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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Wed, 27 Jun 2018, 21:02

I agree with the last two posts but my problem is the it will be a generation before we see the fruit of that method. I think a two pronged approach that streams exceptional athletes with potential into high performance programs can bear fruit in the near term. I realize that the challenge is finding meaningful competition that fosters development. But RC has to do something besides put on dinners and circle jerk to the good old days. The alternative is rugby oblivion for 30 years

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby cien_almas » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 00:46

Are there any Canadian qualified by nationality/grandparents Canada can push for in other countries? There have to be some players in NZ, SA, or UK at the Currie Cup-ish level who are better than some of the guys they are pushing these days. I suppose USA and Uruguay haven't really gone that route but there has to be some short term help for Canada there.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 03:32

cien_almas wrote:Are there any Canadian qualified by nationality/grandparents Canada can push for in other countries? There have to be some players in NZ, SA, or UK at the Currie Cup-ish level who are better than some of the guys they are pushing these days. I suppose USA and Uruguay haven't really gone that route but there has to be some short term help for Canada there.


Evan Olmstead, Josh Larsen, Gordon McRorie, Shane O'Leary, all already on the team. Tangential links to Canada. If they had more out there they'd use them.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 03:47

rusty_lock wrote:I agree with the last two posts but my problem is the it will be a generation before we see the fruit of that method. I think a two pronged approach that streams exceptional athletes with potential into high performance programs can bear fruit in the near term. I realize that the challenge is finding meaningful competition that fosters development. But RC has to do something besides put on dinners and circle jerk to the good old days. The alternative is rugby oblivion for 30 years


Agreed. I just think the idea that you can plow rugby players into "elite" training environments absent regular games against similarly "elite" competition is a complete fallacy and the notion that this is a sensible strategy should be dispelled. This is the CRC/Langford model and I think it's fair to say that the results are in and it is an abject failure.

To use the John Tavares analogy he spent his formative years in high level training environments, but this was probably 95% on his AAA teams/Junior teams that played other teams in his region and where 95% of the other players on the ice never went anywhere. It wasn't training by himself or 5 exhibition games with 20 other players; he probably barely had any more training than the 3rd liners on those same teams minus a few all-star games here or there.

The guys in Langford (and everyone else) would be better off if they just played regularly in the CDI or a Marshall league that was improved with the money being spent on these players/Langford/CRC. You only need 6-8 clubs per league and the travel isn't even crazy or anything. A rising tide raises all boats. A low tide sinks all ships and that's where we're at: horrible club rugby and abhorrent test rugby.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby therugbycoach » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 15:30

Canada has unique problems which im not sure the RC exec people have any ideas on...
the country is too big, the player bases are too far apart, the climate isnt right for rugby in a huge part of the country for 6 months

You can see the idea with selecting the "Best" players and dumping them away from everyone in a place where climate isnt as much of an issue... what they seem to forget that Those "Best" may not be anymore .. yet due to the club game and distances between clubs you never / well selectors dont get to see the best of the rest against each other enough to know if anyone is better that the mob they have. And the other club player may net be getting to a better standard due to knowing there is no real selection may also be a reason they never want experienced coaches only ones with level 1 papers etc.

Its good to identify youth u19 u20 etc as prospectives but they need to be playing a lot of rugby to get the skills and experience and even a real love of rugby. Many will lose drive when serious GFs and work / school interests take hold and then of course if they arent rich enough to pay their own way

Mind you saying this i think even with a lot of National team being involved with MLR or in Europe / UK they would be better Most look a lot better in there games away from Canadian national team that they ever do playing in it

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 17:33

therugbycoach wrote:Canada has unique problems which im not sure the RC exec people have any ideas on...
the country is too big, the player bases are too far apart, the climate isnt right for rugby in a huge part of the country for 6 months

You can see the idea with selecting the "Best" players and dumping them away from everyone in a place where climate isnt as much of an issue... what they seem to forget that Those "Best" may not be anymore .. yet due to the club game and distances between clubs you never / well selectors dont get to see the best of the rest against each other enough to know if anyone is better that the mob they have. And the other club player may net be getting to a better standard due to knowing there is no real selection may also be a reason they never want experienced coaches only ones with level 1 papers etc.

