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Georgia vs Romania discussion

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Stef » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 18:20

@datodato A mature answer :thumbup:

It is very likely that Haig is fully aware of the changes taking place in France. He also wanted to play with a Didi 10 selection in the Continental Shield but Italiens refused. His recently remarks about joining either Pro14 or SuperRugby tend to confirm his concerns.

However, if your youngsters are able to show their value in Pro D2 or Top14, you will have no problems on the long term with the JIFF restrictions.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 18:21

Are NOT you ALL fed by squabbling?

I'd rather post this great shot as 76th entry

Image

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 19:29

Now I realize why your nickname is datodato: you are 2guys!One posting fanatics slogans on repeat and one posting reality.Please keep the dark force away from the keyboard!!!

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby datodato » Thu, 23 Nov 2017, 22:30

Bogdan_DC wrote:Now I realize why your nickname is datodato: you are 2guys!One posting fanatics slogans on repeat and one posting reality.Please keep the dark force away from the keyboard!!!


It‘s @Stef fault, his post was just one I couldn‘t answer with more provocation. :)

At the end of the day it doesn‘t matter who wins as long as the greedy T1 cartel won‘t let us play in the 6N. And the matter of truth is that it will be more powerfull when both nations smash against their door. After we enter the holy building we can then talk about your imported player‘s (please don‘t do it!).

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Sables4EVA » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 08:15

If the Mods block this thread you should be glad we on't have a Zim vs Kenya thread. Some of the comments on that would make the Georgia - Romania thread seem very tame.

Rugby is a sport with heavy passion and heavy competitiveness.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 10:51

FLIDTA RISXVA wrote:Are NOT you ALL fed by squabbling?

I'd rather post this great shot as 76th entry

Image


Yes I am fed up too. Nice pic, thank you!

@datodato, I can understand somehow the issue with ethnicity but I think your view is very outdated. I was reading this article and you seem GRU is also interested in bringing some foreign prospects from Ukraine because there seem to be an issue with locks, I wonder what you'd say about this; would you think they'd devalue age grade teams shirt?
http://rugby.worldsport.ge/ge/page/6828 ... qomagebtan

OK so I'll explain you a little bit of my background to see why the ethnicity don't matter for me so much although is not totally negligible. Romania, as a country or by its constituent principalities like Moldova or Wallachia were in the past safe haven for various refugees starting from XV century with Hussites who settled in Moldova under the protection of Moldavian Voievode. More recently, various waves of refugees were accepted like Jews running from Russian Empire, various religious minorities such as Lipovans (Old Believers) or Scoptsy. Most of Lipovans settled in Danube Delta and most known one was
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipovans
Most of Lipovans settled in Danube Delta and most known one was Ivan Patzaichin who for example at Moscow Olympics from 1980 refused to talk in Russian to Soviet media although it was his native language.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Patzaichin

When Romania got Dobrogea, one of the first thing made was a mosque for Tartars and Turks who become Romanian citizens. Many of Tartars played rugby and I know a few and they wish me Merry Christmas and I am not so careful like them to wish them every time for Ramadan.

Big waves of Armenians from Ottoman Empire were accepted here following the genocide after WW1 and some settled building full quarters of cities or towns.
I grew up in a small Wallachian town were best friends of my grandpa who was a math professor and ex Army officer were an Armenian teacher and a Jewish teacher and best friend of my grandma was an Armenian lady, we use to blend to family parties with them, they made some awesome sweets. We hosted for like 30 years an Austrian lady from Chernivtsi who was a refugee after WW2 when Soviets occupied the city and she didn't want to go in Austria because he had no relatives there and was happy to stay with us despite the fact that we didn't had any family or ethnic/religious connection, she was just another of the person my family hosted from refugees who left Moldova and Northern Bucovina following WW2 after Soviet occupation. She stayed with us until the end of her days and I still remember her cookies and the fact she was trying to learn me German but she was too old and I was too young to learn or remember much and when I went to school I studied English and French so I don't remember much. Just to make it clear, I am not aware of a relative of my family of different ethnic than Romanian.

