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Georgia vs Romania discussion

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 21:49

amz wrote:
iul wrote:It's not useless at all. Romania shouldn't pick foreigners in the national team to hide its deficiencies in producing talent.


everybody does that.


Yes, it is not like: Oh Romania is bad because they pick Samoans and Tongans. There are other teams faaaaar worse. I think it‘s in some part frustration after the loss for Georgians to find excuses and blame the other team or the ref or whoever. And some of it is the part where we think our progress is based on a more stable ground of good youth work while your competitiveness is partly based on the ability to attract foreign talent because of your professional league. I think when it get‘s frustrating for Georgians when people put us together because we have the feeling we are (far) ahead of you not just based on results but underlying youth development structures and player infrastructure and results. This might seem unfair to Romanians because they point to obviously strong results they had against T1 teams before and also against strong T2 teams now. But I argue that these are hollow wins based on a fragile system of importer players and older players. But there is no discussion that Romania has regained strength and are rising. The argument is just if the underlying of their success is fragile or not and as stable as the huge efforts in youth rugby Georgia is putting in.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:19

You put too much emphasis on age grades. The conveyance to seniors is also very important. There are tons of nations with good age grades teams who didn't converted their success to senior level or national team. Even if it is not reflected in age grades teams yet, there are investments in youngsters and infrastructure and here I am not talking about FRR stadium but the constant support for various rugby centers around the country who received funding and support, who set up classes of rugby at local schools etc. You must have noticed how many players of 20-22 yo made their debut to Oaks, these guys didn't come from nowhere and the situation is improving, there are many more very young players who play SL or second division before 20 than we used to have some years ago. There is a hiatus of players at some point because yes, there is a gap but this is about to be closed without too much fuss concerning squad depth. Playing on the same level with Tonga missing so many key players isn't easy for any T2 side.

Also when you say the rising is fragile you seem to ignore the effect of a good national team to lower structures. Lelos raise having a good first XV which attracted athletes and funding and so they drew the entire structure after them. Prospects of making a living abroad playing rugby also helped a lot. This isn't working only from base to top, although the base is important and I dare to say one thing we miss both as rugby countries is the complexity of grassroots rugby / club rugby established nations have which is the base of supporters who send kids to rugby creating a wider base of selection,people who go to rugby every week regardless the level. This is the sector where, despite having spectators for one important test match, we will struggle long time from now.

Georgian age grades team are obviously a success but with all that bear in mind you that despite the investment you've made which seems to be among the best in T2, you are yet to reach the best position a Romanian age grade team had. And even with good age grades team, there is a need for more professional environment to develop players, which was also noticed by Haig.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:37

I think your first Point is fair. Good age grade Teams doesn't transform automaticly in good senior Teams. Our Clubs are weak, our grassroot is weak and as soon as our age grade Players leave the U20 and go to Clubs in Georgia they get worse. The only Players who Keep on developing are the Players going to France or UK or Ireland. Even the Players who went to Russia or French 3rd league are better than Players that Play their whole Career in Georgia. This is a huge Problem. We lack professional structures and Need a Club playing in a professional league, I think Haig understands that. I wonder why we don't make a Georgian-Romanian-Russian league? With 3 Teams from each Country and conference System?

I think you compare apples and oranges when you Point to wins by Romania from years ago. The professional structures today have created a big gap between T1 und T2 Teams. Playing Argentina and winning today means a lot more than winning against Argentina 15 or 10 years ago.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:44

Professional structures don't influence much age grades teams. Many senior clubs lack good academies and aren't too concerned about it.

About the joint league, I don't see any way to play in Siberia. A trans Black Sea may work but none of us have the financial means to enact such competition; If a sugga daddy will appear, to make it strong enough you can only invite Romanian and Georgian clubs/franchises. Plus we lack enough economic ties to have a foundation to work on for development of such league.

LE: one friend is telling me Blue Air will launch a regular flight to Tbilisi next year which I think it is great, would simplify the idea of a joint competition. I wasn't aware about this until now.

http://www.digi24.ro/stiri/economie/tra ... sti-836820

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 11:36

A black sea league could be really interesting. Maybe the Russians manage to put out a Team from Sotchi? I mean they managed to build a a Million Sports venues in Sotchi, that shouldn't be a Problem for them.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 15:20

Yea Georgia Russia Romania and Heidelberg club.

Will be much more productive and interesting. Every country will benefit from it.

Heidelberg will not be able to put 100+ points like they do in German championship.

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