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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Immenso » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 22:34

sk 88 wrote:
2) As for June tours being "lucrative" we can categorically rule that out. A normal tour does not net the tourists any money at all as far as I am aware. The Lions tour only sent back a dividend of £1.25m for each of the home nations. A 12 Euroes would not need to net huge monies to make a bigger contribution. Using the same 21 match format as the Under 20s means each game would need to generate a net £700k to yield the £15m needed to out perform the Lions tour financially. The 2015 RWC reportedly generated £400m on 48 games or £8.3m per match.


To digress.

The Lions tour sent back a dividend of £1.25m for each of the home nations, while the 4 home unions also fulfilled their 'away' obligations by sending development teams away in June as full capped tours to Argentina, Australia etc.

So the true benefit is; Away obligation fulfilled, so now get to keep 100% of home November tours in return. Plus also earn £1.25m each for the Lions 'sideline business'.

For your calculations above to be correct for working out the cost/benefits of a June Euros every 4 years. You need to factor in that the 6 Nations teams won't get to play at home in November of that year v SH teams (or if they do, won't keep 100% of their gate in those years).

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Grayday88 » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 23:34

Going back to the Denver RL match I can’t help but notice that 19k is being sold as a success whereas the RU press portrayed the 21 k for Wales Springboks as a failure

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Coloradoan » Mon, 25 Jun 2018, 23:50

Grayday88 wrote:Going back to the Denver RL match I can’t help but notice that 19k is being sold as a success whereas the RU press portrayed the 21 k for Wales Springboks as a failure


21k for Wales-Springboks was a failure because RIM lost substantial money on it, which means it impacted USA Rugby.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 03:01

The RL test lost money also but only for the promoter and not the game itself. The IRLF, NRL and the USARL had no investment in the event, hence why the SA v Wal test is considered a flop. I think the RFL and NZRL were guaranteed a decent payout regardless if the crowd was 19,000 or 72,000. It's a success by virtue of it being someone else's money that's being lost.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 11:56

It’s also League which is next to nonexistent in the US. There isn’t even a club in Colorado. I think the closest one is in Chicago.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 13:27

Anyone who walked out of that thinking ‘I want more rugby’ is probably going to join a local union club/ go watch the MLR playoffs at Glendale.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 15:48

Most people showed up looking for the All Blacks...

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 26 Jun 2018, 17:41

Immenso wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
2) As for June tours being "lucrative" we can categorically rule that out. A normal tour does not net the tourists any money at all as far as I am aware. The Lions tour only sent back a dividend of £1.25m for each of the home nations. A 12 Euroes would not need to net huge monies to make a bigger contribution. Using the same 21 match format as the Under 20s means each game would need to generate a net £700k to yield the £15m needed to out perform the Lions tour financially. The 2015 RWC reportedly generated £400m on 48 games or £8.3m per match.


To digress.

The Lions tour sent back a dividend of £1.25m for each of the home nations, while the 4 home unions also fulfilled their 'away' obligations by sending development teams away in June as full capped tours to Argentina, Australia etc.

So the true benefit is; Away obligation fulfilled, so now get to keep 100% of home November tours in return. Plus also earn £1.25m each for the Lions 'sideline business'.

For your calculations above to be correct for working out the cost/benefits of a June Euros every 4 years. You need to factor in that the 6 Nations teams won't get to play at home in November of that year v SH teams (or if they do, won't keep 100% of their gate in those years).



Yeah, we'd see about that. The other southern hemisphere nations could always play their local neighbours like Fiji or Tonga. :shock:

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Wooders » Wed, 25 Jul 2018, 12:52

If the rugby world cup is held in Argentina in 2027, why not have some games in Uruguay? Uruguay could play each of their group games at home in Montevideo, which is geographically relatively close to Buenos Aries compared to the rest of Argentina. Estadio Centenario has 70,000 seats, plus I'm sure the locals would get behind it as it would probably be the biggest world event Uruguay has hosted since the 1930 FIFA world cup.
Seems like a winner to me.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 25 Jul 2018, 13:01

I think Argentina have all but given up hosting in the near future. Australia has announced it will officially bid for 2027 though.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Wed, 25 Jul 2018, 14:27

A shame, I’d very much like to go to Argentina. Theybhave had economic issues there and were very insular (and still are) so I can understand some difficulty there. Up until recently they had a black/blue market for currency exchange....the official rate was lower than the normal rate so people would bring cash to illegal cash exchange houses for better rates. That’s done awaybwith but it’s still not perfect and that may scare off world rugby.