At school I had two Greek colleagues in my class, born in Romania in a village nearby my home town made of Communist Greeks who left Greece in 50s. Both choose to stay here after 1989 when they had the opportunity to move to Greece on few occasions, one of them even worked there for a while. My brother in law is Catholic Bulgarian from southern Bucharest area, a big community which settled here centuries ago running from Ottomans. History of Romania is full of such stories who are little known outside. Now, telling you some of my background, do you think ethnicity matters for me or the values we share such as desire to live in a stable country which can be a good home for its people, regardless of ethnicity? That's why I am probably so fiercely pro-US because I find it excellent for humanity how that melting pot transformed in a nation united among values rather than ethnicity or I share an admiration with Peter the Great, one of my favorite historical figures, for The Netherlands and the epic build up of a nation from very different provinces united by values, needs and principles and not by narrow-minded tribalism. Sure we had in our history our level of idiocy in some occasions regarding foreigners but overall Romania was a safe place for many troubled people.

Moving to another level, some of the best sportsmen aren't ethnically Romanians, for example from the team Steaua Bucharest, winner of football Champions Cup in 1986, Belodedici "The Deer" was Serb, Boloni was Hungarian and Helmuth Duckadam was of German origin, probably Banat Swabian. All of them made a career here and despite having the possibility to move in Serbia, Germany or Hungary eventually stayed here and are respected and decorated by Romanian state and played for national team. And I can go on for pages with such examples. Thing is many actual Romanian citizen come here to find safety , a place to have a family, a place to work and make a living.

For example Baia Mare have as kids coach Tongan international Sione Vaiomoʻunga who happened to get ill here for kidney failure. FRR even donated him the gate receipts from one match vs Tonga and facilitated the trip of his family here. Baia Mare club facilitated him medical treatment and give him a job to coach juniors from academy. How long do you think he could have survived in Tonga without financial means and with such a disease which needs weekly special medical care? He never played for Romania, he was already capped by Tonga so there was hardly an interested and these guys weren't transfered for this, it is solely a club business who sign and who not. Not put yourself in the skin of a Tongan who sign his first pro contract with this club and finds there one of his own kin who is treated like a Romanian and after 3 years you are asked if you're interested to play for Romania after you make a living here and Tonga didn't contacted you so far. Do you think he'll consider he will devalue the shirt? Anyway, if you'll meet the Oaks next year in Tbilisi, maybe some of your supporters will put this question :)

As about supporters and fans, we know "mercenaries" have a heart too and we are happy that they chose to play in our shirt, means that the re-building up of rugby sport in Romania have a foundation and a looks to have a future and it's not just another fully amateur place where you show up at one training session during week and Saturday for match.

You should be more worried about the ancestry stuff, as was pointed here on various occasions :)
Last edited by amz on Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:45, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby iul » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:02

having foreigners in our national team is bullshit. They should be kicked out.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:24

iul wrote:having foreigners in our national team is bullshit. They should be kicked out.

iul wrote:Degenerates = pedofiles, homosexuals, etc...


Now I just see better your picture: rasist&homophobic.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:29

Or this:
iul wrote:Turning your countries into muslim or negro colonies and tolerating degenerates isn't progress


Well I reckoned we have accidents sometimes :D

I wonder what French fans think about Benazzi or Dusatoir :)
Last edited by amz on Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby GeoRugby » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:30

Question for those Romanian fans who support having foreign born players in the Romania team. Is there a limit to how many you are willing to accept? For example if there is Romanian starting XV and the majority is made up of Foreign born players, is it still OK? Would you still consider it as Romanian as if there were all Romanian born?

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:37

GeoRugby wrote:Question for those Romanian fans who support having foreign born players in the Romania team. Is there a limit to how many you are willing to accept? For example if there is Romanian starting XV and the majority is made up of Foreign born players, is it still OK?


I don't know, didn't thought at that but I am also curious if an Ukrainian lock would devalue Lelos' shirt.

GeoRugby wrote: Would you still consider it as Romanian as if there were all Romanian born?


Nobody consider Johan Ven Heerden or Paula Kinikinilau Romanian born but Romanian players. I might not get entirely what do you mean.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:40

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/ ... p-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Romania is the worst, mercenaries etc etc etc. Please look at the facts again: 4 players. Figures show 22% of original squads were born overseas.
Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have. My bet is 4 to 6 max.And yes i am happy with that:).

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 13:47

Funnily enough, the new rule with 5 years residency still leave open the way of ancestry which was used mostly by the teams with biggest number of foreign born players. But yeah, Romania is the issue and 4N is concerned by the feelings of Romanian young players.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 14:55

Bogdan_DC wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/12/135-players-rugby-world-cup-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have.

