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Major League Rugby

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 11 Jan 2018, 00:25

Canadian_Rugger wrote:
New York has been conditionally accepted in to the RFL beginning in 2019. Toronto Wolfpack giving away tickets was a BS story that was started by League fans in the M62 corridor who are upset about the Wolfpack, Toulouse, Catalans, New York, etc. Taking away their chances to reach super league.

Supposedly a second Canadian team is on the way, rumint is Hamilton or Montreal which would give Toronto immediate rivalry.

The Wolfpack are supposedly going to be starting to do some youth work this coming summer.

Super League teams have taken direct control of the League from the RFL and are meeting with Toronto and Toulouse about expanding the League.

I anticipate by 2020, we will see a Super League with 16-20 teams

M62 teams
Leeds
Wigan
St Helens
Wakefield
Hull KR
Hull FC
Salford
Castleford
Huddersfield
Warrington
Widnes
Leigh

Outside M62
London
Toronto
New York
Toulouse
Catalans
2nd Canadian team
Avignon (want to join the English League like Toulouse)
2nd American team

The Super League has come out and said they want to compete directly with the NRL.


We'll see, the NRL basically runs the game and has all the best talent, and I don't know there they are going to get enough players to fill 4 or 5 new clubs. The recent world cup had all the top players from both NRL and Super League maxed out and there was still a massive gulf in class between teams. As someone who grew up in a Rugby League community people in the sport have always talked up the sport but have never actually bothered to properly invest into the grass roots of the game. It's always a case of RL is going to take over the world, only then for those involved to get shitty when that doesn't pan out. Maybe it works this time, I don't know, maybe Canada is a unique environment to make a top down approach work. All I know is the RL has tried to make shortcuts for as long as I've followed the sport without properly investing in the grass roots, in contrast to rugby which I think is fully aware it's got to slowly build things up. That's why we're not seeing MLR clubs playing in 20,000 soccer stadiums whilst the proposed NY RL club is planning to do just that. As much as that would be a great long term goal it makes the most sense now to start small in 5-6,000 capacity venues.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Counter Ruck Pod » Thu, 11 Jan 2018, 14:54

Episode 9 of Counter Ruck Pod featuring Matt Hawkins, GM of SD Legion out now on all podcast apps.

https://soundcloud.com/counterruck

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Suiram » Thu, 11 Jan 2018, 18:52

Buffalo wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:I was being cheeky. Now this would be a cool development!


I'm a patriotic asshole who's s big hockey fab. I'm easily triggered haha.

Ya it would be cool to get some more friendlies for the CRC teams to see how they measure up. The four regions jumping to MLR and the senior CRC dying would be the best choice for Canadian rugby if they can find the investors. The Arrows are pretty much the Blues under a new banner and are doing that already. And with Vancouver pretty much guaranteed it would be smart for the BC Bears to get some games in preparation it they aren't already. The Prairie WP and Atlantic Rock are probably a lot further away than the other two both financially, logistically and talent depth but I would still like to see them playing some friendlies until they can get it together and MLR is ready for them.


I didnt know it was originally Canadian, but that makes a lot of sense.

https://thehockeywriters.com/is-discrim ... tionality/

Always amazed by this chart. You Canadians are losing your grip on the league!

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 11 Jan 2018, 19:18

Buffalo wrote:
Ya it would be cool to get some more friendlies for the CRC teams to see how they measure up. The four regions jumping to MLR and the senior CRC dying would be the best choice for Canadian rugby if they can find the investors. The Arrows are pretty much the Blues under a new banner and are doing that already. And with Vancouver pretty much guaranteed it would be smart for the BC Bears to get some games in preparation it they aren't already. The Prairie WP and Atlantic Rock are probably a lot further away than the other two both financially, logistically and talent depth but I would still like to see them playing some friendlies until they can get it together and MLR is ready for them.
Although Rugby Canada and Rugby Ontario are very supportive of these projects, from what I understand, the BCRU are not.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 01:45

Pat Clifton reporting Mike Tolkin and Bruce McLane will be coaching RCNY: http://www.rugbytoday.com/clubs/vancouv ... ership-mlr

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 02:39

Why would BCRU be against it?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 03:28

I have no idea to be honest. There's a bit different of a response in Ontario.

Arrows announce Staff: https://ontarioarrowsrugby.com/2018/01/ ... 18-season/

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 04:03

BCRU sees itself, and wants thr rest if the country to see it as, the cream of Rugby in Canada if not North America. They want their club rugby to be the absolute pinnacle and honestly have a strong voice in Rugby Canada. Honestly they want Canada to keep trudging along using the same systems we had in the 80s.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 13:59

Any idea of potential nicknames for Vancouver and NY been mooted?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 15:23

ruckovercdn wrote:BCRU sees itself, and wants thr rest if the country to see it as, the cream of Rugby in Canada if not North America. They want their club rugby to be the absolute pinnacle and honestly have a strong voice in Rugby Canada. Honestly they want Canada to keep trudging along using the same systems we had in the 80s.


