Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby datodato » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 09:43

Let's wait and see. These are the games where players can establish themself. Gorgodze and Zira were not established in 2007 and we still managed to nearly beat Ireland. I'm optimistic that our players will step up and beat Italy. At the same time it must be said that every time Georgia had the opportunity to perform on the big stage against 6N Teams like Ireland and Scotland, they choked. I think they did not believe they could win. Against Italy it is different. A win against Italy means everything for the fans and the young players. And let's not forget: Italy lost to Scotland in Singapore, Fiji and Australia. And Australia was really weak at that point. If they lose all their November Tests (maybe expcept Fiji), lose all the 6N games with big margins and then lose all their June-tour games again, it will be a big psychological blow for them and Georgia could exploit it.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Bruce_ma_goose » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 10:55

I'm certainly not knocking Georgia or their fans and they have reason to be optimistic. If this game had happened any time in the past three years, home or away, Italy would have been extremely vulnerable.

But there are repeated signs of a major improvement in the Italian Pro14 sides and this can only filter through into the national side. By the time this fixture hopefully comes around I expect Italy to be back in the world top 10.

This is the weaker Italian side, Zebre, last week in South Africa. The side was pretty much entirely Italian.

https://youtu.be/bDmSbjcPCtI

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby datodato » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 11:46

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:I'm certainly not knocking Georgia or their fans and they have reason to be optimistic. If this game had happened any time in the past three years, home or away, Italy would have been extremely vulnerable.

But there are repeated signs of a major improvement in the Italian Pro14 sides and this can only filter through into the national side. By the time this fixture hopefully comes around I expect Italy to be back in the world top 10.

This is the weaker Italian side, Zebre, last week in South Africa. The side was pretty much entirely Italian.

https://youtu.be/bDmSbjcPCtI


I agree with you, italian teams looking stronger at the moment, but the season is long and I can't see them winning the 6N. Wales looks strong (Scarlets), France looks better (Clermont), Scotland (Glasgow) and England or Ireland as well. So it's great that Zebre and Treviso have won two games so far, but it doesn't mean anything I believe and it is sad that everyone is wondering that italian teams are winning back to back games in a competition including Southern Kings and Dragons. We will see if they manage to build momentum, but so far they lost every test match this year and the only team they could beat im November is Fiji and Fiji is not a weak team at the moment, they have a great squad. Italy already lost to Fiji when Fiji was playing without their best players (Nadolo, Osborne, ...) this year. I am just saying that if Italy will lose every game this year (except one) and every game at the 6N and June-Tests next year, they will have a winning ratio of 0%-5% over two years. This would be a psychological blow for them. But still I absolutely think that Georgia is the underdog. I believe we should wait and see how they will play against Wales.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Figaro » Mon, 02 Oct 2017, 07:37

datodato wrote: it is sad that everyone is wondering that italian teams are winning back to back games in a competition including Southern Kings and Dragons.


Except only one of the four Italian wins so far was against either of those teams!

The Ospreys beat Edinburgh (away) and 4-time champions Ospreys. Zebre beat the Kings, who are just dead weight at the moment so yes, on its own that proved nothing, but then they beat Ulster. The most Zebre have managed in a league season before is 5 wins (which included a double vs. Treviso) and they already have two from five, and even assuming they don't get another result like Ulster they have fixtures still to come to come against the Dragons, Edinburgh, Connacht, and three versus Treviso, so it's very possible this will end up being their best season to date.

If anything Treviso have an even better run: two fixtures against the Kings to come (and you wouldn't bet against them winning both of those), two games against the Dragons, Edinburgh at home, and three games against Zebre. Their record (10 wins in 2012-13) will be tougher to match or beat, but just 6 wins would be their best result in years and they should at least manage that.

It would be supremely ironic if the first season after they removed automatic Champions Cup qualification for the Italians, one of them qualified on merit!

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby BigG » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 13:08

Frankly, I do not know why the hell we (Georgians) need this game in case it is played in Italy. The intrigue is there: which one is the best 6th nation in Europe? Italy's performance in 6Ns received substantiated criticism. Taking that into account, they obviously need to proof that they are stronger than Georgia. We all know, a home advantage matters. If Italians take over Georgia on their home ground it is not a big surprise. Consequently all discussions about Georgia joining 6Ns will be postponed for a long time. Therefore, I believe Georgian Rugby Union should refuse to play in Italy.
However I would support an idea to have in 2018 home-away games between above teams or to have the rival at neutral field.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby datodato » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 14:48

BigG wrote:Frankly, I do not know why the hell we (Georgians) need this game in case it is played in Italy. The intrigue is there: which one is the best 6th nation in Europe? Italy's performance in 6Ns received substantiated criticism. Taking that into account, they obviously need to proof that they are stronger than Georgia. We all know, a home advantage matters. If Italians take over Georgia on their home ground it is not a big surprise. Consequently all discussions about Georgia joining 6Ns will be postponed for a long time. Therefore, I believe Georgian Rugby Union should refuse to play in Italy.
However I would support an idea to have in 2018 home-away games between above teams or to have the rival at neutral field.


