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Major League Rugby

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby jonny24 » Wed, 25 Jul 2018, 22:48

Tobar wrote:All in favor of Torontario?


Torontario Arriows?
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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 00:07

Tobar wrote:I don’t think it’ll really make much of a difference either way, unless people from Toronto are REALLY against supporting a team called Ontario. All in favor of Torontario?


Ahh...a lateral thinker.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 02:41

jonny24 wrote:
Tobar wrote:All in favor of Torontario?


Torontario Arriows?


Since they are partnered with the Hurricanes I believe they should be called the Torontario Arrowcanes.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 21:49

Tobar wrote:
jonny24 wrote:
Tobar wrote:All in favor of Torontario?


Torontario Arriows?


Since they are partnered with the Hurricanes I believe they should be called the Torontario Arrowcanes.


Do we know what that partnership is going to mean. Will there players made available to them? Will there be Arrows players who get opportunity in the Hurricanes academy etc... ?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 00:22

Torontarriows?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 00:25

NaBUru38 wrote:Torontarriows?


Torrontarros

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 18:33


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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby sammo » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 19:48

TheStroBro wrote:http://www.rugbytoday.com/clubs/mlr-champs-sued-former-coach



Have to admit, find it difficult to see how he can win a case on having not been paid when he never had the right to work in the country.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 19:56

I'm unsure overall, I'd say his case is probably resting on the fact that they paid his wife. Easiest ways out were just paying the salary and wishing good luck, or not paying at all.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby therugbycoach » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 04:46

sammo wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:http://www.rugbytoday.com/clubs/mlr-champs-sued-former-coach



Have to admit, find it difficult to see how he can win a case on having not been paid when he never had the right to work in the country.


Unless they gave him the impression getting a work visa would be easy and he indeed coached the team during the time he was waiting for the visa which never came, I would assume he didnt plan on coaching the team for free for x months

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Figaro » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 06:56

Interview on the BBC with former England international Ben Foden, who has apparently signed for New York, says Ontario, NY and LA are all joining for the second season.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 08:56

therugbycoach wrote:
sammo wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:http://www.rugbytoday.com/clubs/mlr-champs-sued-former-coach



Have to admit, find it difficult to see how he can win a case on having not been paid when he never had the right to work in the country.


Unless they gave him the impression getting a work visa would be easy and he indeed coached the team during the time he was waiting for the visa which never came, I would assume he didnt plan on coaching the team for free for x months



He can't be paid to coach the team without a work visa though. If he got paid to coach the team without a visa doesn't that make him an illegal immigrant and the Seawolves an immigration offender too?

Seems like they might have led him on but unless they spectacular buggered up a straight forward application I think its "buyers beware" and he shouldn't have quit his job if he wasn't sure to get the visa/new job.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Suiram » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 14:06

the unfortunate reality for us visas is you can’t count your chickens before they hatch. Despite being a great coach he has never coached a professional team which means he failed the tick box exercise the INS uses. Same issue has come up with players too (including one for the Seawolves). I think it will always be an issue and mean overseas pros need to get sign well in advance of the season. As well, as standards rise and salaries increase it likely becomes an easier process (hiring more easily provable professionals).

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby therugbycoach » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 16:43

Suiram wrote:the unfortunate reality for us visas is you can’t count your chickens before they hatch. Despite being a great coach he has never coached a professional team which means he failed the tick box exercise the INS uses. Same issue has come up with players too (including one for the Seawolves). I think it will always be an issue and mean overseas pros need to get sign well in advance of the season. As well, as standards rise and salaries increase it likely becomes an easier process (hiring more easily provable professionals).



