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ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Was_a_Kat » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:34

LittleGuy wrote:24-10, this is slipping away.


We’ve barely held the ball.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:36

Was_a_Kat wrote:Not going to subs earlier seems strange.


I was thinking the same thing, some of the guys were clearly gassed and have put in a crap load of tackles.

Blevins in trouble now possibly.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Was_a_Kat » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:38

LittleGuy wrote:
Was_a_Kat wrote:Not going to subs earlier seems strange.


I was thinking the same thing, some of the guys were clearly gassed and have put in a crap load of tackles.

Blevins in trouble now possibly.


Eagles got a boost when they subbed. Barkwill is still in. He doesn’t look that fit.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:39

Wow, that was a strange turn of events.

Dolan was having a great game.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:45

Bench all bring brought in now, bar Lagain.

Why is the 37 year old Hooker still on after 72 minutes?

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:49

LittleGuy wrote:Bench all bring brought in now, bar Lagain.

Why is the 37 year old Hooker still on after 72 minutes?


Last game ever :lol:

The US Bench annihilated us, looks like men vs boys out there.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:52

U.S. tactical decisions have been so much better than Canada's it's ludicrous. Better gameplan, better use of subs, better decisions when in trouble.

Barkwill doing the full 80 it looks like.....weird.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:52

LittleGuy wrote:Bench all bring brought in now, bar Lagain.

Why is the 37 year old Hooker still on after 72 minutes?


37 year old fat hooker who barely gets around at the start of the game and would probably be the oldest player in the entire RWC if we make it even. How bad must Lagain be???
Last edited by marvinparsons on Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:53

Their depth has the likes of Durotolo, what did we havr to offer. Depth is killing us, but not as much as the simple lack of hands.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:58

I guess the one positive was the Eagles did have to earn their tries mostly, nothing comically bad in the defensive department. In attack we were dire. Kicking away possession, awful hands, silly errors at the ruck.

DTH and Rumball played well, everyone else was fairly average to poor. Not subbing out a 37 year old Hooker is insane, unless Lagain has like diarrhea or something and they are afraid he'll literally shit on the field I don;t see how he could be worse than Barkwill looked at the end of the game.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Was_a_Kat » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 00:59

LittleGuy wrote:Bench all bring brought in now, bar Lagain.

Why is the 37 year old Hooker still on after 72 minutes?


Has Lagain ever been capped? Maybe he was hurt. Weird.

Too much kicking but a steadier effort.

I thought the game was very well officiated.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 01:03

For anyone that says club rugby has to suck, look at the USA team. A lot of their guys play mainly USA club or university rugby and they are big units and in shape. Just because our club rugby stinks doesn't mean that it has to. What's the US doing right?

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Suiram » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 01:08

Game stayed very close for 60 min so I don’t think Canada should feel too bad. Was very frustrated seeing th uS going 5 m backwards with every tackle. Showed some serious power from Canada. Maybe helped that you kind of played with 5 loose forwards and some very big backs. Unfortunately it also looked like they got gassed and didn’t convert enough of their attacks earlier.

US also had the advantage of keeping their full squad for this game. Whereas probably Canada had to release more guys to their clubs because or the extra WC qualifier. US has never had this much quality depth. Durutalo and Landry are both arguably no step down from the starters. Davies and Hooley would not look out of place starting either. And hilterbrand is a 2nd tier pro in Aus. Really only our two props are a clear step down and they were still serviceable.

Really can’t complain and hope we can continue to build that depth since that has often been the difference against higher ranked competition in the past.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 01:38

Well 8 of their guys play MLR, 6 are professionals, 1 plays true club rugby in New York. Some of those MLR players have played pro before, Cam Dolan for example.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 01:42

So for the next game we lose even more guys back to their clubs, out of today's side, DTH, Ilnicki, O'Leary, Duru, Heaton and Larsen all leave?

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:20

ruckovercdn wrote:Well 8 of their guys play MLR, 6 are professionals, 1 plays true club rugby in New York. Some of those MLR players have played pro before, Cam Dolan for example.


