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Rugby League World Cup 2017

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Osmanperalta » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 20:48

I dont know, when World Cup 2019 starts they will be crazy for their union teams again... and I dont believe that the pacific teams are mistreated by the world rugby in fact oceania has more direct world cup spot than europe (to which instead of rewarding the performance of Georgia they were punished by removing a spot to give to the islanders) without mentioning they always receive a Tier 1 team at home every year , which doesnt happen with Romania or Georgia

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Immenso » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 21:04

JamesWales wrote:Fair play to the RL world cup - It has been better than I though, and critically, it's been more competitive.

I wouldn't blame the pacific islands for shifting focus to League - World Rugby needs to seriously start redistributing funds better or Union will play second fiddle.


World Rugby distribute probably 10,000,000% more funds to the Pacific Islands than what the RLIF ever could possibly do.

That isn't really the issue IMO.

In Australasia there are 15 professional RL teams (NRL) and 9 professional RU teams (Super Rugby). There will always be plenty of Pacific heritage players playing professional RL in Australasia.

The reason there are only 9 professional RU teams is due to competitive economics. There would be the money, talent and the support for more if they were in an isolated bubble without competition from European and Japanese clubs able to pay more for the same talent.

But there is still also plenty of Pacific heritage players playing professional RU in Australasia, and plenty playing semi-pro and amateur as a stepping stone.

Pumping money into the islands? Well, where does it go.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby BertSolomon » Tue, 21 Nov 2017, 21:46

Immenso wrote:
JamesWales wrote:The reason there are only 9 professional RU teams is due to competitive economics. There would be the money, talent and the support for more if they were in an isolated bubble without competition from European and Japanese clubs able to pay more for the same talent.


Not so sure about that. The real competition for money, talent and support - in Australia if not not NZ - is AFL, NRL and to a lesser extent the A-league.

But also, Australasian RU restricts its growth by wanting to control everything centrally through the national unions. There's very little scope for private investors and entrepreneurs to come in. Whereas European clubs are often backed by businessmen who put money in because they want to grow the product. These people are often vilified but because of them interest in rugby is at unprecedented levels in places with historically little tradition for watching club rugby - London, Paris, Lyon, Newcastle, Worcester, Exeter... That's why European clubs can pay more for the talent.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 00:14

Rugby League is doing quite well in Lebanon seemingly: http://www.rlfans.com/index.php?id=1992

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Coloradoan » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 00:21

eal22 wrote:Rugby League is doing quite well in Lebanon seemingly: http://www.rlfans.com/index.php?id=1992


That's a pretty standard puff piece that doesn't really have much to say about the actual state of the game in Lebanon.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 11:06

Just finished watching the semi-final between Australia and Fiji at the RLWC. Final socre 54-6. Australia in a canter. If all the tries were converted it would have been something like 62 or 64-6. It was not competitive at all. Near the end the commentators mentioned that Fiji are growing and developing. Overlooking that bar four of the team most of the Fijian squad were born and raised in Australia.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby olivier » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 11:34

RLWC lost any credits.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby AXLstockholm » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 12:07

Looked like an absolute shocker of a crowd in Brisbane (all of cities). Pretty much sums up the interest in this tournament even for the die hard league fans.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 12:50

The international game isn't the pinnacle of RL like it is RU.

Anyway, record crowd expected in NZ for England vs Tonga, which was always going to be the better of the two semifinals.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11947750

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby aston » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 20:55

My favorite code as a young boy was League, until we moved to Sweden where League (up until recently) was non-existent. I haven't watched it at all for the better part of 20 years, but I decided I'd give this RLWC a shot to see if my youths passion for the sport could be re-ignited. A couple of reflections so far:

* Crowds have largely been dissapointing. There's no bigger turn off than to see a match of any kind played in front of near/half-empty stadia. So this has severely damaged my ability to appreciate the matches. I read somewhere that attendees have made up on average 43% of the total capacity. And that's even with quite a lot of small stadiums being used. PNG crowds for all their games plus the Tongan crowds have been great though and somewhat salvaged the total apathy towards the RLWC showed by Australian and New Zealand fans.

* TV-ratings in Australia have been huge. Absolutely fantastic and across the board as well, not only Kangaroo matches have rated highly. Not too familiar with ratings elsewhere, but what I have seen U.K. ratings have been dissapointing. Of course with the time zone difference it's virtually impossible to pick up any casual viewers.

* The footy itself has been pretty decent. Really enjoyed France vs Lebanon and the PNG matches were great simply because of the crowd. A few too many blowouts but not a disastrous amount. It is quite hard thigh to switch to watching league after primarily watching union so many years. League can feel really repetitive after a while with the constant structured 5 tackles and then kick routine. Would love to see more teams trying to play a bit more with the ball before the last tackle.

