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Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Thomas » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:45

victorsra wrote:Of course. But that you solve using a proper tour system, with Jaguares playing all its 5 matches in NZ a row, for exemple, followed or preceded by a bye weekend. For Kiwis travelling to Argentina, as it would be just once in a season, it should follow or precede their bye weekend.


Anything is possible, Jaguares or any squad could do it. They need a good sports scientist to manage their circadian rhythm that is how the Lions and touring squads pull it off.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby carbonero » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:53

victorsra wrote:Conclusion: it doesn't matter if Argentina will play Super Rugby or PRO14. Neither of them is better or worse. The Jaguares are fucked anyway until there is a larger professional scene in South America.

I’m not advocating for any of those options. It’s just that you speak about playing 5 weeks in a row in NZ like it’s a breeze. That would be mayhem for any team in the world.

Think about the players. The best teams in the world will kick your ass for five consecutive weekends. You have to cope with intercontinental travel. You have to cope with jet lag. Also, have you ever been on a tour? By the 4th week, you want to kill yourself. It’s not sustainable. You will burn the players both mentally and physically. Why would they stay home when they have the opportunity to live a much more comfortable life in Europe?

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 23:31

Right now South Afica will play 4 matches in Europe. Australia played 5 in a row in Europe recently. Not to mention the Lions tour. Of course I understand they dont do this every year, but it is not the mayhem you are saying because they would have what few teams in the world have: a month at home too. I am not saying it is easy, just that there is no better option for the franchise if it supposed to exist.

What i want to say is Super Rugby could have manage it. And they opted for suicide allowing South Africans to go to Europe and messing up in Australia.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 23:36

Without more options within South America looking at the situation that will inevitable require a great deal of travel. The Pro14 still remains the more ideal destination for the Jaguares. Travel sucks but its the crossing of time zones that are the real killer in that equation. Argentina is only 3 - 4 hours behind the UK from what I can tell which means a lot less disruption to players sleep cycles etc.

Either that or the Argentine Union comes to some kind of agreement with say the Spanish Union to base the team in Madrid for the run of the season.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 02 Nov 2017, 18:00

Working Class Rugger wrote:Without more options within South America looking at the situation that will inevitable require a great deal of travel.

Travel sucks but its the crossing of time zones that are the real killer in that equation.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby kush123 » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 01:55

Discussions on Indo- Pacific rugby Championship in Sri Lanka

[youtube] https://youtu.be/U-sUlOHPXx4 [/youtube]

[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-sUlOH ... e=youtu.be [/youtube]

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby kush123 » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 03:31

Sri Lanka Sports Minister, SLRU & IPR! Collaboration central!! Fantastic meeting #IPRugby #IndoPacRugby #RugbySriLanka https://t.co/FwvFlCR4fO

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby kush123 » Fri, 03 Nov 2017, 03:36

Potential Sri Lankan grounds for IPRC. Great atmosphere to be had here! #IPRC #IndoPacRugby #RugbySriLanka https://t.co/1sNcmU6lXY

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 00:30

Apparently Sri Lanka hasn't been their only set of meetings. They've been in Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan and Kuala Lumpur.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 01:41

There seems to be decent interest in Malaysia in terms of support, what's the interest in Sri Lanka like?

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 01:58

victorsra wrote:Conclusion: it doesn't matter if Argentina will play Super Rugby or PRO14. Neither of them is better or worse. The Jaguares are fucked anyway until there is a larger professional scene in South America.


What would it take to get say an 8 team South American pro league up and running?

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 02:00

thatrugbyguy wrote:There seems to be decent interest in Malaysia in terms of support, what's the interest in Sri Lanka like?


Well, they met with the Sports Minister in Columbo. So at a governmental level it seems to be there. Looking at their destinations the one I'm most surprised with as part of the initial grouping is Sri Lanka. More to do with the time zones than anything else. The rest are near perfect.