Any Argentinian here can correct me if I’m way off.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Wooders » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 12:19

Ah that's a shame if true, that Argentina have all but given up. it would be an amazing travel destination to go to South America for a rugby World Cup.

Also, South America is a massive growth market for rugby at the moment. I have a feeling that hosting a World Cup down there would only accelerate that.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 12:25

Wooders wrote:Ah that's a shame if true, that Argentina have all but given up. it would be an amazing travel destination to go to South America for a rugby World Cup.

Also, South America is a massive growth market for rugby at the moment. I have a feeling that hosting a World Cup down there would only accelerate that.


It would certainly help in Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay. If the Liga Sudamericana takes off it would be great for promoting it.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby jservuk » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 16:04

I don't know what the financial commitment required is, but I think Argentina and Brazil could host it, given the recent stadia upgrades for Brazil 2014 and I think Argentina spruced up some grounds for a recent Copa America.

In fact, in Brazil's case, a quick visit would be advised given the rate at which some of those stadia are rotting now - even the Maracana stadium is looking derelict again.

RWC needs to be smart - follow an Olympics or World Cup to feed off their spend on infrastructure and stadia.

I think likelihood is 2027 will go to USA, judging by what has been said this week after the 7s WC.

The exciting thing about RWC hosting is that it is genuinely intriguing to see where it goes and what impact it has.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 18:06

jservuk wrote:I don't know what the financial commitment required is, but I think Argentina and Brazil could host it, given the recent stadia upgrades for Brazil 2014 and I think Argentina spruced up some grounds for a recent Copa America.

In fact, in Brazil's case, a quick visit would be advised given the rate at which some of those stadia are rotting now - even the Maracana stadium is looking derelict again.

RWC needs to be smart - follow an Olympics or World Cup to feed off their spend on infrastructure and stadia.

I think likelihood is 2027 will go to USA, judging by what has been said this week after the 7s WC.

The exciting thing about RWC hosting is that it is genuinely intriguing to see where it goes and what impact it has.


It's not just about financial commitment to World Rugby but to your stadium sponsors. Everything has to be underwritten. This is basically a $400MM easy underwriting, that's why only major Unions get the chance here. Not sure what Brasil's Soccer federation's revenue was at when they hosted the World Cup, but it's leaps and bounds higher than USA Rugby's.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 19:27

Maracanã's crisis is solved, it is not empty anymore, it is the home of Fluminense now, one of Rio's big football clubs.

Of the 12 stadiums used for the WC, 5 are problems: Brasilia (best club in 4th division), Cuiabá (best club in 3rd division), Manaus (best club in 4th division), Natal (best club in 3rd division, but only used by a 4th division club) and Recife (used by a 3rd division historical club - that has a recent past in 1st and 2nd divisions and has clearly regreted from leaving its smaller but better located private stadium). The others are owned by or leased to big football clubs that have decent attendances.

Forget Brazil as a RWC host. We could have like 1 or 2 venues if the RWC is in Argentina. Nothing more than this.
Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Thu, 26 Jul 2018, 20:42

jservuk wrote:I don't know what the financial commitment required is, but I think Argentina and Brazil could host it, given the recent stadia upgrades for Brazil 2014 and I think Argentina spruced up some grounds for a recent Copa America.

In fact, in Brazil's case, a quick visit would be advised given the rate at which some of those stadia are rotting now - even the Maracana stadium is looking derelict again.

RWC needs to be smart - follow an Olympics or World Cup to feed off their spend on infrastructure and stadia.

I think likelihood is 2027 will go to USA, judging by what has been said this week after the 7s WC.

