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2027 RWC bids

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2027 RWC bids

Postby 4N » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 11:19


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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 13:02

I'm genuinely surprised by this. The women's WC will be good though, granted they actually play it in more than one location. By the time 2027 rolls around there should be new 30,000 seat venues in Townsville and Canberra, heard rumours of a new soccer stadium in Tasmania too. List will look something like this I imagine.

Sydney x 3 (New SFS, new Olympic Park, new Parramatta)
Brisbane
Melbourne (AAMI park or Docklands)
Perth
Adelaide
Gosford
Canberra
Townsville
Newcastle

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 19:39

Will be interesting to see who learns the lessons from France's win and goes hard for the T2 vote.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyPUBtbilisi » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 20:12

Or Ireland/Wales/Scotland.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 20:43

It is very likely to see South Africa bidding too, right?
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Thomas » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 21:06

The way I see it,any nation making a bid for 2027 must make a bid for women's make it mandatory. I am pleased the ARU has done it. I wonder how much influence the new chief Executive has had in this.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 21:08

thatrugbyguy wrote:I'm genuinely surprised by this. The women's WC will be good though, granted they actually play it in more than one location. By the time 2027 rolls around there should be new 30,000 seat venues in Townsville and Canberra, heard rumours of a new soccer stadium in Tasmania too. List will look something like this I imagine.

Sydney x 3 (New SFS, new Olympic Park, new Parramatta)
Brisbane
Melbourne (AAMI park or Docklands)
Perth
Adelaide
Gosford
Canberra
Townsville
Newcastle


I think the only ones in consideration will be your 30,000+ stadiums. So unless you're using Adelaide Oval (which would be a distinct possibility) you can strike Adelaide, Canberra (unless they build their new stadium before then) and Gosford from that list.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 21:36

Thomas wrote:The way I see it,any nation making a bid for 2027 must make a bid for women's make it mandatory. I am pleased the ARU has done it. I wonder how much influence the new chief Executive has had in this.


Disagree. The women's event is a separate thing, shouldn't be viewed as just a part of the men's bidding process. Like the U-20s running a successful Women's RWC can provide a great experience of the nuts and bolts of running a world cup and would be a big positive tick in the box. But shouldn't just be viewed as a loss leader for a men's RWC.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 13 Dec 2017, 21:51

The womens WC needs better venues, better attendances and a better schedule. Now it is even behind the Under20 Championship in every aspect. Maybe a Womens WC before the men's WC, as a FIFA Conferations Cup-like competition, a preparation/prelude for the RWC host nation would benefit the womens game. Of course they deserve a total separate tournament, but lets see the facts: it needs a push. And maybe the RWC "climate" would benefit it. With this, it would be interesting to test 2021 in France and 2025 in Australia/other winner of the 2027 bid.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 14:07

Working Class Rugger wrote:I think the only ones in consideration will be your 30,000+ stadiums. So unless you're using Adelaide Oval (which would be a distinct possibility) you can strike Adelaide, Canberra (unless they build their new stadium before then) and Gosford from that list.


I fully anticipate Adelaide Oval being used since it’s redevelopment. It’s a world class stadium now compared to what it was in 2003.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 14:10

victorsra wrote:The womens WC needs better venues, better attendances and a better schedule. Now it is even behind the Under20 Championship in every aspect. Maybe a Womens WC before the men's WC, as a FIFA Conferations Cup-like competition, a preparation/prelude for the RWC host nation would benefit the womens game. Of course they deserve a total separate tournament, but lets see the facts: it needs a push. And maybe the RWC "climate" would benefit it. With this, it would be interesting to test 2021 in France and 2025 in Australia/other winner of the 2027 bid.