Probably the least likely would be Japan at present. But if it were on the cards look for the Wild Knights to be the likely entrant. They've been making some noises about becoming more ambitious in their outlook in regards to competition and the IPRC would suit them nicely. I honestly don't think it could hurt Japan to have a 3nd side competing in a trans-national competition. Especially if my suspicions prove correct and we see SA move north en mass post 2020. Automatic rivalry set in place when the Sunwolves likely jump across.

So from the looks of it. If we were to take the locations of these meetings into account the IPRC will consist of the Force, a Sri Lankan based franchise, a KL based franchise, a Singapore based franchise (natural rival to KL which is a smart move), Hong Kong and a Japanese franchise. Not a bad spread.

In a post 2020 world. The IPRC could see the other 4 Australian franchises join. The Sunwolves and perhaps even a Fijian squad. Find a 14th squad somewhere and that would be a pretty good structure to grow from.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 02:07

Working Class Rugger wrote:Well, they met with the Sports Minister in Columbo. So at a governmental level it seems to be there. Looking at their destinations the one I'm most surprised with as part of the initial grouping is Sri Lanka. More to do with the time zones than anything else. The rest are near perfect.

Probably the least likely would be Japan at present. But if it were on the cards look for the Wild Knights to be the likely entrant. They've been making some noises about becoming more ambitious in their outlook in regards to competition and the IPRC would suit them nicely. I honestly don't think it could hurt Japan to have a 3nd side competing in a trans-national competition. Especially if my suspicions prove correct and we see SA move north en mass post 2020. Automatic rivalry set in place when the Sunwolves likely jump across.

So from the looks of it. If we were to take the locations of these meetings into account the IPRC will consist of the Force, a Sri Lankan based franchise, a KL based franchise, a Singapore based franchise (natural rival to KL which is a smart move), Hong Kong and a Japanese franchise. Not a bad spread.

In a post 2020 world. The IPRC could see the other 4 Australian franchises join. The Sunwolves and perhaps even a Fijian squad. Find a 14th squad somewhere and that would be a pretty good structure to grow from.


I tend to agree, post 2020 if this thing works I can easily see the Super Rugby franchises joining along with Fijian Drua and the Sunwolves. I have no idea what New Zealand would do in this situation. I guess it's possible the 4 remaining SA sides and the 5 NZ teams stick together, adding in an additional team from somewhere. NZ would have enough talent for 6 teams.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 02:12

thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:Conclusion: it doesn't matter if Argentina will play Super Rugby or PRO14. Neither of them is better or worse. The Jaguares are fucked anyway until there is a larger professional scene in South America.


What would it take to get say an 8 team South American pro league up and running?


A lot of money you would imagine. You'd have to imagine that it would need to be largely Argentine based with say 4 of the 8 teams. Then they'd be one each from Uruguay, Chile, Brazil and maybe Colombia. To keep costs somewhat restrained it could be organised into two pools of 4 teams each. Play you in pool rivals twice for 6 games and one game each against the other 4 trams in the other pool. For 10 games in total. Top two from each pool onto the finals. So 12 weeks in total.

With the Argentine Union supposedly looking to develop 'professional' clubs perhaps this model might be a good option for them. Look to develop one club from each of the four strongest Rugby regions in Argentina and compete against teams from the four I mentioned above. Petition WR to cover the travel and accommodation costs as they currently do for the Drua in the NRC.

The key then would be around finding the money to run these teams. Including compensating the players for say a 16-20 weeks commitment.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 02:15

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:Well, they met with the Sports Minister in Columbo. So at a governmental level it seems to be there. Looking at their destinations the one I'm most surprised with as part of the initial grouping is Sri Lanka. More to do with the time zones than anything else. The rest are near perfect.

Probably the least likely would be Japan at present. But if it were on the cards look for the Wild Knights to be the likely entrant. They've been making some noises about becoming more ambitious in their outlook in regards to competition and the IPRC would suit them nicely. I honestly don't think it could hurt Japan to have a 3nd side competing in a trans-national competition. Especially if my suspicions prove correct and we see SA move north en mass post 2020. Automatic rivalry set in place when the Sunwolves likely jump across.

