Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

User avatar
Posts: 969
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 31 Aug 2018, 21:08

TheStroBro wrote: Eventually professionalism in the Southern Hemisphere will collapse unless you start filling the stadiums.

Well, if TV numbers are fine, perhaps not. But'having empty stadiums is a sign of disinterest in the sport.

Posts: 329
Joined: Wed, 11 Nov 2015, 17:11
Location: Boa Vista, Roraima (Amazon)
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby SallesNeto_BR » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 03:35

iul wrote:It's kind if weird how little faith the South Africans have in themselves. They have the biggest TV deal both in SR and in Pro14, yet they're scared to go at it alone and keep putting their teams in these multinational competitions. Why not get rid of the SR sides completely and make the Currie Cup their main competition and make it home and away.


I agree with you. They could create a great internal competition, or even inviting Argentinian franchinsings (or even some African rising country).

Something like a 7 SA + Jaguares + Rosário + Nairobi franchisings home and away league would be terrific.

Posts: 4337
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 13:24

They would keep losing players to Europe.

They are probably betting on big international sponsorship and broadcast contracts, not in Rands. Unfortunatly Argentina is broken. It is not a conmercial alternative.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

Posts: 770
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Tobar » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 14:22

Yeah there’s really not much money in SA alone. Lots of money came from playing against NZers.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 14:30

NaBUru38 wrote:
TheStroBro wrote: Eventually professionalism in the Southern Hemisphere will collapse unless you start filling the stadiums.

Well, if TV numbers are fine, perhaps not. But'having empty stadiums is a sign of disinterest in the sport.


Super Rugby is still the best attended league compared to the other big three. We just tend to play in bigger stadiums for the most part which hurts the look 9f the crowd. That's not to say it couldn't be healthier in that department.

TV viewership is the big one here. Which was up marginally this season. Still not great but steady.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 14:32

Tobar wrote:Yeah there’s really not much money in SA alone. Lots of money came from playing against NZers.


The SA money contribution is a bit conflated. It takes a lot of Rand to equal 1 USD. And there's a whole lot less available on the sponsorship side of the equation.

Posts: 770
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Tobar » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 14:46

Like you I’ve never understood why the focus was always on South Africa for the TV deal. Australia has a much better economy and stronger dollar. I believe it’s about $.75 US. Sure it’s a more crowded sports market but so is the US and we manage to do just fine.

Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 17:51

Tobar wrote:Like you I’ve never understood why the focus was always on South Africa for the TV deal. Australia has a much better economy and stronger dollar. I believe it’s about $.75 US. Sure it’s a more crowded sports market but so is the US and we manage to do just fine.


20 Million people living in Australia is the answer to your question. Rugby Union is the number 5 sport after AFL, NRL, Soccer and cricket. They are doing extremely well.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 987
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Thomas » Sun, 02 Sep 2018, 18:54

Closer to 25 million, the 2 main Rugby States are NSW and QLD followed by WA. the other have very small Rugby Union representation.

Western Australia has 2 1/2 Million and the main sports are AFL and Cricket. hence the ARU's problems are quantified. is just not about the TV Deal..

I remember growing up Western Sydney was Rugby League turf now you have AFL and Football (soccer) with professional setups. RU has been caught asleep at the wheel.

Cricket is still still the National sport in the summer nothing rivals it.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 09 Sep 2018, 09:46

AFL really hasn't done much in Western Sydney despite what propaganda they try to say. The reality is Rugby was always an Eastern Suburbs sport in Sydney and the West has been neglected for decades. Hopefully Forrest delivers on his promise for WSR and gets a team set up in Wester Sydney. The new Parramatta Stadium is due to open next year, so the team has a home waiting for them.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 02:04

Western Sydney team given the ARU approval.

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 503md.html

Posts: 770
Joined: Thu, 06 Apr 2017, 17:09
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Tobar » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 03:53

Honestly surprised that RA is getting behind WSR. I expected them to fully resist it as much as possible.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 03:57

If someone else can foot the bill for the areas they are knowingly neglecting they are happy to let them do it. Frankly, they don't have a choice but to support it.

Posts: 1359
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 04:38

thatrugbyguy wrote:If someone else can foot the bill for the areas they are knowingly neglecting they are happy to let them do it. Frankly, they don't have a choice but to support it.

Obviously Twiggy must have cut them a check.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 04:43

TheStroBro wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:If someone else can foot the bill for the areas they are knowingly neglecting they are happy to let them do it. Frankly, they don't have a choice but to support it.

