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France to reduce number of outsiders

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France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby vino_93 » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 11:05

I open a topic, as I don't know where to post it.
Bernard Laporte, FFR president, just declares he wants to reduce the number of outsider players in Top 14 and Pro D2, as it is done in Fédérale : https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... -14/858707

In Fédérale, the regulations are link with licences.
Licence A : french players, or outsiders with 7 years of french licence
Licence B : EU members
Licence C : non EU members

In Féd 1 : maximum 5 B and 1 C per game sheet --> to be reduced by one for next season, and another one for 2019, so only 4 outsiders
In Féd 2 and 3 : only 4 outsiders per game sheet, to be reduced to 3 and 2

This could impact many nations with strong links to France. Especially Georgia and Pacific Islanders, if such regulations applied to Top 14 and Pro D2. Fortunately EU members players could still come to develop.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 12:12

Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 14:18

sk 88 wrote:Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.


Says the guy from England who have next to no European players in their leagues due to availabily laws.

I can totally understand what the French Union are doing here. But it is bad for (poorer) t2 countries. France was and is the only hope the get many players a pro-contract.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 14:26

I understand many non-EU members would be assimilated as EU members through Cotonou agreement, including South Africa, Fiji, Samoa or Tonga.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 14:34

RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.


Says the guy from England who have next to no European players in their leagues due to availabily laws.

I can totally understand what the French Union are doing here. But it is bad for (poorer) t2 countries. France was and is the only hope the get many players a pro-contract.



1) I am not the RFU, home office, PRL or club. I have no control on who plays in our league.
2) I doubt you'll ever find a post where I say what a great thing our EQP rules are, I think you'd find quite a few where I am critical of them.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby vino_93 » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 16:26

sk 88 wrote:Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.

Yes and no. I guess it's easier nowadays to buy a young fijian or georgian instead of developping young local guys. But that's true too that out young system is bad. Maybe because pro clubs aren't interested in. Now they will have to focus on.

@armchair : not sure it could work if story is about licence and not nationality.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 16:36

If FFR denies equal working rights to citizens whose countries have deals with EU any of those players affected could send FFR to the courts. Let's see how they write the rules in the end, but it matters little whether they say the barrier is a licence if that licence is given pending on the original nationality of the player.

Basketball Spanish league (ACB) has had almost the same model as LNR concerning JIFFs and Cotonou Agreement was always a big hole in the wall. In fact L'Équipe also highlights that issue in its article.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby Kiroshi » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 16:43

RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.


Says the guy from England who have next to no European players in their leagues due to availabily laws.

I can totally understand what the French Union are doing here. But it is bad for (poorer) t2 countries. France was and is the only hope the get many players a pro-contract.

:thumbup:

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby Thomas » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 17:44

sk 88 wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
sk 88 wrote:Such a shame France is going down this route.

Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.


Says the guy from England who have next to no European players in their leagues due to availabily laws.

I can totally understand what the French Union are doing here. But it is bad for (poorer) t2 countries. France was and is the only hope the get many players a pro-contract.



1) I am not the RFU, home office, PRL or club. I have no control on who plays in our league.
2) I doubt you'll ever find a post where I say what a great thing our EQP rules are, I think you'd find quite a few where I am critical of them.


What level of Rugby are we talking about here?? Level 1 ( Premier) to Level 4?? or Level 5 and below if it's the latter then Rugby Liebe you are mistaking there are a lot of players in the lower leagues from Europe and (non-europeans) playing week in week out. I come across them all the time.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 17 Dec 2017, 19:59

Gosh I hate this shit. LNR is the only professional organization that operates without massive subsidy or control by their Union. That means that they should be the model. As far as performance of the National team, if you can't field a competitive side with the amount of professional players you have that's not because of the Top 14. Perhaps less hookers in the change room after a Test.


EDIT: And Japan To League.
Last edited by TheStroBro on Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 16:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby gambass » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 10:53

sk 88 wrote:Its easier to blame foreigners than introduce real change in the 16-21 age bracket and improve your own.


This. So much this.

When this topic arises (so pretty much every day in France), I always like to point out that Australia was world champion with only 3 professionnal teams and less than 100 pro rugby players.

There is no point in having less foreign players in pro leagues. The only effect will be to move up lesser french players into professionnal ranks. But these lesser players will always be the lesser players and are not going to make our NT a bit better.

Our NT players will be exactly the same ones as today, except they will play against worse rugby players weeks in and weeks out. Hurray.

We are not producing enough good rugby players. This is simple as this, and these new rules are not going to change any of that.

I'm less critical with the move within federal leagues, but it has much more to do with maintaining the integrity of these local semi-pro, semi-amateur leagues than with our NT (I'd like to drop the promotion to pro ranks for that same reason, but that's another topic).

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby vino_93 » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 12:57

I partially agree with you. For sure the goal ils is not to kick out of the league all outsiders, as this would decrease the league level.

But let's be honest : how many outsiders do bring something to the league ? Each clubs have low quality outsiders (south African, new zealanders, ...) to play as third choice. That's these guys the problem. Our young guys need to play more to develop themselves. Now they have difficulties to make the team because it's easier to take a random south African to play now.

Plus if you restrict outsiders recruitements, teams will have to invest on youths formation. They couldn't anymore rely on monney to buy already mature outsiders players.


But what is sure is that it will change nothing in short term. And that you need to keep outsiders to maintain the league level.


But the move isn't at a bad timing. There will be pro rugby in malaysia, usa, brasil, iprc... Spain has many semi pros too. Italian clubs look to want to improve their standards. I guess that many guys could find contract the years coming.

I guess the only nation which really suffer will be Georgia. New zealand doesn't care about third range guys. Other euro nation will still be in, as south africa...

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 13:17

English football can be an example. Premier league competition was suffocated by strangers but they also raise the level of competition & money in English football. The competition starting to be fierce even on academy level of players with juniors sent in England from all over the world. The result is that English juniors have great results on their grade on a level they never been before (World Champions U19&u17, semifinals U21). Sometimes if you manage well the situation actually can help your youth.
We can say that Top 14 is the Premier League o f the rugby and i think we will not make a mistake. Proper management can change everything.

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby gambass » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 13:40

vino_93 wrote:Our young guys need to play more to develop themselves. Now they have difficulties to make the team because it's easier to take a random south African to play now.


Why is that ? That's very much the crux of the matter which is not going to be fixed by these new rules. It's not like our yougsters are setting the world on fire,. A better formation set tup should be the prime job for the federation to look at (on conjuration with the clubs).

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Re: France to reduce number of outsiders

Postby NaBUru38 » Mon, 18 Dec 2017, 16:03

French clubs prefer importing Southern players to developing their academies.

French clubs can easily ignore any suggestions by the FFR.

I doubt that anything will change.

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