European t2&3 nations in a European league is simply unbelievable bad. I can't think of any other pro sport where this would be the case in one of the best leagues from a continent. This shows simply an absolute lack of scouting for hidden gems.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 08:05

RugbyLiebe wrote:Not a big surprise, while scrolling through the Top14 and ProD2 sides I realized a trend, that better clubs tend to have more t1 players (which off course decreases average t2 numbers in those clubs).


Not necessarily the case in the Pro12. Two of the four playoff teams (Scarlets and Munster) had no T2 at all and another playoff team had only 1 (Leinster), but the fourth team (Ospreys) had 4. At the other end of the league, the Italian teams and the dragons have only two between the three teams.

To be fair, the situation does change. The Pro12 lost 12 T2/3 players over the summer - more than half of what they had (if you discount the two Namibians at the Cheetahs (who weren't Pro12 at the time), and only one new T2 player joined. Lots of them were good players too (e.g. DTH Van der Merwe and Tyler Ardron both left Wales). The Blues and Ospreys had 6 each at the end of last season.

The lack of European players is a bit surprising.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 09:00

Figaro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:Not a big surprise, while scrolling through the Top14 and ProD2 sides I realized a trend, that better clubs tend to have more t1 players (which off course decreases average t2 numbers in those clubs).


Not necessarily the case in the Pro12. Two of the four playoff teams (Scarlets and Munster) had no T2 at all and another playoff team had only 1 (Leinster), but the fourth team (Ospreys) had 4. At the other end of the league, the Italian teams and the dragons have only two between the three teams.

To be fair, the situation does change. The Pro12 lost 12 T2/3 players over the summer - more than half of what they had (if you discount the two Namibians at the Cheetahs (who weren't Pro12 at the time), and only one new T2 player joined. Lots of them were good players too (e.g. DTH Van der Merwe and Tyler Ardron both left Wales). The Blues and Ospreys had 6 each at the end of last season.

The lack of European players is a bit surprising.


Fair enough, wasn't aware of that t2 drain. But I think you overread "T1" in my post (as of "better teams have more T1-players"). Leinster i.e. had three foreign T1 players which probably lead to them having just 1 tier2 player (Isa Nacewa/ Fiji). Some with Munster this season. They have 4 South Africans and 2 Kiwis in their squad, but no T2 player. So teams with a lot of foreign t1 players seem to have way less t2 players in their squads.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 09:21

RugbyLiebe wrote:Pro D2:
Mont-de-Marsan 8: Paul Ngauamo, Haisini Taulanga (all Tonga), Agustín Ormaechea (Uruguay), Saimoni Nabaro, Savenaca Tokula, Vilikisa Salawa, Ropate Ratu, Nacani Wakaya (all Fiji)


Missing Beka Gorgadze who is playing in starting XV.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 09:21

Yes there are dozens of South Africans and New Zealanders in all the pro leagues. They are probably more atracted to the Pro12 and English prem, relative to the French leagues, because of the shared language and commonwealth status making it easier to move - that relative advantage doesn't exist for e.g. Georgians.

Another thing worth noting is designations of individuals can change. E.g. when Kieron Fonotia signed for the Ospreys he was referred to as a New Zealander. He qualifies for Samoa via a grandparent, and got his first caps over the summer - he was actually capped for Samoa (vs. New Zealand) without having ever visited Samoa (he visited for the first time the week later to play against, ironically, Wales) - meaning he effectively changed from T1 to T2. Similarly, there might be many players eligible for T2/3 sides (via parentage in particular) showing up on those Wikipedia pages as affiliated to their main T1 nations. Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues) would have been eligible for Iran, for example, before he was capped by Wales.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 12:53

Prem.

