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Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby eal22 » Sun, 29 Oct 2017, 20:07

New Zealand could probably field a sixth franchise in this tournament if it wanted to. I reckon the north shore of Auckland might be a good place, North Harbour fans have never really got behind the Blues who are too connected to the old enemy of Auckland.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 29 Oct 2017, 20:38

I thought it was interesting that NZ was listed as a market too.

Its ballsy and would be a big ask to take on the NZ RFU.

Might be more sensible to poach a squads worth of NZ players and use them across the league? That's basically what England and France do when you boil it down.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby eal22 » Sun, 29 Oct 2017, 23:06

sk 88 wrote:I thought it was interesting that NZ was listed as a market too.

Its ballsy and would be a big ask to take on the NZ RFU.

Might be more sensible to poach a squads worth of NZ players and use them across the league? That's basically what England and France do when you boil it down.


Probably three squads-worth of South Africans.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 29 Oct 2017, 23:23

Wouldn't a league like this actually be in NZRU best interests? If Forrest is wanting sanctioning from the ARU in order for players to be in Wallabies contention I see no reason why an arrangement can't be made with NZ to have Kiwi players remain in All Black contention. Especially when it's a far more favourable region.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Paula Bale » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 00:54

eal22 wrote:New Zealand could probably field a sixth franchise in this tournament if it wanted to. I reckon the north shore of Auckland might be a good place, North Harbour fans have never really got behind the Blues who are too connected to the old enemy of Auckland.


North Harbour fans don't get behind North Harbour. Nothing to do with the Blues. One of the most apathetic provinces in all New Zealand sport (although they do love the Breakers basketball franchise).

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby eal22 » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 01:44

Paula Bale wrote:
eal22 wrote:New Zealand could probably field a sixth franchise in this tournament if it wanted to. I reckon the north shore of Auckland might be a good place, North Harbour fans have never really got behind the Blues who are too connected to the old enemy of Auckland.


North Harbour fans don't get behind North Harbour. Nothing to do with the Blues. One of the most apathetic provinces in all New Zealand sport (although they do love the Breakers basketball franchise).


I remember back in the mid-90s North Harbour rugby was quite popular - back in the Onewa Domain days. The move to Albany seemed to kill enthusiasm off. That being said I never wanted to go out to Albany when I lived in Auckland either - felt like going half-way to Kaitaia.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Sables4EVA » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 06:18

Has there been any talk of SA teams getting involved, the Pumas and the Griquas would add some spice to any competition. They have been posting interesting results in the Currie Cup against what are basically Super Rugby sides.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 07:42

Sables4EVA wrote:Has there been any talk of SA teams getting involved, the Pumas and the Griquas would add some spice to any competition. They have been posting interesting results in the Currie Cup against what are basically Super Rugby sides.


None whatsoever. The entire focus of the competition is to sit within a handful of time zones that encompass the Australian continent primarily with the PI's being the east most options and Perth the western edge.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 07:46

Sables4EVA wrote:Has there been any talk of SA teams getting involved, the Pumas and the Griquas would add some spice to any competition. They have been posting interesting results in the Currie Cup against what are basically Super Rugby sides.


Good idea, that should make a great competition, a super competition. Hey, lets call it Super Rugby! Wait. :lol:
Nothing against you Sables, but it is really astounding, that after all discussions we always end up with the very same idea with the same old teams.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 30 Oct 2017, 10:33

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:Has there been any talk of SA teams getting involved, the Pumas and the Griquas would add some spice to any competition. They have been posting interesting results in the Currie Cup against what are basically Super Rugby sides.


Good idea, that should make a great competition, a super competition. Hey, lets call it Super Rugby! Wait. :lol:
Nothing against you Sables, but it is really astounding, that after all discussions we always end up with the very same idea with the same old teams.


Well, it depends more on who's having the conversations.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Sables4EVA » Tue, 31 Oct 2017, 16:54

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Sables4EVA wrote:Has there been any talk of SA teams getting involved, the Pumas and the Griquas would add some spice to any competition. They have been posting interesting results in the Currie Cup against what are basically Super Rugby sides.


Good idea, that should make a great competition, a super competition. Hey, lets call it Super Rugby! Wait. :lol:
Nothing against you Sables, but it is really astounding, that after all discussions we always end up with the very same idea with the same old teams.


Wind your neck in. No need to get snarky.

I only asked if they had been mentioned at all, to see how serious this competition was being taken. I wasn't proposing thy be involved.

Thanks WCR for the reasonable reply.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Figaro » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 09:00

If you believe some random South African on the ScumV Welsh forum, the Pumas and Griqas are off to the Pro14, possibly in place of the Kings.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 10:20

Figaro wrote:If you believe some random South African on the ScumV Welsh forum, the Pumas and Griqas are off to the Pro14, possibly in place of the Kings.


