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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Wed, 08 Mar 2017, 23:17

It's mostly the location frankly. I accept that it needs to exist, but it's a relatively difficult to get to place, and National Men's camps are often just held and Shawnigan Lake School anyways, so what's the point in that really? I would have rather seen us do what the Vancouver Whitecaps did and forge a link with a University to establish a training camp type set up that would take advantage of existing infrastructure. For example Rugby Canada could have formed a partnership with UVic or UBC that would have granted access to practice facilities in exchange for capital investment.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Wed, 08 Mar 2017, 23:57

It's just absurd to me that more than half the country lives in the Windsor-Montreal corridor, and Rugby Canada has decided to place its training centre literally as far away from it as possible.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 02:18

grande wrote:It's just absurd to me that more than half the country lives in the Windsor-Montreal corridor, and Rugby Canada has decided to place its training centre literally as far away from it as possible.


And even if climate was the original reason - fair point - the surface at Westhills is field turf. There are indoor field turf bubbles all over Ontario now. It'd also be easier for people to get work ... pretty much anywhere (bar the Maritimes?)... outside Victoria. Not cheap to live in Vancouver.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 02:40

Used2BwithIt wrote:
grande wrote:It's just absurd to me that more than half the country lives in the Windsor-Montreal corridor, and Rugby Canada has decided to place its training centre literally as far away from it as possible.


And even if climate was the original reason - fair point - the surface at Westhills is field turf. There are indoor field turf bubbles all over Ontario now. It'd also be easier for people to get work ... pretty much anywhere (bar the Maritimes?)... outside Victoria. Not cheap to live in Vancouver.


Royal Military College in Kingston has a full-sized indoor soccer/rugby dome with WR approved turf (2.5 million dollar price tag), two dedicated outdoor rugby pitches (one of which is natural grass and kept in pristine condition), a swimming pool, physio rooms, half a dozen fitness rooms, state of the art scrum machine, video replay room, massive weight room, cross fit centre, 200m 6 lane indoor track with field house. Not to mention you've got ample accommodations and excellent dining facilities for a team running a training camp. All the Queens University teams use the military facilities because they're better than anything their school has.

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Yep last pic is an OUA preseason game played inside the dome.

Argentina A based themselves out of the Military College when they played in the Churchill Cup a number of years ago. In fact a number of sports teams professional/amateur use military facilities to conduct training.

Ottawa Senators usually run part of their training camp out of CFB Petawawa and get put through Military style training. I put Daniel Alfredsson off the Rappel and Parachute Towers in Petawawa and also did a 13km march with the team a few years ago.



Montreal Alouettes run their pre-season training camp out of RMC St-Jean every year for three or four weeks, the facilities are better than anything they could get on civvie side and the military is more than happy to host the teams and have soldiers interact with the athletes.

Quite honestly, I've got no idea why Rugby Canada bases themselves out of Langford, it's the equivalent of investing in Beta or HDDVD when there's already ample VHS and Bluray that everyone else is already using. I've been involved with planning and executing a number of public/private partnerships, it's not complicated, they could probably make a modest investment and see big returns for a fraction of what it costs them in Langford if they were actually willing to get the heck out of BC.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 19:58

Good shout re: RMC! Surely the military would love that kind of exposure, too. I remember an article from a West Point commandant several years ago saying he liked rugby over football when it came to building teams, with more collaborative effort required in it than what's required in football.

I remember a short period when they had an Eastern Canada program like the Pac Pride. Was it there?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby north walian » Thu, 09 Mar 2017, 21:10

I see Andrew Coe is playing for the Maple Leafs. Does this mean hes lost to the xv's?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Sat, 11 Mar 2017, 18:13

Some good news: Jebb Sinclair scored for the London Irish today.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Tue, 14 Mar 2017, 14:40

Just curious if anyone has put these ideas do rugby canada?

All the talk about grassroots being left behind, why not start standing up for ourselves? First go to the clubs, then the provincial unions and complain. Then take it further.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Tue, 14 Mar 2017, 19:31

mb.rugger89 wrote:Just curious if anyone has put these ideas do rugby canada?

All the talk about grassroots being left behind, why not start standing up for ourselves? First go to the clubs, then the provincial unions and complain. Then take it further.


I was thinking the same thing. There was a flurry of activity, but I've not heard any acknowledgement of it, let alone putting anything into action.

I imagine it's going to be up to us at the grassroots level to institute the change we want to see, creating programs that have high satisfaction and retention doing our own research into 'best practice', winning things and churning out high quality players that make others take notice.

... time for some shameless self-promotion with some initiatives I'm putting forward to my club. :)

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 14 Mar 2017, 21:06

Agreed, but there is only so much you can do at the grassroots when you have so many forces, including the provincial and national unions, pitted against you.

When entire leagues are poorly administered, there is no pathway to provincial or national caps, the fees paid to the unions are high (for nothing in return) etc. people at the bottom are fighting a constant losing battle. I've known countless people who have tried to get involved and change things, but have no luck and eventually quit out of pure frustration. The sport needs all levels to be working together, it doesn't work to just tell the bottom portions to work harder in a system that doesn't work.

What will force change at the national level and provincially? No clue. Ten years ago you'd assume a RWC 0 - 4 showing, missing the Olympics in 7s, losing to Brazil and Uruguay and no longer considering the USA a winnable match would result in a thorough review and reconsideration of how the sport operates in this country. That hasn't been the case, there has just been minor tinkering. There is no rock bottom it seems.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 02:21

I've decided to get involved personally this year. I'm coaching an Under-16 club side. The club I'm a member of is ambitious and has good leadership which is not the norm from what I've seen from many Canadian clubs.