I doubt the Immigration people in USA have any idea about Rugby , and that a Amateur coach can be a better coach and more experienced that Professional one.
I know of people with high level World Rugby coaching certs that have never played or coached a senior competetive mens side...I have known Ex pro players even ex ABs who are terrible coaches , these are the sorts of coaches that tend to get pro contracts. usually dragged in as an assistant somewhere, then move on quite a lot , or steps in when head coach is sacked mid season. and is seen as a success as he kept staus quo with a pre picked team playing a certain style...usually they dont last when doing it for selves.

in USA immigration needs to take what club wants / says to start as I dont think a lot of the coaches were up to it this year and i guess they were given a visa

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 28 Jul 2018, 17:05

Should have just put on the visa application that he would be their safety inspector...pretty simple.

The reality is that if this is purely up to INS per se and it's Amateur Rugby Coach vs. Professional Rugby Coach the only coaches of professionals have been Hoadley and Hyardet.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 29 Jul 2018, 16:16

therugbycoach wrote:
Suiram wrote:the unfortunate reality for us visas is you can’t count your chickens before they hatch. Despite being a great coach he has never coached a professional team which means he failed the tick box exercise the INS uses. Same issue has come up with players too (including one for the Seawolves). I think it will always be an issue and mean overseas pros need to get sign well in advance of the season. As well, as standards rise and salaries increase it likely becomes an easier process (hiring more easily provable professionals).



I doubt the Immigration people in USA have any idea about Rugby , and that a Amateur coach can be a better coach and more experienced that Professional one.
I know of people with high level World Rugby coaching certs that have never played or coached a senior competetive mens side...I have known Ex pro players even ex ABs who are terrible coaches , these are the sorts of coaches that tend to get pro contracts. usually dragged in as an assistant somewhere, then move on quite a lot , or steps in when head coach is sacked mid season. and is seen as a success as he kept staus quo with a pre picked team playing a certain style...usually they dont last when doing it for selves.

in USA immigration needs to take what club wants / says to start as I dont think a lot of the coaches were up to it this year and i guess they were given a visa


I think the idea for giving work visas for coaches and players is that if they are not involved in a professional setup or for their national team then they should not be any better than someone who is already able to work in the US. Basically they need to show that the player/coach is clearly qualified to justify the visa (and taking away a job from an American).

It makes some sense but does not understand how sports work. Frankly they don’t care though and it’s not their job to care.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Sun, 29 Jul 2018, 22:45

Tobar wrote:
therugbycoach wrote:
Suiram wrote:the unfortunate reality for us visas is you can’t count your chickens before they hatch. Despite being a great coach he has never coached a professional team which means he failed the tick box exercise the INS uses. Same issue has come up with players too (including one for the Seawolves). I think it will always be an issue and mean overseas pros need to get sign well in advance of the season. As well, as standards rise and salaries increase it likely becomes an easier process (hiring more easily provable professionals).



I doubt the Immigration people in USA have any idea about Rugby , and that a Amateur coach can be a better coach and more experienced that Professional one.
I know of people with high level World Rugby coaching certs that have never played or coached a senior competetive mens side...I have known Ex pro players even ex ABs who are terrible coaches , these are the sorts of coaches that tend to get pro contracts. usually dragged in as an assistant somewhere, then move on quite a lot , or steps in when head coach is sacked mid season. and is seen as a success as he kept staus quo with a pre picked team playing a certain style...usually they dont last when doing it for selves.

in USA immigration needs to take what club wants / says to start as I dont think a lot of the coaches were up to it this year and i guess they were given a visa




I think the idea for giving work visas for coaches and players is that if they are not involved in a professional setup or for their national team then they should not be any better than someone who is already able to work in the US. Basically they need to show that the player/coach is clearly qualified to justify the visa (and taking away a job from an American).

It makes some sense but does not understand how sports work. Frankly they don’t care though and it’s not their job to care.


A coach or a player who is trying to come and play professionally in the US comes in under an O-1 visa. I'm really acutually surprised that he was unable to get it. The criteria is sufficiently vague that as long as he had appropriate recommendations from the leagues governing body I would think that INS would take that at face value and grant the visa.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 13:07

Paul Lasike is joining a London club, according to his Instagram

https://ig.me/1MaKAW5IiYwsKgF

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 14:35


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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 15:43

thatrugbyguy wrote:Does it matter the team is called?