The exciting thing about RWC hosting is that it is genuinely intriguing to see where it goes and what impact it has.


According to this article, Ireland just made the minimum required bid of £120 million for 2023.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 03:27

Tobar wrote:
jservuk wrote:I don't know what the financial commitment required is, but I think Argentina and Brazil could host it, given the recent stadia upgrades for Brazil 2014 and I think Argentina spruced up some grounds for a recent Copa America.

In fact, in Brazil's case, a quick visit would be advised given the rate at which some of those stadia are rotting now - even the Maracana stadium is looking derelict again.

RWC needs to be smart - follow an Olympics or World Cup to feed off their spend on infrastructure and stadia.

I think likelihood is 2027 will go to USA, judging by what has been said this week after the 7s WC.

The exciting thing about RWC hosting is that it is genuinely intriguing to see where it goes and what impact it has.


According to this article, Ireland just made the minimum required bid of £120 million for 2023.


I think many are assuming that WR would take the opportunity to crack the US market over the minimum required bid. But I think that a little wishful. If the US is a target it would more likely be 2031.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 06:56

There’s no way that the US could get away with not putting up the minimum hosting fee, WR needs at least that amount to keep funding going for their programmes, that being said as long as the US met the minimum bid they’d probably be preferred over a country that far exceeded it (eg France 2023).

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 11:02

How much money do host countries actually make, after the bids and whatever expenses needed to pay out? I know England made a ton and that was the most profitable RWC but I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said how much profit they really made.

I would imagine that having more rugby infrastructure in a smaller sized country helped reduce costs. We have facilities here for sure but not owned and operated by rugby clubs.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 11:39

Tobar wrote:How much money do host countries actually make, after the bids and whatever expenses needed to pay out? I know England made a ton and that was the most profitable RWC but I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said how much profit they really made.

I would imagine that having more rugby infrastructure in a smaller sized country helped reduce costs. We have facilities here for sure but not owned and operated by rugby clubs.


I'm not sure on the exact figures but it has been trending upward as the events have been held. However, according to this article https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/201 ... 1sFR9IzbIU
it will provide the Japanese economy with a $4.1b injected into it.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 11:55

Tobar wrote:I know England made a ton and that was the most profitable RWC but I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said how much profit they really made.


http://www.offtheball.com/Heres-the-bre ... -World-Cup

Breakdown from before the tournament. Gives you an idea about the numbers. Surplus of 20-41 million Euro. And that's after 106 million Euro went to World Rugby.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Blurandski » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 14:06

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Tobar wrote:I know England made a ton and that was the most profitable RWC but I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said how much profit they really made.


http://www.offtheball.com/Heres-the-bre ... -World-Cup

Breakdown from before the tournament. Gives you an idea about the numbers. Surplus of 20-41 million Euro. And that's after 106 million Euro went to World Rugby.


This: http://www.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/21 ... ial-muscle puts WR getting £160m, with the France 2023 bid guaranteeing a minimum of £350m, about £80m ahead of Ireland/SA (who guaranteed the minimum amount possible). The USA won't have to beat everyone on financials to win the bid, but it'd certainly have to come close, France offered WR the equivalent of an extra 6months of current levels of funding every year above the other two. While the other two looked close, in all actuality it was nowhere near, with them providing a 68% increase in the annual budget versus France offering a 120% increase.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 15:41

Tobar wrote:How much money do host countries actually make, after the bids and whatever expenses needed to pay out? I know England made a ton and that was the most profitable RWC but I haven’t been able to find anywhere that said how much profit they really made.

I would imagine that having more rugby infrastructure in a smaller sized country helped reduce costs. We have facilities here for sure but not owned and operated by rugby clubs.


The RFU doubled their revenue as a result of the RWC. Specific revenues from the RWC were £228.1MM.

They only posted a £3.9MM profit, but that has more to dow with how much they re-invested that year.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... an-ritchie

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Fri, 27 Jul 2018, 15:42

Very nice, thanks guys. The article I listed about didna great job breaking down the scoring for the 2023 hosts.

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