* Not a fan of the eligibility rules. No problem with the heritage players but the ability to switch back and forth between national teams makes a bit of a mockery of the international game. Way too lax.


All in all, I'm enjoying it. Not sure this RLWC is a big step forward for League though.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby AXLstockholm » Sat, 25 Nov 2017, 00:47

I don't think league dominating in the Pacific Islands (on paper at least) will keep World Rugby up all night. It is fantastic that 16 NRL clubs (and their reserve grades) provide far more significant opportunities for a young promising Pacific Islander to play professional sport.

However, in my humble opinion Pacific Islanders are not brought up to dislike/hate league or Union. They love both codes and will support their national team whether it's league or Union. Likewise, it's very easy for these young Pacific Islander players to switch between the codes. There are many players in the NRL and NRC who have played both codes growing up.

If Australian or New Zealand Rugby provide a Fijian/Tonga/Samoan club or increase the number of spots for Pacific Islanders (without capping them) in preexisting clubs then I imagine many in league would seriously considering switching.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Nov 2017, 07:32

Yeah, Pacific Island nations like both codes more or less equally. In terms of the semi-final today. England almost managed to blow a 20-0 lead in the last 10 mins. Knock on in the last tackle prevent Tonga from winning. Final score 20-18. Things I've noticed about RL from watching it over the last few weeks.

• An energetic crowd makes the game more watchable. If there's a lull the sport is kinda boring.
• Lack of contest for possession robs the game of creativity. Playing safe a structured wins you matches as Australia has proven.
• NZ seem to been affected the most by the eligibility issues.
• The teams with mostly Australians and New Zealanders have been the most competitive.
• Tournament is going to come up well short of the 16,000 crowd average from 2008 and 2013. The best the average can get is around 12,950.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Thomas » Sat, 25 Nov 2017, 12:08

What are people’s views on the last try?? For me such a crucial time should have been referred to the video referee.

I thought at full speed it was an England were done.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 25 Nov 2017, 13:19

I was fine with it. Ball carrier has a responsibility to hold possession. A strip has to be a deliberate act to wrestle possession from the ball carrier. English player was going for the tackle not the ball. Correct ruling IMO. Can’t blame the referee for not going to the TMO, my understanding is once he makes the on field call he can’t send it to the TMO for referral. Besides, the better team won. England dominated for 74 mins, it was only the last 6 they nearly screwed up. Tonga really didn’t pose much of a threat for most of the match.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby eal22 » Sat, 25 Nov 2017, 16:34

Phenomenal semi and that atmosphere was out of this world. If England can play 80 mins they have a small chance of knocking-off Australia. Australia's complete dominance may come to an end soon as they have benefited greatly from their 1, 7, 9 spine being Billy Slater, Cooper Cronk, and Cameron Smith who all play for Melbourne. I doubt they will soon have another spine all come from the same club.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 00:58

eal22 wrote:Phenomenal semi and that atmosphere was out of this world. If England can play 80 mins they have a small chance of knocking-off Australia. Australia's complete dominance may come to an end soon as they have benefited greatly from their 1, 7, 9 spine being Billy Slater, Cooper Cronk, and Cameron Smith who all play for Melbourne. I doubt they will soon have another spine all come from the same club.


I've watched a fair few of the games and by far the most entertaining of the lot were the games involving Tonga. Thanks largely to their supporters creating a level of interest and intensity at the games. Something that was missing from pretty much every other game. The only game they didn't interest me was the one against Scotland in Cairns. But again more to do with the crowd than anything else. Four thousand odd Qlders vs 30k Tongans really don't compare well in the atmosphere department.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 01:00

thatrugbyguy wrote:I was fine with it. Ball carrier has a responsibility to hold possession. A strip has to be a deliberate act to wrestle possession from the ball carrier. English player was going for the tackle not the ball. Correct ruling IMO. Can’t blame the referee for not going to the TMO, my understanding is once he makes the on field call he can’t send it to the TMO for referral. Besides, the better team won. England dominated for 74 mins, it was only the last 6 they nearly screwed up. Tonga really didn’t pose much of a threat for most of the match.


