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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 15:51

That's the only time it can be played. There doesn't appear to be much in the way of plan so far other than three test matches to be played in Denver over the next 3 years. They're expecting a crowd of around 20,000 for the NZ v England test there in the next few hours. It's a good number for an exhibition match but I don't know what it will mean long term. The feeling I get is they are hoping the game alone will in people over but I don't know how realistically that plan is. 7 years to win over enough Americans to support a 16 team RL world cup in NFL stadiums in the middle of NFL season? I don't know how you do that.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Grayday88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 16:05

Why play the match at Mile High if they had of played at the MLS stadium this 20000 would look decent

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 16:14

Grayday88 wrote:Why play the match at Mile High if they had of played at the MLS stadium this 20000 would look decent


I don't think they'd get 20k at the MLS stadium. It's out of the way with poor transportation links. There's also added perceived legitimacy to an event taking place at Mile High over Dicks.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 16:32

Grayday88 wrote:Why play the match at Mile High if they had of played at the MLS stadium this 20000 would look decent


Rugby League people have this weird idea that if they hook up with the NFL in some way the sport will explode in the US. Something about them believing the similarities of the sport is enough to win Americans over. It’s this weird obsession that’s existed in RL for as long as I can remember.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Grayday88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 16:47

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Grayday88 wrote:Why play the match at Mile High if they had of played at the MLS stadium this 20000 would look decent


Rugby League people have this weird idea that if they hook up with the NFL in some way the sport will explode in the US. Something about them believing the similarities of the sport is enough to win Americans over. It’s this weird obsession that’s existed in RL for as long as I can remember.



Possibly but instead of these vanity projects rugby league would be better investing in growing the game at grassroots level. Also from an Irish POV the last RLWC was embarrassing an Irish team with 21/25 heritage players and virtually no coverage

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 17:18

I don't think they're getting 20k...but at least the teams won't be dressing rooms that are falling apart and first class med facilities if any get injured.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 18:41

jservuk wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
jservuk wrote:England fan numbers are lower because there hasn't been the usual false high hopes.

In fact there has been some suggestion that people have fallen out of love with the England national football team because of the manner of recent failures. If true, then it's a pity that the England RU team had a poor home World Cup, is in a poor run of form, and the RFU has behaved in generally mildly distasteful manner wrt purple kits, too many kit changes, the in your face all black kit in 2011.

They could have made big in-roads to take advantage of the football malaise and relative apathy.

I do fear for all other sports in England for what would happen if the football team actually won the World Cup.



Well 21 million people watched the Tunisia game, 18m on TV and 3m on iPlayer, so we can safely put that one to bed.


My point was that there was certainly a period of deep apathy towards the national football team that has never been seen before, and I was lamenting the fact that Rugby was not able to capitalise on it. Ye, now that it's "game on", people are coming out of the woodwork again.

How does 21m compare te England RU World CUp 2015 TV audiences?



Personally I don't agree with that, or rather I don't agree that antipathy towards the England team actually correlates with wider support of the game. The Premier League goes from strength to strength, and lower league football is also a fun and good experience. So week to week people who like football get a lot of enjoyment out of it and England's occasional travails don't really affect that. I remain very skeptical that the occasional interludes of the England team make any real influence. Obviously winning the World Cup would be a different gravy entirely.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 18:44

welshdragon2000 wrote:When will those bidding for the 2027 world cup be announced? Or is it just a long drawn out process?


July 2015 was when the 2023 bids were confirmed. Using the same time scale would see July 2019 as the final date.

You'd think the interest would be ramping up a little bit if anyone other than Australia was seriously considering a bid.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 19:37

victorsra wrote:The big problem about the Lions year is that the British wouldn't (obviously) care about and without full strenght Home Nations France (or better: French fans) would have no reason to giveit importance, which means it would be much more lucrative for France to keep playing the second most lucrative tour of that month (behind the Lions tour) against one of All Blacks/Springboks/Wallabies. Therefore such tournament wont happen. Sorry.


1) I totally disagree, people bang on about the Lions but arguably it doesn't add up to more than the sum of its parts. A lot of people engage with it because it is a good game of rugby and there is little else on. The England v Argentina tests drew twice the TV audience of the British Lions tour games, admittedly on free to air TV. Never mind touching the audiences for 6N. Somewhere between 8 and 20 thousand people followed the tour, the first link below shows tourism going up by c.8k compared to the year before, whilst the second one claims 8k on official tours and 8k on self tours (a lot of which I would guess were people who were going to NZ anyway). As we can see from the previous links on this thread that is less than England & Ireland combined for the RWC not including Wales or Scotland.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11893510

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/15378855/lions-boost-nz-economy

I personally don't feel 8k people following the tour is really that many, certainly not enough to justify never developing anything else.

