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2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby datodato » Mon, 12 Feb 2018, 22:51

Every time Geo played Rom in Romania it was a full house. Didn‘t know the population was 20 Mio... holy... other than that not everyone is keen to watch romania vs. germany b in -5 degree. And I can understand that. I bet amz was the only one there hehe!

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 08:59

datodato wrote:Every time Geo played Rom in Romania it was a full house. Didn‘t know the population was 20 Mio... holy... other than that not everyone is keen to watch romania vs. germany b in -5 degree. And I can understand that. I bet amz was the only one there hehe!


Regretfully I have to stay home this year due to a medical treatment (small chance to make it to Cluj to match vs Russia) and will also miss this year the trips to Madrid and Tbilisi with my friends. It is very frustrating, I reckon.

Back to stadiums attendances, the drop in stadium audiences is happening in all sports and except the hardcore fans who show up at football, rugby, handball, basketball or ice hockey. The mainstream public usually goes for the bling bling even and this means national football team matches (and the day after there's a big chorus of lamentations because let's face it they're atrocious and swearing that they won't go to the next match), European Cup's football matches if there's a good visiting team, big matches of CSM Bucharest women handball team (winner of Champions League) or new fashionable sport which is tennis due to Simona Halep being top 5 (and recently no.1) in WTA Circuit and a pretty good generation generally with Monica Niculescu (17th, she beat Sharapova yesterday), Begu, Carstea (around 30-40th) and Ana Bogdan. Even if Halep didn't played because she was on recuperation she was in the stands which attracted more fans and added to that it was perceived as a big sport event (match in Fed Cup, women equivalent of Davis Cup vs Canada). So probably a parent picked the choice to go indoor than keep the kid at rugby match in that cold. Timeline of REC is not good also for us and the decision to go to Cluj was due to not taking any risk of potential snow or frost in vital qualification game.

I guess one problem is the habit (as victorsa said) and another one is sport on TV which is a huge offer; there are I think at least 12 channels who broadcast sports 24/24, if not more and channels which broadcast occasionally but not specialized (as national TV these days with Olympics). And the drop in attendances started 10 - 15 years ago when the TV offer become very very diversified, it isn't new and in rugby I think is actually have a small improvement compared with the lowest period of Romanian rugby 2008 - 2011.

And let's face it, stadium attendances felt in many rugby stadiums, including T1, including much of Super Rugby ones so hardly an isolated phenomenon. Aussies had to cut one franchise ffs, who would have imagined that few years ago? It appears that poorer countries seems to have better attendances in T2 (see Madagascar or Malaysia) while in the richer countries local Unions have to deal with much stiffer competition from TV and other sports. Mind you, I am not saying FRR did good in this direction, they could have been doing better at least from marketing pov.

LE:
To develop, we all will have to cope with the new industrial revolution. First was the press which had to cut a lot of print newspapers with the rise in preeminence of Internet. Jobs are put at risks by automation and there are already debates about what jobs we'll disappear. Anyone remember how big was Kodak before digital photos? Where is now? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodak

It's normal that sports are and will be affected by these changes in our societies and will have to find new business models and markets, this is why Pro 14 is looking to North America and took the two Saffa franchises on board. In T2 is even worse because all are fragile, except maybe Japan. Imagine for a while Georgian rugby without the financing from Cartu Group. What if something is happening as in Germany with Wild who pretty much supported rugby for last 10 years if not more. Canada still have to find a way to deal with its own local issues and shortcomings (one missed quali and they have to deal with a big financial hole) , same for US. Fiji and Tonga are rising due to the fact that they have WR back up which of course imposed some standards but look at Samoa. Spain was about to be bankrupt and was saved by WR. Russia have to deal with the calendar, local weather and having its rugby core in Asia not in Europe. Inept economical policies of Romanian government and fiscal chaos may hurt Romanian rugby in near future as well and is a factor totally independent from rugby which may hurt entire Romanian sport.