There are plenty of good players in Canada but very few elite administrators. My assistant coach is an excellent first side player but he is young and needs some leadership development. I plan to let him work the finer details of practices and focus the majority of my energy on overall direction & guidance, developing the plan for the season and ensuring we're following the player development pathway. We've got a plan that ensures U16 is developing players that can step up to our U18 side and then feed our Senior Men's squad. Our club player development pathway is paying some solid dividends for us.

In the past five years the club has gone from a third division club to playing FRQ-EORU super league and the majority of our U18 players go on to play in either OUA or OCAA varsity programs where skills are further developed. They then bring that development back to the Senior Men's side.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 05:15

The University path way in Ontario is something I'm very envious of. I will point out though that I think it's a national pattern that clubs with strong youth systems do better than those who are just focused on senior level talent. Which is good, because it should promote the right kinds of priorities.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 11:13

Ontario also has OCAA Rugby which is varsity rugby at the community college level. There are 9 College programs in Ontario and 10 university programs. All are considered full varsity.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 17:00

It's not really at the same level as OUA, with maybe a couple of exceptions. I played in 2011. With shorter programs it's harder to get the same continuity of players. Training everyday was definitely good for development, but pretty hard to fit in. Our coaches were from the local club I think.

I will say I was in great shape (for me) that year, high school in the spring, club in the summer and college in the fall. Unfortunately I'm pretty undersized for a lock and didn't really make an impact. Played about 5 minutes...
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Wed, 15 Mar 2017, 17:37

No you're right; however, there are still some good teams in the league. Also a good level for some smaller schools that wouldn't necessarily compete in OUA. Trent dropped down to OCAA for a couple of years and RMC contemplated it for a while but both fielded fairly decent teams in the OUA this year.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 19:19

This is from Jason De Vos, former Canadian soccer goal keeper. His keynote speech at the Ontario Soccer Summit pretty much sums most of what's wrong with rugby in Canada as well. https://youtu.be/OaCrdZnymRs

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Thu, 16 Mar 2017, 22:18

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/cbc-sports-tor ... -1.4027597

Toronto Wolfpack will be streaming on CBC. I'm getting tired of league always stealing a march on us.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 00:33

Wolfpack has all their games on TV and streaming; Rugby Canada has their games streaming on TSN Go where few people can see it. Embarrassing.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 04:01

CRL's website has also been updated twice in about the last year, while RC's is still from the 90's.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Fri, 17 Mar 2017, 04:13

Yup, League is honestly a more accessible game from a viewership stand point. While the break down and set piece is great and i enjoy the struggle there, it's a hard thing for people to get used to. Explaining not releasing penalties took up a lot of my time at Vancouver Sevens.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 18 Mar 2017, 19:01

ruckovercdn wrote:Yup, League is honestly a more accessible game from a viewership stand point. While the break down and set piece is great and i enjoy the struggle there, it's a hard thing for people to get used to. Explaining not releasing penalties took up a lot of my time at Vancouver Sevens.



League is also a boring game. They can have all the bling they want, at the end of the day they have a product that i believe most Union fans don't watch.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Sun, 19 Mar 2017, 02:42

Maybe not Union fans, but how about hockey and football fans? Part of the problem with Rugby Canada is that they really don't do much to grow the game or appeal to the non playing masses.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 03:35

snapper37 wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:Yup, League is honestly a more accessible game from a viewership stand point. While the break down and set piece is great and i enjoy the struggle there, it's a hard thing for people to get used to. Explaining not releasing penalties took up a lot of my time at Vancouver Sevens.



League is also a boring game. They can have all the bling they want, at the end of the day they have a product that i believe most Union fans don't watch.



Rugby types who've grown up with anti-Northern Union propaganda will say that ;) ... and I used to be one ... but when I weigh up their exciting finishes versus the endless one-out crashball and garryowen / box kicking that Union can often be (fun fact: Wales' forwards made just 55m with 74 carries versus Ireland!), I'm slowly moving toward the 'dark side'.

Trying to explain the mess that is a union ruck, compared to the simplicity of six tackles and a clear gap between attack and defence, and I wonder why League hasn't already taken off and grounded itself here?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby iul » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 06:21

Used2BwithIt wrote:
snapper37 wrote:
ruckovercdn wrote:Yup, League is honestly a more accessible game from a viewership stand point. While the break down and set piece is great and i enjoy the struggle there, it's a hard thing for people to get used to. Explaining not releasing penalties took up a lot of my time at Vancouver Sevens.



League is also a boring game. They can have all the bling they want, at the end of the day they have a product that i believe most Union fans don't watch.



Rugby types who've grown up with anti-Northern Union propaganda will say that ;) ... and I used to be one ... but when I weigh up their exciting finishes versus the endless one-out crashball and garryowen / box kicking that Union can often be (fun fact: Wales' forwards made just 55m with 74 carries versus Ireland!), I'm slowly moving toward the 'dark side'.

Trying to explain the mess that is a union ruck, compared to the simplicity of six tackles and a clear gap between attack and defence, and I wonder why League hasn't already taken off and grounded itself here?

Because it's boring. 5 drives - kick, 5 drives - kick, 5 drives - kick, 5 drives - kick, etc... There's no variety in the the way the game is played. Everyone plays in the same style.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 20 Mar 2017, 06:58

Compared the the thrilling matches we were treated to this weekend? What sports fan wouldn't want to watch the last ten minutes of Wales France, especially after the 80 minute single try affair? Now I'm a union guy through and through, but the reality is that League is much much easier to appreciate and they've tweaked the game to deliver what people want to see, which is open play.

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