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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 04:08

Was_a_Kat wrote:
LittleGuy wrote:What on earth has happened to the basic defensive structure? The tackling is wet paper bag levels. Look at the points we've conceded in the last while.

Uruguay - 32
Uruguay - 38
Fiji - 57
Spain - 27
Georgia - 54
Maori - 51
United States - 52
United States - 28
Romania - 25

We have to go back to the Georgia game played in those horrendous conditions in Calgary to see a game where we gave up less than 25 points. These aren't even amazing sides either, like yes the Maori when interested can run up the score, and sometimes Fiji can get moving but giving up over 50 to the States and Georgia?


Part of it is certainly defence, but also an inability to control possession.

We are also weak at poaching, so we lose the possession battle. Having a 9 who likes to kick and take blindside risks doesn’t help.

We also seem to have runners regularly take the ball standing still. Honest question - are they coached that way now?




We have a coaching style that includes not counter rucking, no defensive line out competition, not taking the ball at pace and we encourage props to side step guys instead of steam rolling them. We don't have an identity other then being soft on 'D".

I like Mack as he is more fluid in his movements then McRorie (slow and robotic). Going forward i better see handfuls of U20's players playing in the ARC... New Halfback (to takeover for Mack), new hooker, and a busy Flanker. I watched the JBAA Castaway game yesterday and there was a Flanker playing for JBAA that intrigued me. I believe he is from Nova Scotia (Mohammed ??)(originally from Eygpt) he looked very handy possible Hooker convert? Anybody know him?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 13:52

LittleGuy wrote:What on earth has happened to the basic defensive structure? The tackling is wet paper bag levels. Look at the points we've conceded in the last while.

Uruguay - 32
Uruguay - 38
Fiji - 57
Spain - 27
Georgia - 54
Maori - 51
United States - 52
United States - 28
Romania - 25

We have to go back to the Georgia game played in those horrendous conditions in Calgary to see a game where we gave up less than 25 points. These aren't even amazing sides either, like yes the Maori when interested can run up the score, and sometimes Fiji can get moving but giving up over 50 to the States and Georgia?


I don't have the stats, but we seem to turn the ball over A LOT, which kills us for territory or leads to points. Also have a poor kicking game so when we get stuck after multiple phases it's going to be knock on or a poor kick.

When it comes to defense we have very few good tacklers, which I attribute mainly to the guys just not being great athletes. Many of the team are lumbering (i.e. slow) including Barkwill, all props not DSD, Beukeboom, Rumball, even Olmstead and Ardron to a lesser degree. Heaton/Larson are about the only two forwards at all quick for their position and Heaton is a bit undersized.

In the backs Blevins/Parfrey are also slugs while nearly everyone else save Staller/DTH is undersized.

Barkwill for example dives at ankles but goes backwards in nearly every contact. Beukeboom gets chopped like a tree the first guy that hits him.

It just comes down to not having good enough players. I don't see how a coach could get them to better results, there just isn't enough talent.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 18:51

I just rewatched the first game. Canada has been playing a 1-3-3-1 attacking system. The problem is our forwards handle the ball too much and they aren't skilled enough to execute the game plan they are trying to play. We also turn the ball over because when we do finally spin the ball wide, there is no support to ruck for whatever reason. I don't know how many times I watched the ball get spun out wide and the flanker and centre were nowhere to be found at the breakdown when either DTH or Paris or Hassler took it in. Another thing I don't like is that Canada seems to like to run their two pods of 3 off the 9 back to back. I think I saw them do it all game where Mack would distribute to the 1st pod of 3 and then do the exact same thing with the next pod. I would rather see the second ball go to the 10 who is given the choice of hitting that second pod of forwards running a line or distributing directly to the back line and flowing wide.

Uruguay played a 4-4 system but their forwards were taking the ball at speed and they usually always had 3 forwards to ruck. There forwards were breaking the gain line every time they touched the ball and were taking it at pace unlike our team. There attacking pattern was pretty straight forward, take the ball in twice with two 4 man pods, on the 3rd phase of that sequence, give the ball to the backs and let them have a go flowing back across the field or alternatively let the forwards have another bosh up the blindside of the attack. The ironic things is it was way less predictable than our 1-3-3-1 system which looked so friggin predictable and telegraphed.

When we have dangerous strike runners like DTH, Hassler, Paris and Lloyd I have no idea why we would even play a 1-3-3-1 as the ball takes too long to get from side to side. I personally think we would be better served playing a traditional 4-4 or even a 2-4-2 (although I would question whether we have the skill to do this ala the Crusaders/All Blacks) but the 1-3-3-1 does not play to our strengths and it also doesn't take in to account our weaknesses (the forward pack and a competent 10).