Obviously Twiggy must have cut them a check.


A $4m cheque. Which will go into development works in Western Sydney which is a severely under served region that has desperately needed more resources injected into it. I'm from the region and I can tell you it's a huge untapped talent pool. Lots of our best athletes across many sports are born and raised here.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 04:58

And large Pacific island population out that way too.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 05:03

thatrugbyguy wrote:And large Pacific island population out that way too.


There's that as well.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 05:06

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Tobar wrote:Like you I’ve never understood why the focus was always on South Africa for the TV deal. Australia has a much better economy and stronger dollar. I believe it’s about $.75 US. Sure it’s a more crowded sports market but so is the US and we manage to do just fine.


20 Million people living in Australia is the answer to your question. Rugby Union is the number 5 sport after AFL, NRL, Soccer and cricket. They are doing extremely well.


It's 25m people and it actually has a sports entertainment market that is prepared to pay good money for a product it see's value in. If Rugby were brave enough in the early 90s to developed it's own domestic league here and was able to put up a good product the market saw value in the money equation would be entirely different.

Posts: 2318
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 14 Sep 2018, 09:44

Working Class Rugger wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Tobar wrote:Like you I’ve never understood why the focus was always on South Africa for the TV deal. Australia has a much better economy and stronger dollar. I believe it’s about $.75 US. Sure it’s a more crowded sports market but so is the US and we manage to do just fine.


20 Million people living in Australia is the answer to your question. Rugby Union is the number 5 sport after AFL, NRL, Soccer and cricket. They are doing extremely well.


It's 25m people and it actually has a sports entertainment market that is prepared to pay good money for a product it see's value in. If Rugby were brave enough in the early 90s to developed it's own domestic league here and was able to put up a good product the market saw value in the money equation would be entirely different.


That's another story, what they could have done more.
But if you look at were they came from against two well established sports leagues, which somehow managed to break in the other markets around the same time (AFL to NSW, NRL with less success outside of NSW, Queensland) they've done okay, coming from a solely amateur set-up. Not brilliant, bad not completely bad.
Sorry for not realizing that Australia nearly grew by 25% in the last 10 years. Unbelievable (and well deserved, a great country it definitely is).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 13:37

World Series Rugby given the tick of approval.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... b88975383z
Last edited by Working Class Rugger on Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 23:52, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 23:23

Link not working.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 28 Sep 2018, 23:53

thatrugbyguy wrote:Link not working.


Fixed.

I think it poses several of interesting questions.

- Will Aus players in WSR be Wallabies eligible?
- With two sides slated to be Japanese based (I'm going with the Wild Knights and Sungoliaths) what does that mean for the likes of the Sunwolves and the JRFU apparent plans to do away with them and replace them with a Top League team post 2019?
- Fiji has been named as one of the the 8 teams involved which is great. Would their inclusion make the bid for a combined PI squad based out of Hawaii more or less likely?
- What exactly will the NZ look like and where will they be based?, and
- It mentions the potential for two more teams to be included within a 5 year period. Where will they come from?

It would also offer opportunities in the short to medium term. The potential for a Champions Cup format between SR and WSR in time. If Wallabies eligible then a WSR vs SR annual 'trial' could be something worth investigating as well.

Posts: 1839
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 30 Sep 2018, 11:52

Working Class Rugger wrote:- Will Aus players in WSR be Wallabies eligible?


Have to be or this will be killed at birth/prompt a massive civil war. For me, I hate the way all unions try this blame and blackmail game. Just pick the best players and stop trying to guilt them onto your preferred teams.

Working Class Rugger wrote:- With two sides slated to be Japanese based (I'm going with the Wild Knights and Sungoliaths) what does that mean for the likes of the Sunwolves and the JRFU apparent plans to do away with them and replace them with a Top League team post 2019?


It seems like the Sunwolves are done regardless. Making them play half their games in another country 5,000 miles away was never going to work. Its almost as far to Brisbane as Tokyo from Singapore.

Working Class Rugger wrote:- Fiji has been named as one of the the 8 teams involved which is great. Would their inclusion make the bid for a combined PI squad based out of Hawaii more or less likely?


More likely, in so much as competition is more likely to spur development but still super unlikely as its a fairly crazy idea.

Working Class Rugger wrote:- What exactly will the NZ look like and where will they be based?


For me there are two options on location

1) Auckland
2) Large-ish provincial town without Super Rugby, so Bay of Plenty or Napier.

