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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 11:14

Suiram wrote:
Also the Ontario Arrows team seems quite exciting if we can get more sub-national team Can-Am clashes.


From a development, extended CRC-level point of view, I agree. Especially with how short the CRC has been the last few years it makes sense for these teams to try to get other competitive matches if they can.

However, if this is supposed to be a professional, commercial entity, then I feel like it was a bit of a soft, quiet launch. Unless they rebrand / relaunch when they do "go pro" or join MLR.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 12:38

Not a lot of our boys playing pro this year: http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2017/0 ... n-preview/

Also from ARN, the lineup for the Arrow game vs Glendale Merlins.

FORWARDS
Rob Brouwer (capt.), Alex Forrest, Pat Lynott, Ryan Surgenor, Eric Howard, AJ Quattrin, Paul Ciulini, Hank McQueen, Mike Sheppard, Peter Milazzo, Lucas Rumball, Marcello Wainwright, Andrew Wilson

BACKS
Andrew Ferguson, Mario van der Westhuizen, Guiseppe du Toit, Patrick Parfrey, Mitch Richardson, Josh Campbell, Kyle Lagasca, Kainoa Lloyd, Johnny Sheridan, Jon West

Why is Parfrey in an Ontario side? I thought he was NFLD?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 12:47

The release for the Arrows said it was primarily blues players, but with players from across eastern Canada.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 16:36

sammo wrote:Japan beat Canada 50-12 in the U20 world Trophy, highlights here https://www.facebook.com/worldrugby/?hc ... dE&fref=nf

CHILE JUST PUMPED US TOO. 45-28? We're done. I hope we miss the WC as that will be the only way change will come, Right now RC still think they are doing a great job. Finger pointing and blaming professionalism will only get you so far, stop whining and start fixing.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 17:04

Going 0-3 at the U20s is far worse than going 0-4 at the WC. These are weaker teams we're playing, we should be doing well here. Why did our players seem completely afraid to ruck?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 20:15

grande wrote:Going 0-3 at the U20s is far worse than going 0-4 at the WC. These are weaker teams we're playing, we should be doing well here. Why did our players seem completely afraid to ruck?


My honest guess is that everyone has been telling them they are God's gift to rugny since age 15 and they spend most their time pumping other teams and don't need to ruck to win. Combined with the usual issues of the best athletes not trying out/being selected/playing rugby in the first place.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 21:26

Canada losing to Chile in the U20s and to Uruguay and Brazil at the ARC... whatever if it was the a second Canadian squad or not, it is too many warnings tha things are going bad up there.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Wed, 06 Sep 2017, 22:32

I worry that if we miss the RWC the powers that be will just further embrace 7s and put 15s on the back burner.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 00:25

jonny24 wrote:
Suiram wrote:
Also the Ontario Arrows team seems quite exciting if we can get more sub-national team Can-Am clashes.


From a development, extended CRC-level point of view, I agree. Especially with how short the CRC has been the last few years it makes sense for these teams to try to get other competitive matches if they can.

However, if this is supposed to be a professional, commercial entity, then I feel like it was a bit of a soft, quiet launch. Unless they rebrand / relaunch when they do "go pro" or join MLR.


It essentially is a soft launch. Akin to a beta. Something like what was done with the MRC earlier in the year.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 02:11

victorsra wrote:Canada losing to Chile in the U20s and to Uruguay and Brazil at the ARC... whatever if it was the a second Canadian squad or not, it is too many warnings tha things are going bad up there.


Canada's decline has me concerned greatly.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 02:31

The problems are systemic. It will take a decade to correct if we started tomorrow. We won't so the decline will continue unabated.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 17:04

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_ ... union_team

Canada hasn't ever really been stellar at the U20 level so why did anyone really think this year would be any different. There's definitely something rotten in this country at all levels of play but it's been going on for a decade, if not more.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 18:17

The confounding thing is that nobody officially has identified the problem, let alone tried to implement fixes.

We are still a country of 35 million people with the sport played from coast to coast and a lot of infrastructure/people in place. It isn't hopless, but with inaction it is.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 07 Sep 2017, 21:34

marvinparsons wrote:The confounding thing is that nobody officially has identified the problem, let alone tried to implement fixes.

We are still a country of 35 million people with the sport played from coast to coast and a lot of infrastructure/people in place. It isn't hopless, but with inaction it is.