So from the looks of it. If we were to take the locations of these meetings into account the IPRC will consist of the Force, a Sri Lankan based franchise, a KL based franchise, a Singapore based franchise (natural rival to KL which is a smart move), Hong Kong and a Japanese franchise. Not a bad spread.

In a post 2020 world. The IPRC could see the other 4 Australian franchises join. The Sunwolves and perhaps even a Fijian squad. Find a 14th squad somewhere and that would be a pretty good structure to grow from.


I tend to agree, post 2020 if this thing works I can easily see the Super Rugby franchises joining along with Fijian Drua and the Sunwolves. I have no idea what New Zealand would do in this situation. I guess it's possible the 4 remaining SA sides and the 5 NZ teams stick together, adding in an additional team from somewhere. NZ would have enough talent for 6 teams.


Part of me says 'who cares' when it comes to what the Kiwis will do. But in reality, if this looks like taking off and we jump and the four remaining SA franchises don't go north (which is a big if at present) then I can see them continuing on with the Jaguares in a 10 team competition. It would just be a matter of how they would want to structure it. Each plays one another twice for 18 rounds of two conferences of 5 etc. etc.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 03:27

My gut tells me SA will just cut their losses and move entirely to Pro14 if our teams jump ship. I'm not sure what New Zealand does in that instance.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 04 Nov 2017, 04:00

thatrugbyguy wrote:My gut tells me SA will just cut their losses and move entirely to Pro14 if our teams jump ship. I'm not sure what New Zealand does in that instance.


They could either look to supercharge their domestic structures or petition for inclusion in the IPRC I guess.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 05 Nov 2017, 12:44

New comp is going head to head with Super Rugby, ARU has given the ok. Looks like players will be still eligible for the Wallabies but not 100% confirmed yet.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Sun, 05 Nov 2017, 17:18

thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:Conclusion: it doesn't matter if Argentina will play Super Rugby or PRO14. Neither of them is better or worse. The Jaguares are fucked anyway until there is a larger professional scene in South America.


What would it take to get say an 8 team South American pro league up and running?


Money and a sustainable market.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 01:17

Competition won't start until 2019 now. Now looks like only Western Force players might remain eligible for the Wallabies. So that gives the IPRC a good 18 months to get its house in order and develop its 5 other teams, and start generating support from where ever the teams are going to be. So the fact this is going to be played during the same period as Super Rugby is interesting. If the Aussie SR teams breakaway and join IPRC then the transition is going to be smooth

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 01:44

A good and important question: what would happen with the Indo-Pacific Championship IF the other 4 South Africans agree to move to the PRO14 for the 2019-2020 European season? Super Rugby contracts will end after the 2019 season, right? In such scenario I guess the Force would be invited to rejoin a Pacific Super Rugby...
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 02:25

Contract ends after 2020, so SA can join the European leagues in August of that year if they wanted.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 03:34

So we can see the Indo-Pacific kicking off in 2019, having 2 seasons to grow rugby in Asia and being merged with Super Rugby in 2021.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 06:04

thatrugbyguy wrote:Competition won't start until 2019 now. Now looks like only Western Force players might remain eligible for the Wallabies. So that gives the IPRC a good 18 months to get its house in order and develop its 5 other teams, and start generating support from where ever the teams are going to be. So the fact this is going to be played during the same period as Super Rugby is interesting. If the Aussie SR teams breakaway and join IPRC then the transition is going to be smooth


They are working for eligibility for all Aus players within the entire structure as opposed to just the Force. Which to be honest makes the most sense in my opinion. Even if (when) the other four franchises jump across in the aftermath of SR's collapse it should remain as so. Can only present us with more depth which can never hurt.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 06 Nov 2017, 06:05

victorsra wrote:So we can see the Indo-Pacific kicking off in 2019, having 2 seasons to grow rugby in Asia and being merged with Super Rugby in 2021.


Use Aus as the base to build off. All good as far as I'm concerned.

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