You'd have to go with Auckland, surely. Its massive so could easily support two pro teams and is a proper world city that these Far Eastern markets that they seem to be targeting will have heard of.

Team wise I'd expect a collection of Mitre 10 players and maybe some Samoan/Tongan internationals come back from Europe. Maybe a "marquee name" like Carter or Ma'a Nonu? Though I'm not sure that would impress Aucklanders that much.

Working Class Rugger wrote:- It mentions the potential for two more teams to be included within a 5 year period. Where will they come from?

It would also offer opportunities in the short to medium term. The potential for a Champions Cup format between SR and WSR in time. If Wallabies eligible then a WSR vs SR annual 'trial' could be something worth investigating as well.


The biggest nation not yet included is probably South Korea, but you'd think the expansion markets would be more Australian teams potentially a second Sydney side, Adelaide perhaps and then potentially more Japanese teams. KL in Malaysia could be a potential market for them too.

Posts: 4360
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 30 Sep 2018, 12:14

It's already been indicated WSR players will be eligible, at least Force players anyway and assumably Western Sydney, whether Australians playing for other teams outside the country will be is another story. The Japanese sides I fully expect to be Panasonic and Suntory. They are without doubt the two most recognisable names from the Japanese league so it makes sense for them to be involved. As for Fiji's inclusion, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's the NRC Fijian Drua side, there doesn't seem to be any real point IMO creating a brand new team for the country when Fiji Drua already are established and generate good support at home, so it's that's any easy one to slot in. As for the Pacific Island squad, given Forrest has already indicated having Western Sydney be a majority Pacific Island team I don't see the need for Hawaii to be included. Besides, Hawaii is a day behind timezone wise, so it makes no sense to have matches being screened at 12am on the east coast. As for the NZ team, I would maybe go somewhere were there isn't a big Super Rugby presences, maybe Napier or Bay of Plenty. As for potential future teams, Malaysia and Sri Lanka were in initial discussion, maybe maybe those markets are quite ready yet. The options I see are a third Japanese team, a second New Zealand team out of maybe Nelson or Invercargill, a New South Wales or Queensland country team playing out of either Newcastle or Townsville, a Korean team or a South Australian team.

Online
Posts: 1299
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 01 Oct 2018, 01:08

thatrugbyguy wrote:It's already been indicated WSR players will be eligible, at least Force players anyway and assumably Western Sydney, whether Australians playing for other teams outside the country will be is another story. The Japanese sides I fully expect to be Panasonic and Suntory. They are without doubt the two most recognisable names from the Japanese league so it makes sense for them to be involved. As for Fiji's inclusion, it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's the NRC Fijian Drua side, there doesn't seem to be any real point IMO creating a brand new team for the country when Fiji Drua already are established and generate good support at home, so it's that's any easy one to slot in. As for the Pacific Island squad, given Forrest has already indicated having Western Sydney be a majority Pacific Island team I don't see the need for Hawaii to be included. Besides, Hawaii is a day behind timezone wise, so it makes no sense to have matches being screened at 12am on the east coast. As for the NZ team, I would maybe go somewhere were there isn't a big Super Rugby presences, maybe Napier or Bay of Plenty. As for potential future teams, Malaysia and Sri Lanka were in initial discussion, maybe maybe those markets are quite ready yet. The options I see are a third Japanese team, a second New Zealand team out of maybe Nelson or Invercargill, a New South Wales or Queensland country team playing out of either Newcastle or Townsville, a Korean team or a South Australian team.


Tauranga is one of the larger NZ cities these days. Which is in the BOP area. Might be a reasonable option. But I suspect it will be in the Auckland metro area and likely out of Nth Harbour's stadium.

One of the initial stated goals was bringing Aus eligible talent back into a competition that would allow them to become into contention. I personally think that should be highly encouraged. It's something I've supported in concept in Super Rugby for sometime. I have even advocated looking to set up X number of squad spots for the likes of Argentinean and Japanese talent in the days of S15 as a means of including both nations without having to add new teams as well as opening the talent market allowing anyone to play for any team and still be eligible as long as they are playing in SR.

As for future teams. From an Australian perspective. I actually think a GC team is quite likely. Purely from a recognition point of view but I would certainly like to see an Adelaide squad.

In regards to Wst Syd linking up with the Islands is smart but entirely relying on them isn't. There's a large PI diaspora in the region but that's relative and it only makes up a very small % of the total population it also needs to appeal to the larger community as a whole and that means they need to feel linked to the team via the development of local talent etc.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BigG, Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], vino_93, Working Class Rugger and 18 guests