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Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 21:49

amz wrote:
iul wrote:It's not useless at all. Romania shouldn't pick foreigners in the national team to hide its deficiencies in producing talent.


everybody does that.


Yes, it is not like: Oh Romania is bad because they pick Samoans and Tongans. There are other teams faaaaar worse. I think it‘s in some part frustration after the loss for Georgians to find excuses and blame the other team or the ref or whoever. And some of it is the part where we think our progress is based on a more stable ground of good youth work while your competitiveness is partly based on the ability to attract foreign talent because of your professional league. I think when it get‘s frustrating for Georgians when people put us together because we have the feeling we are (far) ahead of you not just based on results but underlying youth development structures and player infrastructure and results. This might seem unfair to Romanians because they point to obviously strong results they had against T1 teams before and also against strong T2 teams now. But I argue that these are hollow wins based on a fragile system of importer players and older players. But there is no discussion that Romania has regained strength and are rising. The argument is just if the underlying of their success is fragile or not and as stable as the huge efforts in youth rugby Georgia is putting in.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:19

You put too much emphasis on age grades. The conveyance to seniors is also very important. There are tons of nations with good age grades teams who didn't converted their success to senior level or national team. Even if it is not reflected in age grades teams yet, there are investments in youngsters and infrastructure and here I am not talking about FRR stadium but the constant support for various rugby centers around the country who received funding and support, who set up classes of rugby at local schools etc. You must have noticed how many players of 20-22 yo made their debut to Oaks, these guys didn't come from nowhere and the situation is improving, there are many more very young players who play SL or second division before 20 than we used to have some years ago. There is a hiatus of players at some point because yes, there is a gap but this is about to be closed without too much fuss concerning squad depth. Playing on the same level with Tonga missing so many key players isn't easy for any T2 side.

Also when you say the rising is fragile you seem to ignore the effect of a good national team to lower structures. Lelos raise having a good first XV which attracted athletes and funding and so they drew the entire structure after them. Prospects of making a living abroad playing rugby also helped a lot. This isn't working only from base to top, although the base is important and I dare to say one thing we miss both as rugby countries is the complexity of grassroots rugby / club rugby established nations have which is the base of supporters who send kids to rugby creating a wider base of selection,people who go to rugby every week regardless the level. This is the sector where, despite having spectators for one important test match, we will struggle long time from now.

Georgian age grades team are obviously a success but with all that bear in mind you that despite the investment you've made which seems to be among the best in T2, you are yet to reach the best position a Romanian age grade team had. And even with good age grades team, there is a need for more professional environment to develop players, which was also noticed by Haig.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:37

I think your first Point is fair. Good age grade Teams doesn't transform automaticly in good senior Teams. Our Clubs are weak, our grassroot is weak and as soon as our age grade Players leave the U20 and go to Clubs in Georgia they get worse. The only Players who Keep on developing are the Players going to France or UK or Ireland. Even the Players who went to Russia or French 3rd league are better than Players that Play their whole Career in Georgia. This is a huge Problem. We lack professional structures and Need a Club playing in a professional league, I think Haig understands that. I wonder why we don't make a Georgian-Romanian-Russian league? With 3 Teams from each Country and conference System?

I think you compare apples and oranges when you Point to wins by Romania from years ago. The professional structures today have created a big gap between T1 und T2 Teams. Playing Argentina and winning today means a lot more than winning against Argentina 15 or 10 years ago.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 10:44

Professional structures don't influence much age grades teams. Many senior clubs lack good academies and aren't too concerned about it.

About the joint league, I don't see any way to play in Siberia. A trans Black Sea may work but none of us have the financial means to enact such competition; If a sugga daddy will appear, to make it strong enough you can only invite Romanian and Georgian clubs/franchises. Plus we lack enough economic ties to have a foundation to work on for development of such league.

LE: one friend is telling me Blue Air will launch a regular flight to Tbilisi next year which I think it is great, would simplify the idea of a joint competition. I wasn't aware about this until now.

http://www.digi24.ro/stiri/economie/tra ... sti-836820

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 11:36

A black sea league could be really interesting. Maybe the Russians manage to put out a Team from Sotchi? I mean they managed to build a a Million Sports venues in Sotchi, that shouldn't be a Problem for them.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Thu, 30 Nov 2017, 15:20

Yea Georgia Russia Romania and Heidelberg club.

Will be much more productive and interesting. Every country will benefit from it.