Yes, the venue for the women’s World Cup have to improve. It makes the tournament look cheap playing at universities. I strongly suspect the new Western Sydney stadium will be the main venue, with Ballymore in Brisbane, Gosford and Canberra hopefully used.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 15:03

I would love for the US to be in the position to plan like this. Because I'm pretty sure that the bid for Australia could be delivered tomorrow for both the WRWC and and RWC. The bid cycle for the WRWC is short, so this is smart.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 18:31

sk 88 wrote:
Thomas wrote:The way I see it,any nation making a bid for 2027 must make a bid for women's make it mandatory. I am pleased the ARU has done it. I wonder how much influence the new chief Executive has had in this.


Disagree. The women's event is a separate thing, shouldn't be viewed as just a part of the men's bidding process. Like the U-20s running a successful Women's RWC can provide a great experience of the nuts and bolts of running a world cup and would be a big positive tick in the box. But shouldn't just be viewed as a loss leader for a men's RWC.


I am well aware that Women's WC is a separate entity and should remain as such but to give it some impetus and develop the sport it should be given better venues and greater exposure. it should be ahead of the U20. the recent meeting by WR on the Women's program should help this.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 19:35

That wasn't the bit I was arguing with.

You said it should be mandatory to host a women's RWC before a men's one. I disagree that making it into a part of the men's RWC bidding would be helpful, it would mean no one ever hosts it for its own sake and only because they want the main prize of the men's. That's not progress.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 20:07

I stand by that, I still think it should be mandatory as many other events like Olympics and Paralympics. ever since Rugby Union joined the Olympic movement there has been a slow concerted effort towards parity. This in my opinion is only one option.

Lets not forget that after Tokyo all new sports will be reviewed and decided by the IOC should they remain in the Olympics.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 20:19

Okay no problem. I'm not disputing that putting them together would have benefits, just that the costs associated would be too much to bear.

I think the paralympics makes my point most strongly. Its not a real event on its own merits, it piggy backs on the Olympics and most hosts only do it because they have to in order to get the Olympics.

I think you can achieve far greater growth and parity of esteem through keeping the bidding and delivery as a separate, but incentivized, thing.

Of course the other factor is that the men's RWC is the cash cow for the whole game. By tying the Women's RWC to it the main thing you achieve is drastically limiting the number of countries that could host a Women's competition. You make it so that in order to host one of only four World Rugby properties you also have to be able to host the biggest one.

The USA or Canada for instance could probably host a commercially successful women's RWC at the moment, or certainly could soon, and then use that experience to launch a men's bid. By formally tying the two together they couldn't get that experience until they were awarded a men's tournament. An award they would have to win without experience of hosting a similar tournament!

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 20:36

Anyway,

Back on topic who else might bid?

Argentina: Australia have announced early to try and capture the SANZAAR vote, if such a thing exists, but Argentina has a lot going for it too. Completing the continents is still a compelling bidding story, likely to recognise France's success came from building relationships with T2 nations.

Italy: Two European cups in a row seems unlikely, as above but opposite it doesn't make for a very compelling story to "spread the game" or competition to a country which borders the previous host! Big plus would be money though. Italy is a big economy and perfectly placed to make the most of UK & France TV markets.

SA: Seems likely after the controversy this time. Bid would be similar to last time but surely with the obvious politiking weakness covered. Good timezone, would be over 30 years since last African world cup.

USA: Unlikely to me as union doesn't seem organised enough, or experienced enough. After a hopefully successful 7s RWC in San Fran though they may feel confident enough to bid. With league apparently hosting their cup in USA the WR administrators may feel the need to reward NA to keep pace. Financially you would think they would blow the others out of the water with associated deals. Window is always a potential problem. A lot will hinge on whether Japan 2019 is seen as a success; if so USA is well placed to take advantage.

Canada: Always lumped in with USA but is actually more than big enough to host on its own. Same risks as USA with a lot of a potential bid.

England: For the lols.

Combined Georgian/Russian bid: See other thread for serious and sober discussion of this prospect.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 21:09

Can Argentina afford it? That is the question, I am sure their priorities lie elsewhere The inflation rate in Argentina was recorded at 22.90 percent in October so unless something drastically happens they are out on Economic reasons.