2) As for June tours being "lucrative" we can categorically rule that out. A normal tour does not net the tourists any money at all as far as I am aware. The Lions tour only sent back a dividend of £1.25m for each of the home nations. A 12 Euroes would not need to net huge monies to make a bigger contribution. Using the same 21 match format as the Under 20s means each game would need to generate a net £700k to yield the £15m needed to out perform the Lions tour financially. The 2015 RWC reportedly generated £400m on 48 games or £8.3m per match.

victorsra wrote:Moreover there is no reason for the 6Ns to want a competition that will rival their 6N in importance. The 6N belongs to those Unions. It is quite clear why no one is talking about making a Euro Championship every 4 years.



Now that I 100% agree with. :thumbup: They don't want to rock the boat on their main revenue generator and potentially undermine it. Now that at least is understandable if very annoying.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 21:10

The problem with expanding to 24 teams is the tournament format.

With 6 groups of 4 teams, the group phase would be incredible boring. There would be just 5 matches between tier 1 teams, versus 8 with the current format. The number of teams without wins would increase from 4 to 6. And all matches would be less competitive than now.

I would prefer a format of 4 groups of 6 teams, with no quarter-finals. This would keep the competitiveness between teams. But there are downsides to that format as well.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 22:12

TheStroBro wrote:I don't think they're getting 20k...but at least the teams won't be dressing rooms that are falling apart and first class med facilities if any get injured.


Just over 19,000 apparently, doesn’t look it though. Plenty of people on Twitter thinking it’s the All Blacks playing too. I don’t know what the gauge of success is for RL for this test but I don’t know if I would be walking out knowing anything more than what I already knew about the World Cup.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 22:20

thatrugbyguy wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:I don't think they're getting 20k...but at least the teams won't be dressing rooms that are falling apart and first class med facilities if any get injured.


Just over 19,000 apparently, doesn’t look it though. Plenty of people on Twitter thinking it’s the All Blacks playing too. I don’t know what the gauge of success is for RL for this test but I don’t know if I would be walking out knowing anything more than what I already knew about the World Cup.

So...it's apparently on CBS Sports, turned it on at half time. But you wouldn't have known if you have a subscription from youtubeTV because it said PBA bowling was the thang. It might, and might have have had 12k in attendance with the employees...

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 22:25

You think the All Blacks v England would have sold more tickets?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Grayday88 » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 22:29

thatrugbyguy wrote:You think the All Blacks v England would have sold more tickets?



I would say so bear in mind Ireland All Blacks sold 60k

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 22:40

thatrugbyguy wrote:You think the All Blacks v England would have sold more tickets?


England/Ireland v All Blacks should sell out almost anywhere, given proper promotion. England v ABs in Latvia would probably still have sold better.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby The Do » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 23:12

NaBUru38 wrote:The problem with expanding to 24 teams is the tournament format.

With 6 groups of 4 teams, the group phase would be incredible boring. There would be just 5 matches between tier 1 teams, versus 8 with the current format. The number of teams without wins would increase from 4 to 6. And all matches would be less competitive than now.

I would prefer a format of 4 groups of 6 teams, with no quarter-finals. This would keep the competitiveness between teams. But there are downsides to that format as well.



I love this idea and something I have being saying for years. Have top two in each pool through to the S quarters, positions 3rd-4th playoff in a winner takes all for 4 automatic qualifying for the next RWC. Eg
A3 vs B4
B3 vs C4
C3 vs D4
D3 vs A4

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Sat, 23 Jun 2018, 23:32

thatrugbyguy wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:I don't think they're getting 20k...but at least the teams won't be dressing rooms that are falling apart and first class med facilities if any get injured.


Just over 19,000 apparently, doesn’t look it though. Plenty of people on Twitter thinking it’s the All Blacks playing too. I don’t know what the gauge of success is for RL for this test but I don’t know if I would be walking out knowing anything more than what I already knew about the World Cup.


I'm curious to see if this ends up benefitting rugby union in the US too, specifically in Denver. Fans who went to the game from the area to check it out will likely search for local rugby if they enjoyed it. There isn't a single rugby league team in Denver but there are plenty of rugby union clubs, including the Raptors. There seem to be quite a few confused about the difference in codes and showed up because they saw rugby - apparently quite a few All Blacks jerseys.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 02:32

That's the puzzling thing about them choosing Denver. There's no local rugby league team for literally thousands of kilometres away. How do they expect to capitalise on this if the only rugby clubs are the rival code? In context of the sport the event is a success, 19,000 for a RL game is good for the market. But still, what are the goals for this 2025 world cup? How much interest can be genuinely created in 7 years?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 02:44

Since TWP have come to Toronto, I've gotten in to the sport. This being said, Rugby League fans in the U.K. make the Six Nations look infinitely progressive by comparison. I've realized that Rugby League doesn't have a clue how to develop it self in to a world class professional sport. It's too bad, because the game can be quite entertaining to watch when played at a high level.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 05:50

thatrugbyguy wrote:You think the All Blacks v England would have sold more tickets?