Its good to identify youth u19 u20 etc as prospectives but they need to be playing a lot of rugby to get the skills and experience and even a real love of rugby. Many will lose drive when serious GFs and work / school interests take hold and then of course if they arent rich enough to pay their own way

Mind you saying this i think even with a lot of National team being involved with MLR or in Europe / UK they would be better Most look a lot better in there games away from Canadian national team that they ever do playing in it


Couple of issues with current Rugby Canada rules. Players should be able to choose their club. So Rugby Canada has a centralized group training at Langford that then goes off to train with their clubs in the CDI BC Premier League. When Barkwill wasn't on the Seawolves as one of the most Senior Canadian players he chose not to be selected over some of the younger national team players in his club. RC only allowed 5 Capped players to named per match 23. So then you have 6-7 National Team Player pool guys in a club and only five will get 1st team match time during that week. So I suppose you could allocate the players out, or you could just let them join a club of their choosing and not worry about it.

Well the issue gets compounded when you remove your national team player pool from competition, you could say this is because HP department doesn't regard the level of competition as high enough. But that level of competition is still higher than what the 25 guys in the training group get because it is live match time against an opponent wanting to win. Whereas the Central training group is just training and going up against themselves and no one else.

Uruguayan National team players once selected all move to Monte Video if they aren't already in Monte Video and join a club there. So the players are centralized and it raises the level of competition within that league. For years RC told players to move from wherever they were if they wanted a shot. The pay was shit but good men like Johnny Moonlight and his brother moved to BC to do just that. If RC had the money, or not even the money. Just get a partnership with a University in Ontario to make that the Eastern High Performance Center and designate the Ontario League as another place for National Pool players to play.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 02:51

Saw this job advert for a Chief Operating Officer. Is someone currently in this role or is this added management?

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/chie ... 732080387/

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 15:21

Looks like it was previously held by Myles Spencer.

According to this article, Spencer was fired at the same time as Jim Dixon (Nov 2017)
http://theprovince.com/sports/rugby/rug ... t-shake-up

But according to his LinkedIn, he's been the COO until April 2018.
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/myles-spencer-70951789

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Fri, 29 Jun 2018, 15:31

I don't remember this summer's CRC season mentioned here, so I'll post it.

Exhibition matches

July 26: Cork (IRE) vs The Rock (Swilers)

CRC Round Robin

July 27: Bears vs Wolfpack (Calgary Rugby Park)
Aug 3: Wolfpack vs Bears (UBC)
Aug 4: Blues vs Rock (TBA)
Aug 7: Rock vs Blues (TBA)

CRC Finals

Aug 23: West 1 vs East 2 and East 1 vs West 2 (Calgary Rugby Park)
Aug 26: 3rd Place & Finals (Calgary Rugby Park)

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Fri, 13 Jul 2018, 17:23

Look at that, the plan forward. Not too sure i agree with the 2 months of training at langford. Why not tour the provinces to play, sure its not a high standard of rugby but its more training as a team which would benefit them.


https://rugby.ca/en/news/2018/07/canada ... -repechage

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadaman » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 16:25

There will be a major announcement by the Ontario Arrows at 2 pm today. Hmmm.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 18:13

Ontario Arrows have exclusive rights and intend to enter a team in 2019. Shocking everyone lol.

I kid though, this is actually a huge step and I'm very curious to see what will happen with guys who have been playing bit roles in Europe, such as DSD.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 18:39

Exciting news! Fingers crossed they play in a more accessible stadium next year, but even if they don't, I'm looking forward to it.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Suiram » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 21:08

Congrats guys. Cant wait to see the roster get confirmed for the season. Wonder how much it will stay consistent with this year or if they will sign up some bigger names (or some of the Seattle guys?).