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 20:01

Nice breakdown, but 4-4 or 1-3-3-1 I don't think our forwards are likely to make much ground. I mean how can you win with forwards that go backwardd and no 9 or 10? It's impossible to gameplan around that.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 20:10

The lack of a 10 is the biggest issue. I feel like if we went to a 4-4, the forwards would at least start being forwards again and they would have to run on to the ball instead of trying to get themselves in to their pods half the time with Barkwill and co pretending they are centres. Uruguay benefit immensely from Ormachea and Berchesi who do great jobs Marshalling their forwards and backs and directing the attack.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Mon, 05 Feb 2018, 21:46

We seem to lack punishing runners in the forwards. We also seem to have guys hanging out looking for ball too often. Buydens and Barkwill should be last options to take the ball up.

I see on BCRN that Dala is playing hooker in BC. Is he a candidate to play there internationally?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadaman » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 00:55

Dala should have been playing hooker 10 years ago, he would be perfect for that position, now he is 33.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 01:13

If we want our forwards to hang on the wing, then we should select based on that. Cjevanovic would be ideal innthat role, Olmstead is more of a hard hitting grinding style lock and shouldnt be exoected to play as wide.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 01:39

ruckovercdn wrote:If we want our forwards to hang on the wing, then we should select based on that. Cjevanovic would be ideal innthat role, Olmstead is more of a hard hitting grinding style lock and shouldnt be exoected to play as wide.


I don't get why Cejanovic didn't get more burn as he's the best ball runner on a team that's lacking in that department. That's my biggest WTF coaching move...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 13:44

ruckovercdn wrote:If we want our forwards to hang on the wing, then we should select based on that. Cjevanovic would be ideal innthat role, Olmstead is more of a hard hitting grinding style lock and shouldnt be exoected to play as wide.


I just don't think our attacking strategy works that well for us and we leak possession because of it. The 1-3-3-1 works well for Australia because they have world class flankers like Michael Hooper and David Pocock who are rucking machines. They've also got a world class flyhalf in Bernard Foley whose kicking game is ok but distribution is second to none.

We've been playing this style since before RWC 2015 and it's done nothing for us. I'd like to see us play more traditionally.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 06 Feb 2018, 23:20

Canadian_Rugger wrote:I just rewatched the first game. Canada has been playing a 1-3-3-1 attacking system.


Canada should probably run a 2-4-2. 1-3-3-1 to effectively run well requires massive forwards, that's why South Africa used to be so adept at it. It can be easily defended against if you don't have big, fast, and skillful forwards.

All Blacks run a 1-6-1 and their look is very situational. The offense itself is probably one of the most complicated out there, I'm trying to get a coach from Canterbury to talk about it on the technical series we're doing. 1-3-2-2 is fascinating...but that sounds WILD.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Wed, 07 Feb 2018, 00:09

Canterbury is the inventor of the 2 4 4 2 and has probably been using it longer than anyone.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 00:03

I have been informed that rugby league discussion is no longer welcome in this thread. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware, as I was not.
Norfolk Harvesters RFC 10-0-0 NRU "B" Division Champions

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 00:25

jonny24 wrote:I have been informed that rugby league discussion is no longer welcome in this thread. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware, as I was not.


Says who? Rugby Canada? :lol:

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 00:35

Canadian_Rugger wrote:
jonny24 wrote:I have been informed that rugby league discussion is no longer welcome in this thread. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware, as I was not.


Says who? Rugby Canada? :lol:


:lol: :thumbup:

Does someone from the office send private messages regarding your negative posts like they did on the old Canadian Rugby forum?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby cien_almas » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 00:58

There's rumours that the regional/city rugby unions are pushing to return to the Super League format. Too little too late with MLR coming for BC and Ontario? There's no real organization.

Part of the Prairie Wolf Pack season this year will be going down to Utah to play the MLR team in an exhibition game, probably in April.

The Prairie region is going to play a city round robin - Calgary/Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Manitoba, not sure if both Regina and Saskatoon or combined. I don't think they know yet.

All this interesting and positive news, but I can also state that the Wolf Pack is purposely trying to avoid bringing in new players who aren't already in their system and it's the same 'elite' group running it.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 05:16

cien_almas wrote:There's rumours that the regional/city rugby unions are pushing to return to the Super League format. Too little too late with MLR coming for BC and Ontario? There's no real organization.

Part of the Prairie Wolf Pack season this year will be going down to Utah to play the MLR team in an exhibition game, probably in April.

The Prairie region is going to play a city round robin - Calgary/Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Manitoba, not sure if both Regina and Saskatoon or combined. I don't think they know yet.

All this interesting and positive news, but I can also state that the Wolf Pack is purposely trying to avoid bringing in new players who aren't already in their system and it's the same 'elite' group running it.




Make it a U23 league and then you have something...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 05:19

jonny24 wrote:I have been informed that rugby league discussion is no longer welcome in this thread. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware, as I was not.