All Blacks V England would have sold out without much physical effort to be honest. The Name of both carry. Sold out the Eagles game vs them...sold 28k to the Maori, the next day they played Ireland in a sold out Soldier Field.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 09:14

Canadian_Rugger wrote:Since TWP have come to Toronto, I've gotten in to the sport. This being said, Rugby League fans in the U.K. make the Six Nations look infinitely progressive by comparison. I've realized that Rugby League doesn't have a clue how to develop it self in to a world class professional sport. It's too bad, because the game can be quite entertaining to watch when played at a high level.


It's because no-one in the game wants to do the actual hard work and invest in grassroots, it's all about finding quick solutions. I was involved with the game years ago and there's a deluded belief that all the game has to do is present itself and it will win people over. It's this fantasy that RL is objectively the best sport. Thing I learned today was the promoter who brought this RL test to Denver was originally trying to get the All Blacks and England playing at the venue. Apparently the only reason he went after RL was because issues between him and USAR couldn't be resolved. This is the guy running the 2025 World Cup, I fear he's promised far more than he can deliver.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 14:19

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:Since TWP have come to Toronto, I've gotten in to the sport. This being said, Rugby League fans in the U.K. make the Six Nations look infinitely progressive by comparison. I've realized that Rugby League doesn't have a clue how to develop it self in to a world class professional sport. It's too bad, because the game can be quite entertaining to watch when played at a high level.


It's because no-one in the game wants to do the actual hard work and invest in grassroots, it's all about finding quick solutions. I was involved with the game years ago and there's a deluded belief that all the game has to do is present itself and it will win people over. It's this fantasy that RL is objectively the best sport. Thing I learned today was the promoter who brought this RL test to Denver was originally trying to get the All Blacks and England playing at the venue. Apparently the only reason he went after RL was because issues between him and USAR couldn't be resolved. This is the guy running the 2025 World Cup, I fear he's promised far more than he can deliver.


Moore Sports, the guys promoting it, were interested in Rugby first and tried to set up his own rugby u competition, but didn't manage to sell any of the franchises. He actually also introduced Doug Schrodinger to Rugby (Moore was the guy that he referred to as 'this dreamer wanting $XXMMs to uy a franchise that would play in an NFL stadium.

There's a reason why they think that. They un-ironically call it 'The Greatest Game', despite the fact that in 200 years they haven't grown it beyond Aus or the M62.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 14:46

Moore Sports brought Major League Baseball for the first time to Sydney a few years back. The difference between that and this RL venture is that Australia has a decent size baseball culture and the sport has been present for the best part of a hundred years.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 24 Jun 2018, 16:06

thatrugbyguy wrote:It's because no-one in the game wants to do the actual hard work and invest in grassroots, it's all about finding quick solutions. I was involved with the game years ago and there's a deluded belief that all the game has to do is present itself and it will win people over. It's this fantasy that RL is objectively the best sport. Thing I learned today was the promoter who brought this RL test to Denver was originally trying to get the All Blacks and England playing at the venue. Apparently the only reason he went after RL was because issues between him and USAR couldn't be resolved. This is the guy running the 2025 World Cup, I fear he's promised far more than he can deliver.

The promoter for the All Blacks in the US is The Legacy Agency...no way in hell would Jason Moore ever get a chance to do that. A deal between England and NZRU...you'd need to begin negotiation 5 years in advance.

Blurandski wrote:
Moore Sports, the guys promoting it, were interested in Rugby first and tried to set up his own rugby u competition, but didn't manage to sell any of the franchises. He actually also introduced Doug Schrodinger to Rugby (Moore was the guy that he referred to as 'this dreamer wanting $XXMMs to uy a franchise that would play in an NFL stadium.

There's a reason why they think that. They un-ironically call it 'The Greatest Game', despite the fact that in 200 years they haven't grown it beyond Aus or the M62.


Ah yes...Jason Moore is how we ended up with Doug, of course we'd have issues with him.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 12:57

Just on the RL game in Denver, it looks like there's just enough room to fit the minimum requirements for a rugby pitch (106m x 68m). The concrete slabs around the field can be removed to increase the field size which I wasn't aware of, so there's just enough space for Mile High Stadium to host world cup games in the future should it be considered as a potential venue. It's a very tight fit, and USAR still might consider asking WR for an exemption to make it 2-3m narrower, but considering there's padding all around the fencing of these NFL stadiums player safety shouldn't be an issue.

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