Hassler is still floating around right...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Mon, 16 Jul 2018, 22:49

Suiram wrote:Congrats guys. Cant wait to see the roster get confirmed for the season. Wonder how much it will stay consistent with this year or if they will sign up some bigger names (or some of the Seattle guys?).

Hassler is still floating around right...


The Seattle Canadians are almost all BC boys. Even Barkwill has been living out there for years despite repping Ontario. Makes more sense for them to stick with Seattle if they’re wanted and able than jump across the continent. And more sense for Canada as we need as many pros as possible. I suspect we’ll see guys from other parts of Canada joining up like in the exhibition season with the focus being mostly on Ontario lads. Maybe some imports as well to bolster the squad. Either way it’s exiting news for Canadian rugby and its supporters. Hopefully Vancouver can start up an exhibition season like the Arrows did and be ready for 2020. Though I feel the BC clubs will revolt at the suggestion of losing more players when they still view themselves as the big dogs of North America.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 17 Jul 2018, 00:39

Don't see Barkwill leaving the PNW unless it's to retire.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 17 Jul 2018, 11:24

I've been skeptical of the Arrows but I'm going to park that skepticism and give credit where credit is due. It's going to be nice to see Toronto take its proper place as Rugby Centre of Excellence for this country with the Wolfpack and Arrows both running professional squads.

Btw, Wolfpack just won the Championship Shield and are going to be in the Super 8's for promotion to the top division next season.

Some cracking games coming up with most likely the following teams playing Toronto at home in August and September:

Toulouse Olympique
Widnes Vikings
Salford Red Devils
Leigh Centurions or Featherstone Rovers

They will most likely play away to

Leeds Rhinos
Hull KR
Halifax RLFC

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 17 Jul 2018, 15:29

And there's talk that they do not get promoted...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 00:56

TheStroBro wrote:Don't see Barkwill leaving the PNW unless it's to retire.



Which is soon i hope..

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 23 Jul 2018, 01:04

Canadian_Rugger wrote:I've been skeptical of the Arrows but I'm going to park that skepticism and give credit where credit is due. It's going to be nice to see Toronto take its proper place as Rugby Centre of Excellence for this country with the Wolfpack and Arrows both running professional squads.

Btw, Wolfpack just won the Championship Shield and are going to be in the Super 8's for promotion to the top division next season.

Some cracking games coming up with most likely the following teams playing Toronto at home in August and September:

Toulouse Olympique
Widnes Vikings
Salford Red Devils
Leigh Centurions or Featherstone Rovers

They will most likely play away to

Leeds Rhinos
Hull KR
Halifax RLFC


Wolfpack isn't Rugby it's League, Two different sports. and they only have one Canadian playing for them, so they are hardly the centre of Rugby or League in the country. BC has the centre, but the Canadian rugby centre is the hardly excellence of Rugby. We have a long way to go to become anything in rugby other then a laughing stock.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby therugbycoach » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 02:37

We have a long way to go to become anything in rugby other then a laughing stock.


Sadly the 7s which was a brighter point for Canada seems to have stalled since the Center of Excellence , and Elite Programs all spung up.

The 15s womens team was also good but i have seen nothing mentioned about them since they threw a heap of novice new girls, at the full English team , that was a while back.
I did watch some u19 boys and u20 girls playing in the wind at Saskatchewan at the weekend and The girls looked head and shoulders more skilled and had better understanding of Laws and Rugby in general than the Boys.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 11:32

snapper37 wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:I've been skeptical of the Arrows but I'm going to park that skepticism and give credit where credit is due. It's going to be nice to see Toronto take its proper place as Rugby Centre of Excellence for this country with the Wolfpack and Arrows both running professional squads.

Btw, Wolfpack just won the Championship Shield and are going to be in the Super 8's for promotion to the top division next season.

Some cracking games coming up with most likely the following teams playing Toronto at home in August and September:

Toulouse Olympique
Widnes Vikings
Salford Red Devils
Leigh Centurions or Featherstone Rovers

They will most likely play away to

Leeds Rhinos
Hull KR
Halifax RLFC


Wolfpack isn't Rugby it's League, Two different sports. and they only have one Canadian playing for them, so they are hardly the centre of Rugby or League in the country. BC has the centre, but the Canadian rugby centre is the hardly excellence of Rugby. We have a long way to go to become anything in rugby other then a laughing stock.