MLR hasn't even started yet though right? And PRO was only around for a small period.

Obviously professional is better, but teams like Old Blue, Glendale, Golden Gate, Austin etc... are at least attracting super athletic players and training them to a fairly high level. Something we aren't doing much of, with a few exceptions.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Coloradoan » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:22

Suiram wrote:Game stayed very close for 60 min so I don’t think Canada should feel too bad. Was very frustrated seeing th uS going 5 m backwards with every tackle. Showed some serious power from Canada. Maybe helped that you kind of played with 5 loose forwards and some very big backs. Unfortunately it also looked like they got gassed and didn’t convert enough of their attacks earlier.


Certainly we had some good firepower off the bench, but the biggest thing in getting go forward in the last 20 was having Davies at scrumhalf. Augspurger had a great moment of brilliance for that first try that no other US scrumhalf would score, but a lot of his passes were inaccurate which made it hard for the forwards, in particular, to get over the gainline. When Davies came on, there was a noticeable difference in the accuracy of the passes, as well as a little bit more zip on the ball. Thought Hooley had a good game. Maybe it doesn't matter against Chile, but I'd like to see Davies and Hooley start in South America.

US also had the advantage of keeping their full squad for this game. Whereas probably Canada had to release more guys to their clubs because or the extra WC qualifier. US has never had this much quality depth. Durutalo and Landry are both arguably no step down from the starters. Davies and Hooley would not look out of place starting either. And hilterbrand is a 2nd tier pro in Aus. Really only our two props are a clear step down and they were still serviceable.

Really can’t complain and hope we can continue to build that depth since that has often been the difference against higher ranked competition in the past.


Landry was outstanding. He had one absolutely ridiculous take off a kickoff I think that really made you appreciate his athleticism and perhaps why he took a shot at the NFL as a tight end. Brakeley didn't have a bad game, but I thought Landry had a much bigger impact. Hard to fault the composition of the back row. Durutalo was outstanding when he came on, but the starters all had good games, Dolan in particular.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:29

As an example, look at this game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlxQYP6iE5U.

Obviously it's the finals, but if I am not mistaken, this is mostly amateur rugby. But it looks and feels professional. Even the video is professional looking. All the players look fit. If I was a top football player or whatever I'd consider being a part of this.

Compare that to the McCormick Cup final: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLrYpWVOW0g. It's in a cornfield, half the players look out of shape, the video is identical to what you get for local high school girls volleyball and you'd think it is a beer league final. Nope. That's the highest level of club rugby in Ontario. Some of the players don't even have matching shorts!! You think that Haco guy or Mike Teo are going to want to be a part of this to work their way up the chain? I don't.
Last edited by marvinparsons on Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:38

marvinparsons wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:Well 8 of their guys play MLR, 6 are professionals, 1 plays true club rugby in New York. Some of those MLR players have played pro before, Cam Dolan for example.


MLR hasn't even started yet though right? And PRO was only around for a small period.

Obviously professional is better, but teams like Old Blue, Glendale, Golden Gate, Austin etc... are at least attracting super athletic players and training them to a fairly high level. Something we aren't doing much of, with a few exceptions.



No but i think the daily training environment is playing dividends, and it really shows when Canada cant keep up to USA or Uruguay after 30 minutes.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 02:45

ruckovercdn wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:Well 8 of their guys play MLR, 6 are professionals, 1 plays true club rugby in New York. Some of those MLR players have played pro before, Cam Dolan for example.


MLR hasn't even started yet though right? And PRO was only around for a small period.

Obviously professional is better, but teams like Old Blue, Glendale, Golden Gate, Austin etc... are at least attracting super athletic players and training them to a fairly high level. Something we aren't doing much of, with a few exceptions.



No but i think the daily training environment is playing dividends, and it really shows when Canada cant keep up to USA or Uruguay after 30 minutes.