Ya it isn't,, Super easy for you League fans to start your own thread.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 11:18

snapper37 wrote:
jonny24 wrote:I have been informed that rugby league discussion is no longer welcome in this thread. I wanted to make sure everyone was aware, as I was not.



Ya it isn't,, Super easy for you League fans to start your own thread.


Cool your jets Gareth Rees :lol:

cien_almas wrote:There's rumours that the regional/city rugby unions are pushing to return to the Super League format. Too little too late with MLR coming for BC and Ontario? There's no real organization.

Part of the Prairie Wolf Pack season this year will be going down to Utah to play the MLR team in an exhibition game, probably in April.

The Prairie region is going to play a city round robin - Calgary/Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Manitoba, not sure if both Regina and Saskatoon or combined. I don't think they know yet.

All this interesting and positive news, but I can also state that the Wolf Pack is purposely trying to avoid bringing in new players who aren't already in their system and it's the same 'elite' group running it.


Super League was super amateur and the game has moved past it. Bringing it back as some sort of top tier would be stupid. The way forward is through franchises involved in an American League. I want the governing body nowhere near the professional game.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 13:57

snapper37 wrote:
cien_almas wrote:There's rumours that the regional/city rugby unions are pushing to return to the Super League format. Too little too late with MLR coming for BC and Ontario? There's no real organization.

Part of the Prairie Wolf Pack season this year will be going down to Utah to play the MLR team in an exhibition game, probably in April.

The Prairie region is going to play a city round robin - Calgary/Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Manitoba, not sure if both Regina and Saskatoon or combined. I don't think they know yet.

All this interesting and positive news, but I can also state that the Wolf Pack is purposely trying to avoid bringing in new players who aren't already in their system and it's the same 'elite' group running it.




Make it a U23 league and then you have something...


We alreay have provincual and sub union rep rugby at u 21 level and down. If your 22 and cant play with older men at rep youre likely not going to be at any point in your career. This was specifically designed to increase the amount of senior men playing a level up from club.

The CRC should get dumped, weve been tanking since its inception and its current form is a joke. A national club tournament would be ideal but its likely too expensive, so lets put that money towards subsidized or free coach training. Especially for highschool and age grade coaches.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 14:54

ruckovercdn wrote:
A national club tournament would be ideal but its likely too expensive, so lets put that money towards subsidized or free coach training. Especially for highschool and age grade coaches.


Agreed! Let's cut out the bragging rights tournament for players already past-it or on the radar.

More than subsidized or free coach training, lets get some good and knowledgeable people going through the communities to deliver that knowledge for free to schools and clubs (especially ones that are still drilling kids in things and as was done in the 90s). I think it'd create stronger regional competitions with talent shoving their hands up for selection over time, rather than largely focusing putting the 'best' (who can pay for it) against same from other parts of Canada, and hoping they turn into 'World Class' rugby players.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 15:33

The only person who was throwing a visible fit about League was snapper. I say since this is the Canadian rugby thread and the majority of posters seemed to have no problem with League stuff being posted then we should allow it. A lot of League players and fans in Canada are union guys as well so get off the high horse. Canada is a democracy and so should our thread be.

The way forward is definitely with a system like MLR. Though a league like the Super League just below it could be a crucial part of the ladder if they find proper funding. Getting the figurative best club players in different Unions playing each other could be useful for identifying talent since Rugby Canada staff have no desire to venture outside Victoria to see what the country has to offer at the regional level.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby 4N » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 15:37

Yeah I don't see why RL can't be discussed here.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby iul » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 15:47

It's a rugby union forum not a league one.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 08 Feb 2018, 16:04

ruckovercdn wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
cien_almas wrote:There's rumours that the regional/city rugby unions are pushing to return to the Super League format. Too little too late with MLR coming for BC and Ontario? There's no real organization.

Part of the Prairie Wolf Pack season this year will be going down to Utah to play the MLR team in an exhibition game, probably in April.

The Prairie region is going to play a city round robin - Calgary/Edmonton/Saskatchewan/Manitoba, not sure if both Regina and Saskatoon or combined. I don't think they know yet.

All this interesting and positive news, but I can also state that the Wolf Pack is purposely trying to avoid bringing in new players who aren't already in their system and it's the same 'elite' group running it.




Make it a U23 league and then you have something...


We alreay have provincual and sub union rep rugby at u 21 level and down. If your 22 and cant play with older men at rep youre likely not going to be at any point in your career. This was specifically designed to increase the amount of senior men playing a level up from club.

The CRC should get dumped, weve been tanking since its inception and its current form is a joke. A national club tournament would be ideal but its likely too expensive, so lets put that money towards subsidized or free coach training. Especially for high school and age grade coaches.


Our players are light years behind other countries in terms of age vs experience. You can't equate the two. We have players trying to playing national Rugby that have the Rugby IQ of Teenagers in Rugby dominate countries. They need more competition against peers to develop skills and game sense and maturity..

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