I'm convinced it's a grassroots issue. The quality isn't good enough and thus our 'best' are never really tested / pushed to a higher level of quality. I've seen plenty of schools roll through their respective leagues year-after-year but they don't stack up against mid-range teams from 'proper' rugby countries. It's tough to get better when your opponents allow relatively easy tries. I also think that with just a few schools dominating (i.e. having good coaches), we miss out on the 'freaks' at other schools who have the potential to be good top level players, physically, but who get discouraged by thumpings from the good schools or are deemed too 'raw' by age-grade selectors. I also feel that rugby training is stuck in the old days, frankly being quite boring compared to what else one could be doing.

In a dream world, we'd have an army of development officers in every region helping coaches get better and helping to develop raw talent. When I first heard of it, I thought Ontario's "Hub" program might be a step in the right direction, but it seems like they're still focused on a narrow group of keen kids whose parents can afford to pay for it. We need to be better at reaching everyone in all corners of the rugby-playing diaspora, and not just for the privileged in 'elite' programs but during the school season as well.

There's a phrase going around in soccer development circles that sums up my thoughts: "As many as possible, as long as possible*, in the best environment possible". (*and that doesn't mean all year, like the BC kids who do club in the fall, school in the spring and rep in the summer. That'll lead to burn-out. But a good run of games from a young age and hopefully the environment encourages them to be lifelong rugby participants in one way or others.)

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 02:09

Was_a_Kat wrote:I worry that if we miss the RWC the powers that be will just further embrace 7s and put 15s on the back burner.



If we miss the world cup the powers that be should take a long walk off a short pier....

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 12:22

The hits keep coming. From Ray Barkwill on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ray.barkwill/p ... 3847868841

Rugby in BC, Canada

Living working and training in BC for 5 years. A place I call home now.

But I can't play for CW this weekend because I'm a capped player.

There is to many guys who have made it to carding or are capped on CWs team and they only let 4 players play per team for the prems game.

[There is 5 of us on CW so one has to sit.]

So the starting National hooker for Canada can't play prems this weekend because he is the Canadian National hooker. Tell me how stupid does that sounds?

You tell me how that model works in me playing against the next up and coming kid who wants to be a hooker?
Would you rather me play against ya or the guy who is behind me?

That there is one of the biggest problems in BC and Canada. We are to worried about winning club trophies.

My back up plays ahead of me because I'm a capped player. LET IT SINK IN!!

So I can't play rugby for the Prems I have to play Division 2.

So great prep for me leading into playing Maori and Georgia against guys who are pros and go against top players in their countries regardless of there accomplishments.

So when you complain about the Canadian team not doing well, sit back and swallow that info first.
Then you can come back at me and say Are our provinces doing enough ??

Because this one isn't doing shit!

Share this and let's see if the province of BC rugby can start looking at themselves first!

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 14:48

snapper37 wrote:
Was_a_Kat wrote:I worry that if we miss the RWC the powers that be will just further embrace 7s and put 15s on the back burner.



If we miss the world cup the powers that be should take a long walk off a short pier....


It should be happening now but there seems to be zero accountability.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 16:20

grande wrote:The hits keep coming. From Ray Barkwill on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ray.barkwill/p ... 3847868841


So the starting National hooker for Canada can't play prems this weekend because he is the Canadian National hooker. Tell me how stupid does that sounds?

You tell me how that model works in me playing against the next up and coming kid who wants to be a hooker?
Would you rather me play against ya or the guy who is behind me?

That there is one of the biggest problems in BC and Canada. We are to worried about winning club trophies.





Some odd logic in that. I'm certain the guy behind him doesn't mind HIS opportunity to play at the top level in BC, rather than the guy your club brought in from another province all because they ARE worried about winning trophies.

:)

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Fri, 08 Sep 2017, 20:13

Isn't the purpose of the rule to prevent teams from loading up?

I remember when I was playing certain teams just seemed to get all the Ontario/AB imports and CCSD grads.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Sat, 09 Sep 2017, 01:31

It's still an idiotic rule to prevent the best players from playing in what's supposedly Canada's top league. I'd maybe understand it if they were foreigners, but these are Canadian capped players. They need game time. Can you imagine Richie McCaw having to sit one out for the Crusaders because Dan Carter's in the lineup and playing in a tier 2 match instead? It's moronic.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Sat, 09 Sep 2017, 14:57

Buffalo wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_national_under-20_rugby_union_team

Canada hasn't ever really been stellar at the U20 level so why did anyone really think this year would be any different. There's definitely something rotten in this country at all levels of play but it's been going on for a decade, if not more.