Sure it does? It would be weird if you called them the Timmins Arrows but played out of Toronto. I prefer the Ontario Arrows as it includes all Ontario, and creates a great pathway and future for the youth.
Last edited by snapper37 on Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 15:50, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 15:48

rusty_lock wrote:
Tobar wrote:
therugbycoach wrote:
Suiram wrote:the unfortunate reality for us visas is you can’t count your chickens before they hatch. Despite being a great coach he has never coached a professional team which means he failed the tick box exercise the INS uses. Same issue has come up with players too (including one for the Seawolves). I think it will always be an issue and mean overseas pros need to get sign well in advance of the season. As well, as standards rise and salaries increase it likely becomes an easier process (hiring more easily provable professionals).



I doubt the Immigration people in USA have any idea about Rugby , and that a Amateur coach can be a better coach and more experienced that Professional one.
I know of people with high level World Rugby coaching certs that have never played or coached a senior competetive mens side...I have known Ex pro players even ex ABs who are terrible coaches , these are the sorts of coaches that tend to get pro contracts. usually dragged in as an assistant somewhere, then move on quite a lot , or steps in when head coach is sacked mid season. and is seen as a success as he kept staus quo with a pre picked team playing a certain style...usually they dont last when doing it for selves.

in USA immigration needs to take what club wants / says to start as I dont think a lot of the coaches were up to it this year and i guess they were given a visa




I think the idea for giving work visas for coaches and players is that if they are not involved in a professional setup or for their national team then they should not be any better than someone who is already able to work in the US. Basically they need to show that the player/coach is clearly qualified to justify the visa (and taking away a job from an American).

It makes some sense but does not understand how sports work. Frankly they don’t care though and it’s not their job to care.


A coach or a player who is trying to come and play professionally in the US comes in under an O-1 visa. I'm really acutually surprised that he was unable to get it. The criteria is sufficiently vague that as long as he had appropriate recommendations from the leagues governing body I would think that INS would take that at face value and grant the visa.



Wasn't Healy removed as head coach of Seattle because he couldn't get a Visa?

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 30 Jul 2018, 16:36

Yes, that’s who were talking about here. Healy is suing because he felt that he was promised to be able to work for Seattle and when it didn’t go through they should still pay him.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 31 Jul 2018, 15:39

Paul Lasike to Harlequins.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby YamahaKiwi » Sat, 04 Aug 2018, 07:23

rusty_lock wrote:
Tobar wrote:
jonny24 wrote:
Tobar wrote:All in favor of Torontario?


Torontario Arriows?


Since they are partnered with the Hurricanes I believe they should be called the Torontario Arrowcanes.


Do we know what that partnership is going to mean. Will there players made available to them? Will there be Arrows players who get opportunity in the Hurricanes academy etc... ?


I dunno. Talk to Avan Lee. I think he's the sole reason for this frankly bizarre tie-up. NZ and Eastern Canada have zilch close association with each other. As a Canes fan I'd be so much happier with a tie up with a Pacific Coast team where NZ traditionally has some interaction with. Once again, the Crusaders gotit right tieing up with Seattle. Canes should've gone for San Diego (I'm sure the Saffas there would've been quite happy to have a NZ partner), Houston (at least it would have the black n yellow theme), LA Coast, or my preference, get involved with, and help bring to reality, a Vancouver team.

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Re: Major League Rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 11 Aug 2018, 17:39

Tobar wrote:Yes, that’s who were talking about here. Healy is suing because he felt that he was promised to be able to work for Seattle and when it didn’t go through they should still pay him.



Should still pay him for his time. And then he should stay quiet as he may hamper his chances to coach a BC team if anybody is able to organize one.

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