Heidelberg will not be able to put 100+ points like they do in German championship.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby fullbackace » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 20:18

amz wrote:
STMKY wrote:When rugby officials are asked to tv or radio, so they explain the difference. They always says "rugby is an English game". A curtain. Not only that in Russia those who engage in American football in the eyes of an ordinary citizen are traitors and liberals (anti-Putin). They are told that rugby is an English game, not an American one... Americans and Englishmens are Anglo-Saxons. Therefore, there is no difference. Got the essence? It's about like in US to advertise some kind of sport and say that it was invented in Iran or North Korea.


So the problem is your Rugby Union officials don't lie?

Rugby is a global sport invented in England. Lelo was known to the world when...90s? Indians, Aborigens can also claim they have some sort of game similar to rugby yet what we all played started in England.

Show me a Georgian who claims Rugby comes from Lelo lmao...

Al Lelo does is showcase that the concept of Rugby(pushing and shoving like a maul/running with an oval ball) is not a foreign concept for Georgians.
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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 20:51

Rugby is a global sport invented in England. Lelo was known to the world when...90s? Indians, Aborigens can also claim they have some sort of game similar to rugby yet what we all played started in England.


Another trolling.

Who said Lelo had connections to rugby invention? Except this user.

Stop trolling mate

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby GeoRugby » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 21:26

I like how amz subtly connected Georgians to aborigenes and Indians. Guy is truly shamelessly transparent.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 07:44

I take these two replies like clumsy attempts to spark Antim brawl :lol:

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:
Rugby is a global sport invented in England. Lelo was known to the world when...90s? Indians, Aborigens can also claim they have some sort of game similar to rugby yet what we all played started in England.


Another trolling.

Who said Lelo had connections to rugby invention? Except this user.

Stop trolling mate


Well, FD claimed here that folk football (as lelo burti) of various sorts (including Indian and Aboriginal) may be then root of rugby and not Webb Ellis.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=582&p=53283&hilit=webb%20ellis#p53283

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Did that happen at all?

All the evidence shows that
the whole episode was invented
by an old fart TOO LATELY to prove that rugby was
white-collar sport and did not belong to workers

Around 1870s and 1880s there already have been written
two separate rugby GOSPELS from people who had attended
rugby school and neither of them even mentioned
anything remotedly similar to *pick up and run with*
as this was the accepted practice in FOLK football
from the times immemorial, in too many countries


With every occasion Georgians (including Union) underline that there is a similar game with rugby in Georgia from thousands years, know as Lelo Burti. The connection of course is not direct but hints that you played rugby before even be invented in its modern form. Most articles about Lelo Burti, whether they are written by Georgians or foreigners underline this similarity and nobody bothered to denied it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelo_burti

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/ar ... d=11522445
1 - The nickname Lelos comes from lelo burti, a traditional Georgian sport similar to rugby which goes back to pagan times.


And you can find tons of articles such as this on internet.

Heck, even the nickname of national team is Lelos!

In fact, your Union quite like to mention this tradition and subtly tries to link it with modern rugby which for me is fine:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73he3DC ... e=youtu.be

I think it's a very nice folk tradition and nothing bad about it, au contraire

GeoRugby wrote:I like how amz subtly connected Georgians to aborigenes and Indians. Guy is truly shamelessly transparent.


It wasn't me who connected Indian and Aboriginal folk football but Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lelo_burti

I mentioned it to show the extreme cases of folk ball games from all corners of the world and how pointless is to have a dispute over the origins of modern codes of various sports compared with folk ancestors. If you take it as an insult I am afraid you are very wrong mate.

Anyway, what would be the issue, are you racist?
Last edited by amz on Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 08:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 09:06

Yes lelo has similarities with Rugby but nobody ever said that lelo is predecessor of the game.

But yes we used this similarities to popularize rugby. we call try - Lelo. GRU "Rugby is our game" so people fellm in love with this sport.

PS. this is Russian rugby thread and we are going offtopic!

glad to disscuss it in correct thread.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby GeoRugby » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 10:38

Anyway, what would be the issue, are you racist?

No. I am not. Are you a blowhard?

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby amz » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 10:58

GeoRugby wrote:
Anyway, what would be the issue, are you racist?

No. I am not. Are you a blowhard?


So this is the part when you lack arguments and start attacking the person.

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Yes lelo has similarities with Rugby but nobody ever said that lelo is predecessor of the game.