And that is exactly the reason why we are in the mess we are in. There hasn't been a sensible pathway through juniors to NSMT and professionalism ever.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Thu, 14 Sep 2017, 09:57

So Toronto Wolfpack have just signed four big name NRL players from Australia for next season in the Championship. We know Argyle has deep pockets; however, they've got some other shadow owners who clearly have serious coin.

It was also announced that a second Canadian team will be launched most likely in 2019 (expected to be Montreal) and a group in New York is also interested in starting a team. Next season, they will have bigger games against London, Tolouse and possibly Perpignan should they be relegated. Perez also hinted that the Wolfpack will be looking to upgrade Lamport Stadium. Rumour is Super League XIII will expand in to a conference system with an additional French team (Carcassonne or Avignon) looking to join the league. Rugby Canada is going to get caught with their pants down by these guys, mark my words.

I for one look forward to the Toronto vs Tolouse, Toronto vs London and possibly Toronto vs Perpignan derbies next year.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 14 Sep 2017, 10:43

Canadian_Rugger wrote:So Toronto Wolfpack have just signed four big name NRL players from Australia for next season in the Championship. We know Argyle has deep pockets; however, they've got some other shadow owners who clearly have serious coin.

It was also announced that a second Canadian team will be launched most likely in 2019 (expected to be Montreal) and a group in New York is also interested in starting a team. Next season, they will have bigger games against London, Tolouse and possibly Perpignan should they be relegated. Perez also hinted that the Wolfpack will be looking to upgrade Lamport Stadium. Rumour is Super League XIII will expand in to a conference system with an additional French team (Carcassonne or Avignon) looking to join the league. Rugby Canada is going to get caught with their pants down by these guys, mark my words.

I for one look forward to the Toronto vs Tolouse, Toronto vs London and possibly Toronto vs Perpignan derbies next year.


I think you need to look up what a derby is. It will be interesting to see how it develops. There is the assumption that we'll see the recently launched Arrows enter the MLR in 2019. Honest question, what appeals more. A team full of foreign mercenaries which the Wolfpack are and any Montreal team will also likely be or a team full of Canadians?

And a future in the SL isn't necessarily guaranteed. Attendances and viewership for the SL are on the slide. They have been down year on year for the past 5 years. Why do you think they've been so keen on the Wolfpack? They are hoping it will revive a flailing structure.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Thu, 14 Sep 2017, 11:47

Looks like we're finally getting a university championship for the men! Long overdue, but better late than never. Going to be hosted in Guelph, so I'll probably drive out for it.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 14 Sep 2017, 15:59

Used2BwithIt wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:The confounding thing is that nobody officially has identified the problem, let alone tried to implement fixes.

We are still a country of 35 million people with the sport played from coast to coast and a lot of infrastructure/people in place. It isn't hopless, but with inaction it is.



I'm convinced it's a grassroots issue. The quality isn't good enough and thus our 'best' are never really tested / pushed to a higher level of quality. I've seen plenty of schools roll through their respective leagues year-after-year but they don't stack up against mid-range teams from 'proper' rugby countries. It's tough to get better when your opponents allow relatively easy tries. I also think that with just a few schools dominating (i.e. having good coaches), we miss out on the 'freaks' at other schools who have the potential to be good top level players, physically, but who get discouraged by thumpings from the good schools or are deemed too 'raw' by age-grade selectors. I also feel that rugby training is stuck in the old days, frankly being quite boring compared to what else one could be doing.

In a dream world, we'd have an army of development officers in every region helping coaches get better and helping to develop raw talent. When I first heard of it, I thought Ontario's "Hub" program might be a step in the right direction, but it seems like they're still focused on a narrow group of keen kids whose parents can afford to pay for it. We need to be better at reaching everyone in all corners of the rugby-playing diaspora, and not just for the privileged in 'elite' programs but during the school season as well.

There's a phrase going around in soccer development circles that sums up my thoughts: "As many as possible, as long as possible*, in the best environment possible". (*and that doesn't mean all year, like the BC kids who do club in the fall, school in the spring and rep in the summer. That'll lead to burn-out. But a good run of games from a young age and hopefully the environment encourages them to be lifelong rugby participants in one way or others.)


It's for sure a problem at the grassroots, though the grassroots aren't THE problem. The sport needs national leadership and support to the grassroots it is hasn't got any. I believe Rusty Lock and myself are of the same mind and this has been rehashed on here a million times. This Toronto whatever team is just another iteration of the same flawed mindset/failed players.

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