So they're basically that group of Old Boys that say they want to advance rugby but deep down they don't really want to because they're in a good position?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 17:14

thatrugbyguy wrote:Any idea of potential nicknames for Vancouver and NY been mooted?

we're doing a poll on the EOD twitter.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 17:35

TheStroBro wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Any idea of potential nicknames for Vancouver and NY been mooted?

we're doing a poll on the EOD twitter.


What is the twitter handle?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 12 Jan 2018, 17:42

rusty_lock wrote:
What is the twitter handle?

https://twitter.com/EarfulOfDirt/status ... 4696584192

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 01:51

ruckovercdn wrote:BCRU sees itself, and wants thr rest if the country to see it as, the cream of Rugby in Canada if not North America. They want their club rugby to be the absolute pinnacle and honestly have a strong voice in Rugby Canada. Honestly they want Canada to keep trudging along using the same systems we had in the 80s.


They should really get together with the Sydney Rugby Union. They have so much in common it's actually scary. A true match made in heaven.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 01:52

Is there a stream for the Cats v Ravens match? Houston up 17-10 at halftime apparently.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 02:04

Coloradoan wrote:
4N wrote:
Coloradoan wrote:
4N wrote:The talent pool for 12+ teams isn't there, and I'm pretty sure you guys know that. Some of this is fantasy. No one wants to watch beer gut props from club rugby and fifth choice Irish backs.


Aren't you all about the Toronto Wolfpack these days? Isn't the league equivalent of 5th choice Irish backs what they're all about?


That comparison seems like a stretch. They were third division last year so the talent pool is increasing as they get promoted. I know you don't really watch RL and find it "boring" like others on this thread, but players like Fuifui Moimoi and Ashton Sims (both forwards, granted) are well known. They have the money that they will have a top squad when they eventually reach Super League. Had they gone straight into SL they probably would already have done so, but the nature of proving that they belong alongside famous names like Wigan Warriors and St Helens is they have to show SL they are viable first. With crowds averaging 7k+ and widespread Toronto media coverage on their League 1 championship, they are off to a good start.


You're reaching here. On one hand you're castigating a potential 12+ team MLR for potentially having "beer gut props from club rugby and fifth choice Irish backs" while pumping a team that was full of these types. Whether or not the Wolfpack have a better squad in the future is mostly irrelevant. That you've pointed to a 38 year old Fuifui Moimoi and a 32 year old Ashton Sims as the best of the bunch only further reinforces that. You've been really eager to talk up the Wolfpack and talk down MLR. What's the deal with that?


I suspect it's all about growth and access to talent. Let's face it. The best domestic Rugby talent will likely look toward the MLR first and foremost when chasing the pro dream. Which means less for these prospective RL franchises. Watching the RLWC the Hawks were completely out of their depth when they actually relied on the local base. And international RL is a lot less competitive than international Rugby.

Rugby as a game and talent base is far more developed than League in North America. But with MLR in place and likely to grow with NY, Ontario and Vancouver essentially locked, Chicago and KC still stating their intent to enter in 2019. The level of competition for talent for these RL franchises will be very high and likely heavy slanted in Rugby's favour.

And as MLR grows that will only increase. Apparently there are groups in DC, Atlanta, NorCal and even some rumblings of Ohio actively engaging with the League at present. Some with multiple groups.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 03:36

Sabercats drop hold of the Ravens 23-26.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby 4N » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 03:37

Working Class Rugger wrote:I suspect it's all about growth and access to talent. Let's face it. The best domestic Rugby talent will likely look toward the MLR first and foremost when chasing the pro dream. Which means less for these prospective RL franchises. Watching the RLWC the Hawks were completely out of their depth when they actually relied on the local base. And international RL is a lot less competitive than international Rugby.

Rugby as a game and talent base is far more developed than League in North America. But with MLR in place and likely to grow with NY, Ontario and Vancouver essentially locked, Chicago and KC still stating their intent to enter in 2019. The level of competition for talent for these RL franchises will be very high and likely heavy slanted in Rugby's favour.

And as MLR grows that will only increase. Apparently there are groups in DC, Atlanta, NorCal and even some rumblings of Ohio actively engaging with the League at present. Some with multiple groups.


Domestic RL talent is not important immediately. I'm sure you are familiar with the makeup of the Wolfpack's roster. So the USA Hawks being a poor side made up of mostly subpar athletes currently is not relevant.

I look at someone like Quinn Ngawati - athletes want to play at a high standard. Super League, which is the eventual aim for any North American pro RL side, is a higher standard than MLR. Kind of a letdown in Houston tonight from what I saw (score and crowd). I really question if fan interest can be sustained in some of these markets. I hope you guys are being realistic with your expectations. If there are further expansion teams, pretty sure New Orleans and their high school stadium with little local talent will fold. But time will tell.