Hold our beer.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 15:03

Armchair Fan wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/12/135-players-rugby-world-cup-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have.

Hold our beer.


:lol: :lol:

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby 4N » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 15:20

Armchair Fan wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/12/135-players-rugby-world-cup-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have.

Hold our beer.


:lol: :thumbup:

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Fri, 24 Nov 2017, 15:30

Armchair Fan wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/12/135-players-rugby-world-cup-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have.

Hold our beer.

Good one. :)

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby MikeN » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 21:20

What sort of a crowd would the AllBlacks pull if they were to play Georgia or Romania in a midweek game while they are on European tour? I say Allblacks because they played a midweek game vs a mickey mouse French team but it could be any of the big 4 southern teams.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby beber » Sun, 26 Nov 2017, 22:09

Bogdan_DC wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oct/12/135-players-rugby-world-cup-overseas

Number of foreign-born players at Rugby World Cup 2015 by team
13: Samoa; 12: Tonga; 11: Wales, Scotland and Japan; 10: France; 6: Australia, Italy, USA; 5: Canada, Ireland, New Zealand; 4: Romania; 3: England, Fiji; 2: Namibia; 1: Georgia, South Africa, Uruguay; 0: Argentina

Romania is the worst, mercenaries etc etc etc. Please look at the facts again: 4 players. Figures show 22% of original squads were born overseas.
Lets wait for 2019 and see how many we will have. My bet is 4 to 6 max.And yes i am happy with that:).


"foreign born" doesn't mean a lot about the foreigners in national team. For example, Merab Sharikadze is born in Moscow, from Georgian parents, lived in Georgia since he was 3 and started rugby in Georgia. He still a foreign-born player.
Same things with few France players like Sofiane Guitoune or Thierry Dusautoir or Fulgence Ouedraogo, or with few All Blacks

Also, most of Romanian foreign players made their debuts after RWC 2015.
In fact, 7 of the 25 players who made their debut since the post 2015 RWC are foreigners (Cobden, Faka'osilea, Fonovai, Onutu, Samoa, Shennan, and Umaga). That's 28% and I don't think many teams are in the same case.

Personally, I find difficult to definite a foreign player ? foreign-born? parent? grand parent? citizen? 36 months ? There are rules and Romania, as all others countries, respect the rules and profit from them, these guys are a capital gain for the Romania national team. They bring skills and a different vision of rugby and, playing Super Liga, they offer a tougher opposition for the young romanian players 0
I'm ok with that even if I think extented the rules to 5 years could be more fair and the grand parent rule could be deleted.

Also, a guy totally unknown like Fonovai, was revealed in Romania; that's a different case from Umaga or Kinikinilau who played ITM Cup before joining Super Liga.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 27 Nov 2017, 07:30

@ Beber Onutu brothers are the sons of former Romanian international Romeo Viorel Onutu who live in France now.
@ MikeN AllBlacks will attract a lot of people but is like Roger Federer coming to play a demonstrative game in Romania.There will be a lot of people having nothing to do with tennis, i think is the same for All Blacks.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 10:00


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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby beber » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:30



Very strong team, with all of these players eligible for Tonga, mostly thanks to a tongan parent or grandparent.
From this team, 3 players are born in Tonga (Fifita, Faletau and Fekitoa), Faletau arrived in Wales at 7, while Fifita and Fekitoa gone to NZ before their 18.
All others are born and raised in the country they play for, except Vunipola brothers (one is born in NZ, the other in Australia) who both came in UK as childs.

I also seen this type of selection with Zimbabwean players (Ewers, Ngwenya, Mtawarira ...) and we can do the same for a lot of countries (for example we can post a spanish team with Guilhem Guirado, Jordi Murphy and Sam Hidalgo-Clyne)
Last edited by beber on Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:32, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:32

It just show how relative and useless this discussion is.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby iul » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:36

It's not useless at all. Romania shouldn't pick foreigners in the national team to hide its deficiencies in producing talent.

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Re: Georgia vs Romania discussion

Postby amz » Wed, 29 Nov 2017, 13:57

iul wrote:It's not useless at all. Romania shouldn't pick foreigners in the national team to hide its deficiencies in producing talent.


everybody does that.

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