Now let's look to whom short sighted people as 4N blame, teams as Italy. What makes Italy T1? A good financial recipe which allow them to finance the system without much stress. Do they lack results? Yes and no, they have an occasional big win and generally can compete. One bad generation or change of generations shouldn't be the factor to decide to kick them out. But they weren't all the time wooden spoon. Even France or Wales had this "trophy" and Scotland 4 times . Compared with other T2 sides and despite lesser connections to Anglo world they did well in building a system which resembles much more with the systems from T1 countries. Who were next to join the club? Argentina and Japan (for now not formally), each one with their own peculiarities they need to overcome. Argentina did it despite not having a local pro competition but they managed to prepare their players at pro standards using each opportunity (joining Currie Cup, playing Nations Cup - many Puma featured in NC and now Jaguares, Argentina XV). Japan was able to overcome its local conditions and isolation with a strong local championship but until they hired a high profile coach and somehow got over the local constraints still with the huge financial power they still had administrative hiccups in establishing the first SR franchise. Where are Georgia and Romania now? Each is trying to build up a system considering each one strong and weak points which I remember we discussed. But no, let's judge success based on odd attendance numbers and kick them out because I can't stand their yellow shirts.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby Silver Fox » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 11:11

I thought you were trolling before but this is a great post.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 11:26

Silver Fox wrote:I thought you were trolling before but this is a great post.


Thanks! If I am trolled I troll, if I am getting mocked I mock and if I am into a decent debate I usually manage to raise to the standard.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby Stef » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 12:14

The best part of this is that the Romanian federation will be the owner of a new modern stadium of 10 000 covered seats plus 1 hotel of 80 rooms. :thumbup:

In other terms, looking back to the team that won against Spain in Bucarest last year, we will have 8 changes in the first XV and 4 changes on the bench. And if I counted correctly Spain will probably have 10 changes in the 23. It will be definitively a different game to watch.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby 4N » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 13:09

Italy got into the 6N because of Diego Dominguez and the size of their economy. Their financial recipe is playing in the 6N. Basically once they got in they pulled the ladder up behind them and didn't do much to help T2s, and arguably hurt the ambitions of T2s with their lack of improvement due to no clear vision from their union (see failed Praetorians franchise, Aironi folding, Zebre chaos).

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 13:19

4N wrote:Italy got into the 6N because of Diego Dominguez and the size of their economy. Their financial recipe is playing in the 6N. Basically once they got in they pulled the ladder up behind them and didn't do much to help T2s, and arguably hurt the ambitions of T2s with their lack of improvement due to no clear vision from their union (see failed Praetorians franchise, Aironi folding, Zebre chaos).


Well, you surely remember some Welsh franchises being disbanded at some point? Or a Scottish one? Or the struggle of Scottish clubs to compete? The failed Western Force franchise? Chaos in few big clubs in England? Current chaos in French rugby? Or you have eyes only for Italy and Romania?

Also FIR numbers:

Registered players 79,487 (total)
Clubs 1,024


Even if it's half, it is impossible to be financed based only on 6N.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby 4N » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 13:41

Celtic Warriors and Border were both from traditional rugby regions with small populations. They were dropped and ultimately their unions found more success in the aftermath (Scarlets winning Pro12 last year and Wales consistently a 6N power despite a small population). We will see if Italian rugby has "turned a corner" as some suggest but everything to this point has shown ineptitude and an inability to capitalize on Italy's inherent advantages (strong economy, large pool of athletes, no climate issues).

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby amz » Tue, 13 Feb 2018, 13:47

I am sure you as a prophet of doom will lurk at all corners just to come out at first hiccup to spread your false faith.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby Kiroshi » Wed, 14 Feb 2018, 19:38

4N, you are really pissed off that Romanian Rugby hasn't died, but to troll like this...

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby datodato » Sat, 17 Feb 2018, 16:20

Kiroshi wrote:4N, you are really pissed off that Romanian Rugby hasn't died, but to troll like this...

Mate, don't want to start another argument but judging by the line-up against Spain where the whole backline but two <30 year olds are imports one can make the argument that Romanian Rugby has died. That doesn't mean that I would not like to have one of your Polenesian Wingers having the name Taumalolodze, black hair and playing for us because our back three is... not as good as it should be to put it gently.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby amz » Sat, 17 Feb 2018, 16:28

@datodato, we hear this since 2011. Yet Howells played youngsters whenever the chance arised, even against strong opposition. But this is a qualification game, one cannot risk anything. Btw, nobody have a young backline in REC.

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Re: 2018 REC - Romania vs Germany - Feb 10th

Postby datodato » Sat, 17 Feb 2018, 16:45

amz wrote:@datodato, we hear this since 2011. Yet Howells played youngsters whenever the chance arised, even against strong opposition. But this is a qualification game, one cannot risk anything. Btw, nobody have a young backline in REC.


Yes, I agree. It's a tough game and must win. Let's see how they will do after the RWC19. Time will tell.

Howells is a fucking great Coach. He is awesome.

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