Yeah, I didn't get why they were suggesting that it should have been referred upstairs. Yes, the English defenders made contact with the ball but it wasn't in an attempt to strip it. The knock on was a result of a loose carry by Fifita. In 100 other tackles in the game the opposition player would put more pressure on the ball in the tackle than the English bloke did in that contact. Fifita fucked up. Simple as that. It was a fair call. The ref got it right.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 17:51

Plans to bring a pro RL league to the US before 2025 RLWC.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... zsrrq.html

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby jonny24 » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 19:47

Well, go ahead and try I suppose. The fact that the hugely more popular version hasn't worked yet should give them a bit of a clue.
Norfolk Harvesters RFC 10-0-0 NRU "B" Division Champions

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 21:24

4N wrote:Plans to bring a pro RL league to the US before 2025 RLWC.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... zsrrq.html


It's just a rehashing of an article from last year. Seen all this talk before. Same bloke tried to do this with Rugby but failed. His model was just asking far too much far too soon. Something like $150-200m USD over 5 years. Which is a lot considering it's an unproven product with little to no exposure nationally in the US. From what I can tell he's essentially just re-packaged it for League. So I'm quite dubious as to whether we'll ever see it.

This is all reliant on the USA being confirmed to host the 2025 RLWC as well. Contrary to popular assumption on that matter among League fans, that hasn't occured yet. It's been given in provisional approval. Which means very little for a tournament that often waivers in importance. In fact, even though the article mentions that it has proven successful from a broadcast perspective. Which it has in Australia. Well, more successful than the 2008 event which was held here. It hasn't been a great one in terms of attendance (down roughly 5k per game average from 2013) and it has had its profit margin downgraded from $12m AUD to $7m AUD which is around 40% less than in 2013. There's even suggestion that if the final doesn't pick up in terms of ticket sales that the figure could be even less.

So taking into account the huge level of risk it would ensue to hold the RLWC in the US in 2025 particularly if the 2021 event in England doesn't do so well (and the game is struggling in the UK. Participation is down by more than a third over the last decade and each year seems to bring new reecord low attendance and TV figures) then these grand plans could be scuppered pretty quickly.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 21:56

Rugby League once again looking for a shortcut to make a name for itself. Instead of doing the decades of development they want to get a pro league up in the US as quick as possible. And frankly, I sick of the number of rules being used as the reason why people will just latch onto the game in America. Their brand of football is 10 times as complex as rugby and Americans love it. Moore is selling a pipe dream.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby DragonMike » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 22:01

RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:I guess the real fake teams are Ireland, Scotland and Italy, right? Wales has League, USA is full of local club players.


All the teams apart from Oz, Kiwis, England, PNG and apparently France are fake.
Germany (!) a country with 4 rugby league teams (who all play rugby union in the other time) has beaten the Welsh national team with just local players.
Italy and the USA had literally no Italian born and bred players at the last RLWC, all Ozzies.

Went to the last RLWC, great fun, but nothing serious sportswise (apart from games between the Kangaroos, the Kiwis and England).
While the Lebanese story is a really nice and interesting read, it is actually a catastrophy from a world cup point of view. Are there any players actually FROM Lebanon? Doesn't read like it.


They didn't beat wales, they beat wales amateur. Basically the equivalent of england counties or something, but even lower.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Mon, 27 Nov 2017, 16:10

The New York City rugby league franchise aiming to enter the Super League will target Jarryd Hayne and the best players in the world and boast A$52 million in funding over the initial three years of its existence.

Bid founder Ricky Wilby is a Yorkshire-based entrepreneur who has been involved in rugby league all his life. He has spent the past 12 years with the Catalans Dragons in media, sponsorship and logistics.

"The plan is for New York to come in to the competition in 2019 and we put our bid application into the Rugby Football League two and a half months ago showing our finances, potential stadiums and hotels for opposition teams to stay in," Wilby told NRL.com.

"We have also shown them proof of funds and agreements in principle for sponsorship deals to cover the cost of flights and hotels for opposition teams.

"The only cost for the opposition teams will be getting from their home base to the airport. We will foot every other cost."

The bid team will ramp up its quest in the new year with plans for a delegation of RFL officials to visit New York to meet sponsors and examine facilities.

"We'd like to get a 'yes' 12 months out from when we intend to kick off our first game in 2019," Wilby said.

"We'd like to come into the Championship or Super League but there is a lot to do in terms of the League's structure.

"We also appreciate that there has been a precedent set with Toronto and Toulouse in the last couple of years and they have had to start at the bottom and work their way up.

"New York brings to the table star quality, a lot of commercial activity and is going to generate a lot of local interest in the UK and global interest in terms of America and Australia."

The start-up costs will be significant costs but Wilby said the bid team's investors would "put in 10 million pounds per year over the first three years", which equates to A$52. 5 million.

"One London-based investor is a property magnate with 20 properties in and around Mayfair and Kensington. There is another investor based in New York, also in property development," Wilby said.

The new franchise is looking at three stadiums but the preferred choice is Red Bull Arena in New Jersey, home of the New York Red Bulls.

New York intend to have five American players in their squad of 30 and Wilby has already been overwhelmed with interest.

"NRL stars and other players and their agents have approached me, as have coaches," he said.