But yes we used this similarities to popularize rugby. we call try - Lelo. GRU "Rugby is our game" so people fellm in love with this sport.

PS. this is Russian rugby thread and we are going offtopic!

glad to disscuss it in correct thread.


Give us the Antim brawl thread!! :thumbup:

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:07

Its that time of the year again! Antim Brawl :D

As I have just three days left to proclaim Germany as the one and only Rugby Europe Champion beaters (and so probably for the next 10-30 years)- if you Georgians want a hint or two how to beat Romania, you are very welcome :geek:
Last edited by RugbyLiebe on Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:27, edited 1 time in total.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:10

:lol:

Antim Brawl is like the RWC Final of this forum. I'll take a beer to watch :P
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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:22

Oo, i cant wait for that match...

Not so hard to predict. 55,000 Georgian supporters and REC + Antim Cup...

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby GeoRugby » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:33

So this is the part when you lack arguments and start attacking the person.


It's the part where you asked a question and I asked you one in return.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:39

Popcorn time.

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Oo, i cant wait for that match...

Not so hard to predict. 55,000 Georgian supporters and REC + Antim Cup...


REC might be solved by the time that game comes. Well, that's what I wish...

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby amz » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 14:42

GeoRugby wrote:
So this is the part when you lack arguments and start attacking the person.


It's the part where you asked a question and I asked you one in return.


Cmon you can more, this is too boring for a brawl.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 15:07

One at a time. First: Ze Germans! It looks like German team will be accommodate in Dracula's castle.The host is eager to meet you.Romanian hospitality!

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 15:25

Bogdan_DC wrote:One at a time. First: Ze Germans! It looks like German team will be accommodate in Dracula's castle.The host is eager to meet you.Romanian hospitality!


I forgot one thing. We can not only tell the Georgians how to beat Romania. We can also tell Romania how to lose by 40+ points against Georgia :D

About Dracula's castle - no worries. This is old German land, build up by German settlers in the 13th century with a German speaking majority until 1945. Quite sure Dracula will welcome them with style :twisted:
Just today saw pics from a friend visiting Timisoara this week (not for rugby). What an intersting country. Hope I will go there (or anywhere else in Romania not that far in the future). Same goes for Georgia btw.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby amz » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 16:01

RugbyLiebe wrote:About Dracula's castle - no worries. This is old German land, build up by German settlers in the 13th century with a German speaking majority until 1945. Quite sure Dracula will welcome them with style :twisted:


Such as this? :twisted:

The conflict with Vlad Tepes is most notable for the brutality that Tepes displayed towards the heretofore favored Saxons. Tepes was a powerful voivode of Wallachia, the province which lies just south of Transylvania. He did not look kindly upon the Saxon merchants who refused to pay taxes to him despite repeated warnings. The man who today is best known as the original model for Bram Stoker’s “Dracula” exacted a terrible revenge. He attacked the city, destroying one of its suburbs while burning it to the ground. This was just a precursor to his ultimate revenge. Vlad had the prisoners he had captured, hauled up to Mt. Tampa which looms over the city. There within full sight of fortified Brasov, wooden stakes were driven through the Saxon prisoners. This was done in the cruelest manner possible. The unfortunate merchants and nobles would eventually die of impalement, but only after several days of suffering.

While this was occurring, Tepes enjoyed dinner as a forest of screaming, moaning, suffering prisoners suffered agonizing torture and an excruciatingly slow death. Incidents such as this were one of the main reasons Tepes became nicknamed Vlad the Impaler. Despite a streak of horrific sadism, today Vlad Tepes is a national hero in Romania. After all, he fought against the powerful nobility who kept the majority of the population impoverished. Furthermore, he held the Ottoman Turks at bay for much of his reign. His bloodthirsty acts of impalement caused even the Ottoman Turkish Sultan to retreat in horror. Tepes left his mark on history and specifically Brasov.


Source:
https://europebetweeneastandwest.wordpr ... in-brasov/

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby victorsra » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 16:16

We can tell Georgians how to lose by 50 points to Romania! Anyone interested?
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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 16:33

Fucking emerging nations, not respecting countries way more experienced in the art of getting spanked by both Romania and Georgia...

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion (Antim Brawl 2018)

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 16:37

amz wrote:
Such as this? :twisted:


Ahhhh, there is simply no hospitality in the world like Romanian hospitality :D

Glad Timisoara was never even part of Wallachia, so Dracula probably only came there to crouch before the Hungarians.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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