A joint venture or individually. A JV would make the most sense and really couldn't be any worse than the Kings. But ideally, I'd like to see the Kings remain until the end of the current SANZAAR deal and then the whole of SA move across as a bloc. Then off the Kings and bring the Jaguares with SA.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 10:26

You want Glasgow to play Buenos Aires in a "domestic" league?

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 10:34

sk 88 wrote:You want Glasgow to play Buenos Aires in a "domestic" league?


The Pro14 isn't a 'domestic' league. It's a trans-national provincial league which spans 5 nations with SA entering the fray. A flight to BA isn't that much longer than to Johannesburg and about the same as to Port Elizabeth via JoBurg. It also isn't that far out in regards to time zones which is what the bigger killer on the travel side of things are.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Figaro » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 13:21

sk 88 wrote:You want Glasgow to play Buenos Aires in a "domestic" league?


Makes no less sense than Glasgow playing Bloemfontein, or Buenos Aires playing Syndey.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 13:34

Flight times:

Buenos Aires - Glasgow - 16h
Buenos Aires - Cardiff - 16h
Buenos Aires - Venezia/Treviso - 16h
Buenos Aires - Dunedin - 16h
Buenos Aires - Brisbane - 17h
Buenos Aires - Galway - 18h
Buenos Aires - Cape Town - 18h
Buenos Aires - Tokyo - 25h

Just Google it. Flight times depend on flghts available, stops and etc. Argentina is unconnected to most of those rugby nations anyway. At least Europe and Africa have better time zones for Argentina's TV.

It also shows how premeditated was Force, Cheetahs and Kings exclusion from Super Rugby, as Jaguares could be in NZ's conference if travel were the issue. The only issue about Jaguares n NZ would be TV, but Saturday afternoon matches in NZ wold be Friday night matches in Argentina, that could work. And Friday night matches in Buenos Aires would be Saturday afternoon in NZ. Exemple 10 PM in Buenos Aires = 1 PM in Auckland in April.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby carbonero » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 16:52

victorsra wrote:The only issue about Jaguares n NZ would be TV, but Saturday afternoon matches in NZ wold be Friday night matches in Argentina, that could work. And Friday night matches in Buenos Aires would be Saturday afternoon in NZ. Exemple 10 PM in Buenos Aires = 1 PM in Auckland in April.

How can you say that the only issue is TV? There is a 16 hour time difference!!!!!!!!

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 17:41

Figaro wrote:
sk 88 wrote:You want Glasgow to play Buenos Aires in a "domestic" league?


Makes no less sense than Glasgow playing Bloemfontein, or Buenos Aires playing Syndey.


Quite.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 21:18

How can you say that the only issue is TV? There is a 16 hour time difference!!!!!!!!


Look what I wrote:

In March/April/May/June/July:

Saturday 1 PM in Auckland = Friday 10 PM in Buenos Aires

Friday 8 PM in Buenos Aires = Saturday 11 AM in Auckland

Tell me: is it that problematic? It is NOT a problem if you place de kickoff in the proper times. The shit for us in South America is that NZ always put All Blacks matches kicking off at 8:30 PM NZ time, which is 4:30 AM here. NZRU throws away Argentina's TV rates in the Rugby Championship, at least for the Pumas-All Blacks matches. But in Super Rugby this can be fixed.

And Jaguares would benefit with Friday night matches, as Argentina's club rugby captures rugby people on Saturday afternoons. Jaguares' attendances were far from good.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby carbonero » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:17

I’m talking about player welfare. That amount of jet lag just drains an athlete.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:21

Of course. But that you solve using a proper tour system, with Jaguares playing all its 5 matches in NZ a row, for exemple, followed or preceded by a bye weekend. For Kiwis travelling to Argentina, as it would be just once in a season, it should follow or precede their bye weekend.
Last edited by victorsra on Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby carbonero » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:24

victorsra wrote:Jaguares playing all its 5 matches in NZ a row.

This is the definition of torture

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:25

And look: PRO14 has more matches and travels than Super Rugby. This means that probably player welfare issues are as bad in PRO14 as in Super Rugby. It s a choice between jet lag wth less travels or more travels with less jet leg.

This is the definition of torture

1 month travelling followed by a month without leaving home? There is an obvious compensation. In PRO14 you have a minimum of 11 matches in Europe or South Africa, no Christmas/New Year rest and a smaller offseason, while Super Rugby has a minimum 8 matches abroad but with 2 byes and a bigger offseason.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Wed, 01 Nov 2017, 22:35

Conclusion: it doesn't matter if Argentina will play Super Rugby or PRO14. Neither of them is better or worse. The Jaguares are fucked anyway until there is a larger professional scene in South America.
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