100% agree. On the other Hand Italy lost to Tonga on their home ground and if we could manage to beat them there, it would be a big positive. On the other Hand it is a bad situation for Georgia either way: If we win, 6N will not let us in anyway. They will say it doesn't matter because 6N has nothing to do with World Rugby. If we loose, well then we will loose the argument quite easily. I think Italy and the 6N sniffed an oppurtunity against Georgia after we lost against Romania and the poor games at the ENC in general. But let's hope we will win that game. As someone said: it will be interesting if Gorgodze and Zira will come out of their retirement for that game. It might be the biggest game in the history of Georgian Rugby.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 19:54

Figaro wrote:It would be supremely ironic if the first season after they removed automatic Champions Cup qualification for the Italians, one of them qualified on merit!


Wouldn't that actually justify it? Rather than be ironic?

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby fullbackace » Wed, 04 Oct 2017, 04:32

sk 88 wrote:
Figaro wrote:It would be supremely ironic if the first season after they removed automatic Champions Cup qualification for the Italians, one of them qualified on merit!


Wouldn't that actually justify it? Rather than be ironic?



If that's the reason they're performing.. hell, they should've done it years ago.
Don't Pray For Easy lives, Pray for enough Beer!

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Figaro » Thu, 05 Oct 2017, 11:35

sk 88 wrote:
Figaro wrote:It would be supremely ironic if the first season after they removed automatic Champions Cup qualification for the Italians, one of them qualified on merit!


Wouldn't that actually justify it? Rather than be ironic?


Well the rationale for removing it hasn't been about their performance in the league, but that they've (both Treviso and Zebre in recent years as well as the likes of Viadana back before the PRO12) performed woefully in the champions cup and are essentially 10 free points for all the other teams in their group. In a competition where the best 2nd placed teams in the groups go through having an Italian team has been a huge advantage as it effectively leaves you with 3 teams competing for 2 places rather than 4 competing for 1 or 2.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Fri, 06 Oct 2017, 12:27

Nigel Owens as referee!!! We all want to watch that clash, BUT Nigel Owens must be referee! He is most neutral and best rugby referee in the world!

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 06 Oct 2017, 17:08

Figaro wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
Figaro wrote:It would be supremely ironic if the first season after they removed automatic Champions Cup qualification for the Italians, one of them qualified on merit!


Wouldn't that actually justify it? Rather than be ironic?


Well the rationale for removing it hasn't been about their performance in the league, but that they've (both Treviso and Zebre in recent years as well as the likes of Viadana back before the PRO12) performed woefully in the champions cup and are essentially 10 free points for all the other teams in their group. In a competition where the best 2nd placed teams in the groups go through having an Italian team has been a huge advantage as it effectively leaves you with 3 teams competing for 2 places rather than 4 competing for 1 or 2.



Yes it has. That's pretty much been the only argument for it I've ever read since they joined the Celtic League.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby datodato » Sat, 21 Oct 2017, 06:29

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Nigel Owens as referee!!! We all want to watch that clash, BUT Nigel Owens must be referee! He is most neutral and best rugby referee in the world!


I bet you: Lacey, JP Doyle or another Irish or English ref. Better than Owens would be a French ref. They understand us better at scrum-time. Owens want's a more open game, the French would let us push in the scrums as Long as it is necesarry to push the Italians over.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Canalina » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 11:17

Nutella, one of the most renowned italian products (just after pizza but before Michelangelo and Botticelli), is made with georgian nuts! http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2017/10 ... 179278095/

They could create the Nutella Trophy for this italo-georgian duel :)

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 11:56

datodato wrote: the French would let us push in the scrums as Long as it is necesarry to push the Italians over.

Italians are quite good in scrums.Maybe Georgia is better but will not dominate them to bad in this sector.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby lelopride » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 12:14

Canalina wrote:Nutella, one of the most renowned italian products (just after pizza but before Michelangelo and Botticelli), is made with georgian nuts! http://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2017/10 ... 179278095/

They could create the Nutella Trophy for this italo-georgian duel :)


The hazelnuts brought across the river from Abkhazia are most likely going to be certified in Zugdidi, Georgia proper. Unless ofcourse they block the movement of goods altogether.

So Georgian hazelnut from Abkhazia will still find its way to EU market and Nutella in particular. :thumbup:

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby MisterXV » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 12:44

2018 likely to be an Italy vs REC showdown because will play vs Oaks in November as well and there's a big chance for a June 2019 match too.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby Kiroshi » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 13:20

MisterXV wrote:2018 likely to be an Italy vs REC showdown because will play vs Oaks in November as well and there's a big chance for a June 2019 match too.


Actually Italy will play GEO in Autumn 2018, although after RWC that match was "promised" to us.
WR simply won't let us play T1(I don't know why). At least not until 2020 when the new global calendar comes into play.
We are the only T2 country without a T1 test match since 2006 and this will likely not change until 2020.
On a positive note, at least we aren't forced to play Kenya or Sri Lanka or whatever tier 100 country.
No offense to these rugby nations, but we had enough tier 3 matches, without A SINGLE GOD DAMN T1 test in the last 10 years although we are ranked 15 and we have a decent chance at overtaking Italy.

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Re: Georgia v Italy -the long awaited showdown! (TBC)

Postby MisterXV » Wed, 25 Oct 2017, 13:24

Well, we played Brazil and we were close to play South Korea if they would have had find money to travel

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