"In terms of the players and their agents I have given them all the same response, which is that it is all very well for me to play 'fantasy football' and say that I'd like this player and that player, but I am not the coach.

"It is the coaches [that] will be appointed first and then we will go out with our shopping list, but Jarryd Hayne would be a perfect fit in terms of his already having gone to the United States and tried something new [in the NFL with San Francisco]".

Wilby said the bid team aimed to speak to Hayne in "the next three or six months".

"We'll also look to attract players who've been in a great culture at a club like Melbourne and involved in a team outside of rugby league heartland," he said.

"We want to sign the best players in the world with the right culture because we want to win competitions.

"We have that responsibility to ourselves, the competition and supporters."

Wilby met Ipswich Jets coaches Ben and Shane Walker last week on the Gold Coast and said they were in the mix to coach New York.

"They are innovators and have the ability to coach and develop players," he said.

"Players go to Ipswich, leave better players and go on to become NRL or Super League players.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 27 Nov 2017, 21:09

4N wrote:
The New York City rugby league franchise aiming to enter the Super League will target Jarryd Hayne and the best players in the world and boast A$52 million in funding over the initial three years of its existence.

Bid founder Ricky Wilby is a Yorkshire-based entrepreneur who has been involved in rugby league all his life. He has spent the past 12 years with the Catalans Dragons in media, sponsorship and logistics.

"The plan is for New York to come in to the competition in 2019 and we put our bid application into the Rugby Football League two and a half months ago showing our finances, potential stadiums and hotels for opposition teams to stay in," Wilby told NRL.com.

"We have also shown them proof of funds and agreements in principle for sponsorship deals to cover the cost of flights and hotels for opposition teams.

"The only cost for the opposition teams will be getting from their home base to the airport. We will foot every other cost."

The bid team will ramp up its quest in the new year with plans for a delegation of RFL officials to visit New York to meet sponsors and examine facilities.

"We'd like to get a 'yes' 12 months out from when we intend to kick off our first game in 2019," Wilby said.

"We'd like to come into the Championship or Super League but there is a lot to do in terms of the League's structure.

"We also appreciate that there has been a precedent set with Toronto and Toulouse in the last couple of years and they have had to start at the bottom and work their way up.

"New York brings to the table star quality, a lot of commercial activity and is going to generate a lot of local interest in the UK and global interest in terms of America and Australia."

The start-up costs will be significant costs but Wilby said the bid team's investors would "put in 10 million pounds per year over the first three years", which equates to A$52. 5 million.

"One London-based investor is a property magnate with 20 properties in and around Mayfair and Kensington. There is another investor based in New York, also in property development," Wilby said.

The new franchise is looking at three stadiums but the preferred choice is Red Bull Arena in New Jersey, home of the New York Red Bulls.

New York intend to have five American players in their squad of 30 and Wilby has already been overwhelmed with interest.

"NRL stars and other players and their agents have approached me, as have coaches," he said.

"In terms of the players and their agents I have given them all the same response, which is that it is all very well for me to play 'fantasy football' and say that I'd like this player and that player, but I am not the coach.

"It is the coaches [that] will be appointed first and then we will go out with our shopping list, but Jarryd Hayne would be a perfect fit in terms of his already having gone to the United States and tried something new [in the NFL with San Francisco]".

Wilby said the bid team aimed to speak to Hayne in "the next three or six months".

"We'll also look to attract players who've been in a great culture at a club like Melbourne and involved in a team outside of rugby league heartland," he said.

"We want to sign the best players in the world with the right culture because we want to win competitions.

"We have that responsibility to ourselves, the competition and supporters."

Wilby met Ipswich Jets coaches Ben and Shane Walker last week on the Gold Coast and said they were in the mix to coach New York.

"They are innovators and have the ability to coach and develop players," he said.

"Players go to Ipswich, leave better players and go on to become NRL or Super League players.


Believe it or not $52m AUD isn't a lot of money when you're running a trans-national sporting organisation. Just ask SR teams. I find it kind of amazing that there is this push in SL considering they still don't have a viable team in London or any major English city. Also, surely with these people willing to invest such sums wouldn't something based more in the US be better rather than having the traverse the Atlantic a number of times a year and likely covering the oppositions costs.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps New York vs Castleford will be attractive to New York fans.

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Re: Rugby League World Cup 2017

Postby 4N » Mon, 27 Nov 2017, 21:20

I'm pretty sure this bid has considerable cash behind it. Time will tell. I think the eventual intent is to break off larger markets into one division and 'heartland' teams into another. But obviously this depends on things like the Wolfpack and NYC making it at the highest level. And it sounds like there's a rival group trying to get off the ground in the US. Interesting times. I have been following RU and to a lesser extent RL for about 20 years now, I feel RL is in as strong a position to expand as I have ever seen it.

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