Leicester (6):
Chris Baumann (USA), Logo Mulipola (Samoa), Valentino Mapapalangi, Sione Kalamafone, Telusa Veainu (all Tonga), Mike Williams (Zimbabwe)

Bath (1):
Kahn Fotuali'i (Samoa)

Exeter (1):
Elvis Taoine (Tonga)

Gloucester (3):
Motu Matu'u (Samoa), Val Rapava Ruskin (Georgia), David Halaifonua (Tonga)

Harlequins (4)*:
Elia Elia, Winston Stanley, Alofa Alofa (Samoa), Renaldo Bothma (Namibia) *+ Tim Visser (Dutch/Scots) & Jonas Mickalcius (Lithuainia) who may or may not be linked to the academy depending on which club press release you read.

London Irish (7):
Manasa Saulo, Asaeli Tikoirotuma, Napolioni Nalaga (all Fiji), Filo Paulo, Ofisa Trevoranus (Samoa), Lasha Lomidze (Georgia), Cieran Hearn (Canada)

Newcastle (12):
Tevita Cavubati, Josh Matavesi, Joel Matavesi, Vereniki Goneva (all Fiji), Nick Civetta (USA), Nili Latu, Opeti Fonua, Sonatane Takulua (all Tonga), Evan Olmstead, DTH van der Merwe (both Canada), Sinoti Sinoti (Samoa), Joshua Chisanga (Kenya)

Northampton (5):
Campese Ma'afu, Api Ratuniyarawa (both Fiji), Nafi Tuitavake (Tonga), Ken Pisi, Ahsee Tuala (both Samoa)

Sale (7):
Halani Aulika (Tonga), Alexandru Tarus (Romania), Andrei Ostrikov (Russia), TJ Ioane, Johnny Leota (both Samoa), AJ MacGinty (USA), Diogo Ferriera (Portugal)

Saracens (2):
Titi Lamositele, Chris Wyles (both USA)

Wasps (1):
Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Fiji)

Worcester (3):
Joe Taufete'e (USA), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Samoa), Marco Mama (Zimbabwe)

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 13:25

You definitely shouldn't count Tim Visser - if you include players capped for T1 nations that *could* have played for T2 or 3 then all the leagues should have dozens.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 15:02

Well he isn't in the count, and is clearly a special case as he is actually Dutch rather than theoretically qualified to play for the Netherlands.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 18:06

Uruguayan rugby players in Europe:

Rodrigo Capó Ortega: Castres (Top 14)
Felipe Berchesi: Dax (Pro D2)
Agustín Ormaechea Strasbourg (Fédérale 1)
Franco Lamanna: Mazamétain (Fédérale 2)
Manuel Leindekar: Oyonnax (espoirs)

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Lobo » Thu, 17 Aug 2017, 19:34

Aurillac - Anthony Alves (Portugal)

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 06:59

sk 88 wrote:Well he isn't in the count, and is clearly a special case as he is actually Dutch rather than theoretically qualified to play for the Netherlands.


Don't overcomplicate things with former eligibilities. He is simply Scottish in rugby terms. And this is about rugby. End of story.
With players who haven't played for a national side, it should be simply there passport.
Again my own case. I'm eligible to play for Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Should all those nations stand behind my name? I would say no. Nation you were born in.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Figaro » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 07:32

RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Well he isn't in the count, and is clearly a special case as he is actually Dutch rather than theoretically qualified to play for the Netherlands.


Don't overcomplicate things with former eligibilities. He is simply Scottish in rugby terms. And this is about rugby. End of story.
With players who haven't played for a national side, it should be simply there passport.
Again my own case. I'm eligible to play for Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. Should all those nations stand behind my name? I would say no. Nation you were born in.


Exactly; he might be Dutch, but he is not nor will he ever be a "Tier 2/3 Rugby player".

Interesting that the English system is not really much better than the Pro12 for T2 European players - I count 5 in the whole league. I wonder what explains this?

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 11:42

Snobbery and a lack of imagination.

They think all continental Europeans are shit at rugby and literally can't imagine that there are enough worthwhile players there to try and find them. Despite historically decent players coming from all over like Ripol, Visser, Kacla, Cobilas etc. Steve Diamond is basically the only person in England interested in looking at Europe.