As far as Atlanta goes, crowds are always pretty disappointing for rugby, whether it's Life, USA South, USA Eagles or the women's 7s. I went to USA South vs Mexico a few years ago at the Life "stadium" and there were probably less than 200 people there. Like Houston and most other Sunbelt cities, it's spread out and people aren't going to drive 45 minutes to see what is realistically a minor league product, which MLR is currently, despite the optimistic name.

Columbus would probably get ok support initially, especially if their soccer team moves. But can it be sustained if the team isn't a winner like the PRO team were? The soccer team is looking to move for a reason.

Vancouver I think will do well. Good local talent, good local support. I have real questions about the whole Arrows setup though. Launching in a RWC year, vs the established Wolfpack, with maybe multiple home venues, could be a poor start for what should be a strong RU market.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 04:34

There were some factors in tonight's match. UBCOB is second on the table in the BC Premier League and brought their 1st Choice side. Saracens did not have a 1st Choice side available. Saracens are also bottom of the standings in the BC Premier League. I don't think you understand the US Market well. A participation base is important for the sport. Just because you call it professional, if no one knows what it is, how long will that sustain itself.

Today, was meant to be a huge kids night promotion. Didn't work out as it rained into the weekend and the temperature dropped, around 35F at kickoff. For Houston, that's cold. Then you add in all of the Club Rugby that has just started, so really what you had here was just the fans and not the player/consumer. Which is pretty good, over 2000 tickets sold. I'll try to get a final number for you negative nancy, but, if you just want to push League, this thread isn't for you. It's for people discussing MLR.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 05:42

So I guess the CDI isn't quite the rubbish league people like to make it out to be.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 06:49

Whos called it a garbage league? Its likely the best domestic rugby in North America, but i dont think its at the level of say National League 1.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Duke of Currie » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 07:35

This might be jumping the gun , but with the end of the Super Rugby contract in 2020 , would it be an advantage for the Jaguares to move from Super Rugby to the MLR ?
This could lead to the other South American nations being able to put in franchises into a professional league without being dependent on organic growth within their own respective countries.

As an outsider looking in , I am generally very excited about the potential of this league and am glad the US and Canada have resisted attempts to allow non-North American leagues to place franchises in US/Canada to try and steal market share and tv contracts.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 12:16

Duke of Currie wrote:This might be jumping the gun , but with the end of the Super Rugby contract in 2020 , would it be an advantage for the Jaguares to move from Super Rugby to the MLR ?
This could lead to the other South American nations being able to put in franchises into a professional league without being dependent on organic growth within their own respective countries.

As an outsider looking in , I am generally very excited about the potential of this league and am glad the US and Canada have resisted attempts to allow non-North American leagues to place franchises in US/Canada to try and steal market share and tv contracts.


That would be like Glasgow leaving the Pro12 to join the Scottish Premiership.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 14:42

Duke of Currie wrote:This might be jumping the gun , but with the end of the Super Rugby contract in 2020 , would it be an advantage for the Jaguares to move from Super Rugby to the MLR ?
This could lead to the other South American nations being able to put in franchises into a professional league without being dependent on organic growth within their own respective countries.

As an outsider looking in , I am generally very excited about the potential of this league and am glad the US and Canada have resisted attempts to allow non-North American leagues to place franchises in US/Canada to try and steal market share and tv contracts.


Well, Jaguares are still far better than any MLR side. Maybe that will change in 5 or so years but I doubt it. For South American rugby, it would be best for them to start their own "domestic" league, perhaps 2 teams from Argentina, 1 from Uruguay, 1 from Brazil and 1 from Chile. The level of this competition would essentially be club rugby but will pay players. In the short term, it would help develop the game professionally in SA and will give Argentina the chance to play some of their depth players. There is no indication of this happening though my dream would be for an Americas Champions Cup with the 2 different leagues.

There are talks to get Argentina XV involved in the Currie Cup and also create a Uruguayan/Brazilian team to compete in the Rugby Challenge. This would be a good sport and wouldn't tie down the countries to a major competition like Pro14 or Super Rugby. I read somewhere that the team would be a mix of Brazilians and Uruguayans but so far can only find info on Brazil.

Argentina: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/1 ... urrie-cup/
Brazil: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/0 ... urrie-cup/

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 14 Jan 2018, 15:55

Duke of Currie wrote:This might be jumping the gun , but with the end of the Super Rugby contract in 2020 , would it be an advantage for the Jaguares to move from Super Rugby to the MLR ?
This could lead to the other South American nations being able to put in franchises into a professional league without being dependent on organic growth within their own respective countries.

As an outsider looking in , I am generally very excited about the potential of this league and am glad the US and Canada have resisted attempts to allow non-North American leagues to place franchises in US/Canada to try and steal market share and tv contracts.


Yeah, there's a better chance of a team in Mexico city in 2020 than the Jaguares.

ETA: EP19 10PM EST 15 JAN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-uQc1ta1-0

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