League is Rugby, just a different version. Also the TWP have been working with the ORU so their existence can only benefit both codes. Toronto will be the centre of rugby in this country. Two professional sides next year. Market forces are going to finally affect the Rugby Canada/BCRU cartel.

Sevens has to be the crappiest variant sport out there. It's terrible, It's League without the big hits or crisp passing. I love XVs but would much rather watch League over Sevens anyday.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 11:48

therugbycoach wrote:
We have a long way to go to become anything in rugby other then a laughing stock.


Sadly the 7s which was a brighter point for Canada seems to have stalled since the Center of Excellence , and Elite Programs all spung up.

The 15s womens team was also good but i have seen nothing mentioned about them since they threw a heap of novice new girls, at the full English team , that was a while back.
I did watch some u19 boys and u20 girls playing in the wind at Saskatchewan at the weekend and The girls looked head and shoulders more skilled and had better understanding of Laws and Rugby in general than the Boys.



I guess it depends on which games you watched, but having checked out a bunch of women's U20s and senior matches, I was not impressed at all. I've been coaching women for years and keep a close eye on things. I think the quality in general has dipped in the last few years. Far too much structure and skills are sorely lacking. Lots of wayward passes. Lots of one-out crash balls. Individuals with talent do break out, but it's often by a defensive error rather than by design.

I also watch some of the English Premiership and occasionally discuss women's rugby with a coach over there who's well informed. We both think, after sharing notes from the CRC streams, that England will whitewash this upcoming U20 series.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 12:07

Used2BwithIt wrote:
therugbycoach wrote:
We have a long way to go to become anything in rugby other then a laughing stock.


Sadly the 7s which was a brighter point for Canada seems to have stalled since the Center of Excellence , and Elite Programs all spung up.

The 15s womens team was also good but i have seen nothing mentioned about them since they threw a heap of novice new girls, at the full English team , that was a while back.
I did watch some u19 boys and u20 girls playing in the wind at Saskatchewan at the weekend and The girls looked head and shoulders more skilled and had better understanding of Laws and Rugby in general than the Boys.



I guess it depends on which games you watched, but having checked out a bunch of women's U20s and senior matches, I was not impressed at all. I've been coaching women for years and keep a close eye on things. I think the quality in general has dipped in the last few years. Far too much structure and skills are sorely lacking. Lots of wayward passes. Lots of one-out crash balls. Individuals with talent do break out, but it's often by a defensive error rather than by design.

I also watch some of the English Premiership and occasionally discuss women's rugby with a coach over there who's well informed. We both think, after sharing notes from the CRC streams, that England will whitewash this upcoming U20 series.


I've coached women before and I personally find it very frustrating. From what I've seen watching and coaching women's club rugby, especially juniors, most don't give a toss about learning the finer points of the game but for the very few that do, they absolutely dominate.

You'll usually end up with one or two girls on a team that absolutely dust everyone else because they are the only ones that are actual students of the sport.

The same holds true in other sports like ice hockey. I'm an ice hockey coach as well and coaching girls is painful. Which is why I'm not coaching women anymore, just personal preference but I find it downright painful sometimes.

I think a large part of the problem is many women are inherently less competitive than men. Maybe that's just me being sexist though?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 24 Jul 2018, 15:49

Many women's teams here (Ottawa) play better rugby than the men. They tend to be more motivated as there's a clearer pathway to the national team and the sport's taken more seriously as a result. They also have local uni teams and the men don't. IMO women follow direction better and are more focused/less ego. Rugby seems to attract girls that are legit good at other sports, men get the dregs.

In all women's sports single girls dominate as there is typically a bigger disparity in athleticism between the best and the rest, for whatever reason.

You can play good rugby in girls and be better in 14 of 15 positions, but if the other team has a burner you can still lose. Not so in mens.

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