Tigers do host a camp in Belgium and have done for a number of years, I think its currently at Dendermonde and was previously at the Brussels international school, but no one has ever even made the academy from this route.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 15:45

The Namibian Bresler who plays for Edinburgh has just done a Tim Visser and become Scottish under residency. He has been called up into the forthcoming Scottish training squad. So that is one less player depending on how you want to count things.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Raven » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 15:53

NaBUru38 wrote:Uruguayan rugby players in Europe:

Rodrigo Capó Ortega: Castres (Top 14)
Felipe Berchesi: Dax (Pro D2)
Agustín Ormaechea Strasbourg (Fédérale 1)
Franco Lamanna: Mazamétain (Fédérale 2)
Manuel Leindekar: Oyonnax (espoirs)


I was convinced Gaston Mieres was still playing in England, but after checking I see he returned to Uruguay... shame that only 5 players (6 if we count Nicolas Freitas in Jaguares, who didn´t play in the season) play abroad, makes it difficult for teams like Los Teros to grow.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Lobo » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 16:26

The national side that gives nightmares to Cassiano Neves and his puppeteer.

Portugal (only with players that have already played for Portugal, plus one player * that, for sure, want and can play for us):

1. Francisco Fernandes (Pro2)
2. Tadjer Barbosa (Top14)
3. Anthony Alves (Pro2)
4. Jean de Sousa (Pro2) *
5. Not sure
6. Aurélien Béco (Pro2)
7. Julien Bardy (Top14)
8. Vasco F. Mendes (Direito)
9. Samuel Marques (Top14)
10. Nuno S. Guedes (Direito)
11. Tomás Appleton (CDUL)
12. Pedro B. Avila (Pro2)
13. Jose Lima (Top14)
14. José Vareta (Direito)
15. Nuno P. Costa (CDUL)

16. Joel H. Ferreira (Aviva Premiership)
17. Not sure
18. Tony Martins (Fédérale Elite)
19. David Penalva (Pro2)
20. Sebastiao Villax (CDUL)
21. Francisco P. Magalhães (CDUL)
22. Not sure
23. Adérito Esteves (Fédérale Elite)

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 16:35

Raven wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:Uruguayan rugby players in Europe:

Rodrigo Capó Ortega: Castres (Top 14)
Felipe Berchesi: Dax (Pro D2)
Agustín Ormaechea Strasbourg (Fédérale 1)
Franco Lamanna: Mazamétain (Fédérale 2)
Manuel Leindekar: Oyonnax (espoirs)


I was convinced Gaston Mieres was still playing in England, but after checking I see he returned to Uruguay... shame that only 5 players (6 if we count Nicolas Freitas in Jaguares, who didn´t play in the season) play abroad, makes it difficult for teams like Los Teros to grow.

But at the same time it's their strength compared to other Tier 2/3.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 21:36

sk 88 wrote:Snobbery and a lack of imagination.

They think all continental Europeans are shit at rugby and literally can't imagine that there are enough worthwhile players there to try and find them. Despite historically decent players coming from all over like Ripol, Visser, Kacla, Cobilas etc. Steve Diamond is basically the only person in England interested in looking at Europe.

Tigers do host a camp in Belgium and have done for a number of years, I think its currently at Dendermonde and was previously at the Brussels international school, but no one has ever even made the academy from this route.


I fear sk88 is right. The Georgians are the key for this conclusion. If such a big number can make it in the Top14, ignorance is the only solution why they have not even slightly the numbers in both Pro14 and Premiership.
I mean Georgia is a rugby director's wet dream. A big pool of 1st row players and available for wages a Brit would probably never play for. That they don't even consider Georgians for backup players says a lot.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 22:05

Weren't working visas a lot stricter in UK?

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Re: T2/3 in European Pro Leagues 2017/18

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 18 Aug 2017, 22:27

You only have to have an international cap in the last 2 years, and that's the automatic minimum entry they can waive it if the club's can convince the RFU to sponsor the application.

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