The level below major league rugby is providing well trained and athletic specimens. You didn't need to know a thing about rugby to know which team was going to win this game - just look at them. My girlfriend was matching with me and looked at their tank of a hooker and then Barkwill. Then Mike Teo compared to Parfrey. She doesn't know rugby, but pretty easy to draw a conclusion.

Same goes for the rest of the roster: Du Toit, Blevins, Parfrey, Barkwill, the #8, Heaton, Rumball, the entire bench etc. They simply aren't good enough athletes to win rugby games at this level, no matter how much training or fitness they receive.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 03:05

Honestly we arent getting our best on this squad. Why isnt Matt Tierni in this side? Hes been playing well at Pau and then didn't bring him over. Eric Howard is anither prime example.

One thing abouy the US is that the clubs are way more ambitious: PRP, ARP, MLR. All club driven. Some one correct me if im wrong but i think a lot of it stems from having lots of single team clubs, so theres competitive clubs and social clubs and rarely do they meet. That forces priorities and puts the actual athletes in one place.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Suiram » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 03:08

I think even without MLR starting and only 1 season of PRO there is at least a buzz of aspirational domestic rugby. Things are happening at the top levels and therefore is competitive pressure / a reason to train. Keep in mind there are quite a few capped eagles that didn’t even make this squad. So the coaches have the opportunity to select the guys that have the best form.

To Mitchell’s credit, he may have been a bit of a shit. But he really embarrassed the fitness first approach to selection with no excuses. That had to play a part in the US improvement since 2015 with almost no games suffering late game drop off

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 03:32

Suiram wrote:I think even without MLR starting and only 1 season of PRO there is at least a buzz of aspirational domestic rugby. Things are happening at the top levels and therefore is competitive pressure / a reason to train. Keep in mind there are quite a few capped eagles that didn’t even make this squad. So the coaches have the opportunity to select the guys that have the best form.

To Mitchell’s credit, he may have been a bit of a shit. But he really embarrassed the fitness first approach to selection with no excuses. That had to play a part in the US improvement since 2015 with almost no games suffering late game drop off


I think the word aspirational is a great one in this context. The clubs are aspiring to be better, the leagues are aspiring to be better, the actual players look like they are aspiring to be as good as humanly possible. That's the way it should be. When I started playing in Canada circa 1996 that's the way it was at clubs, now they are considered a joke by everyone. People are resigned to mediocrity; partly a structural and partly a cultural problem.

Nice to see USA Rugby doing so well, but obviously a bit jealous. Hopefully we can learn something and the entire continent can be strong. The USA could easily get close to the level of a Scotland or even Wales in a decade or so if things go right with professional rugby and their feeder leagues.

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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 03:41


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Re: ARC - USA vs Canada - 10th Feb

Postby Suiram » Sun, 11 Feb 2018, 04:43

A range of random thoughts now that I’ve rewatched it without distractions.

Audsley looks comfortable out there in only his 2nd international match. He could be a big inclusion if he continues to improve. Another footballer center with the full set of skills

Augspurger makes silly tackles and it’s clear why he keeps getting chances, but I agree with colorodoan that Davies just puts out much better ball.

On Matyas first try, 15 didn’t want to even try to tackle him. Neither did 10 although I realize they both had bad angles.

Waldren got robbed on the not releasing penalty leading up to the Canada try. He got knocked on and he fell on it.

Big joe looks to have risen to another level now. Putting in massive hits and always in solid position. He is really a great hooker. Uncontested.

Hanco has really matured in the last year. He looks great at 6. And has found a balance of power and pace at his “playing weight”. Looks a little lighter. I wonder if he was too focused on bulking up before.

While Magie is a good 10 in terms of skills he is lacking a bit at this level. Hooley looks the part. Barring injuries, I would guess it’s macginty and Hooley going forward. That’s an amazing situation.

Last 15 min by Canada had some seriously unnecessary aggression. Beyond Blevins punches, multiple cheap shots on guys out of the ruck or waldren on the ground getting a palm to the temple by I think rumball. Understand they are frustrated, just makes it harder to support.

Speaking on Canadians. Staller is a solid player. Excited to see him in MLR

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