I would back Italy, to make a European bid but I am afraid the fact France has won it, will go against them same to Ireland which received a harsh review in my opinion.

Canada I believe is their chance to grab it...

South Africa not so sure... I know Africa has not had it in a generation.

Russia-Georgia no chance 2032 as France has got it.

wildcard option back to Asia...

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 23:01

Thomas wrote:Can Argentina afford it? That is the question, I am sure their priorities lie elsewhere The inflation rate in Argentina was recorded at 22.90 percent in October so unless something drastically happens they are out on Economic reasons.

You clearly don't understand how priorities rank in Latin countries. And before another user tells me I'm rude, I say this from a country which held handball, basketball and sailing world cups, America's Cup, two F1 Grand Prix, four MotoGP events and bidded for Olympics, Soccer World Cup and Ryder Cup at the peak of its worst economic crisis in 40 years.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 23:05

sk 88 wrote:Post


Argentina: Pichot has already said they're out.
Italy: Not gonna happen
RSA: Until you get the safety thing figured out, not gonna happen.
USA: Ha
CAN: Ha Ha
Georgia/Romania: whoa

So I guess that puts in Dubai or Singapore?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Thomas » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 23:14

I understand better than you think, and comparing Spain to Argentina is not the same. Spain has been a powerhouse for years in sports events. Latin America has no major history aside from the odd Olympics (Mexico and Brazil) and recent World Cups ( Argentina, Mexico and Brazil). F1 and Moto GP Racing has been there and is different as they are a yearly event so is the Dakar Rally.

I am from that part of the world and go there regularly and I see what is happening on the ground. Whatever your opinion I don't see Argentina hosting it. I would love to be proven wrong and the RWC heading to South America but cannot see it.

Too many other factors and influences affecting the region. I don't think you are rude but don't assume everything.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 14 Dec 2017, 23:25

I don't think Argentina is going to bid because Pichot already said they are unlikely to do so, but I don't believe this will be in anyway related to their economic situation at the time of the decision.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 15 Dec 2017, 01:20

Women and mens world cup should never be a packaged bid because it limits who can apply to both world cups. Women's world cup needs to be allowed to be used as another means of expanding the game like what sevens is, it shouldn't be tied with the mens event at all.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 15 Dec 2017, 01:30

Here's the like venue capacity for Australia in 2027

Olympic Park, Sydney - 75,000
Perth Stadium, WA - 65,000
Adelaide Oval - 56,000
Docklands Stadium, Melbourne - 55,000
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane - 52,500
New Sydney Football Stadium - 45,000
Newcastle Stadium - 30,000
Parramatta Stadium, Sydney - 30,000
North Townsville Stadium - 25,000
New Canberra Stadium - 25,000

Assuming 20 teams is still the format I'd schedule the 40 pools games as follows:
Sydney - 9
Brisbane - 7
Townsville - 3
Newcastle - 4
Canberra - 4
Perth - 5
Melbourne - 4
Adelaide - 3

1 quarterfinal in each of Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne and Perth. 2 Semi-finals and the Final in Sydney.
Last edited by thatrugbyguy on Fri, 15 Dec 2017, 01:36, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 15 Dec 2017, 01:35

thatrugbyguy wrote:Women and mens world cup should never be a packaged bid because it limits who can apply to both world cups. Women's world cup needs to be allowed to be used as another means of expanding the game like what sevens is, it shouldn't be tied with the mens event at all.

Australia isn't tying their Women's bid to their Men's bid, that is just what someone is saying should happen.

Like for me, I think the US needs to bid for 2031, at this juncture I see 2027 as too late because we still have to get ourselves out of a rut. But as a key piece of the strategic plan that would get us the 2031 hosting is also bidding for the 2025 or 2029 WRWC. Hosting that. Just a tremendous amount of lessons can be learned when you've never hosted the big one.

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