Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Canadian rugby

Posts: 677
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 20:56
National Flag:
GeorgiaGeorgia

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby fullbackace » Sat, 23 Sep 2017, 00:19

grande wrote:New head coach: Kingsley Jones, former Wales player, former Dragons, Sale Sharks, and Russia HC.

My deepest condolences.
Don't Pray For Easy lives, Pray for enough Beer!

Posts: 208
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Sat, 23 Sep 2017, 00:35

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:Kingsley could be okay, but probably not. He was coaching a bankrupt team with a swamp for a pitch, so it is hard to judge him. Kieran Crowley has just led Treviso to back to back victories tonight, raising my opinion of him. With him and Anscombe it is clear the quality of the coach has not been the main issue.


I thought Crowley's gameplan didn't really translate because of his personnel but he did a lot of very interesting things in the RWC to work around our deficiencies and appeared otherwise good.

I thought Anscombe was great, literally not much he could do better aside from his alienating the players with harsh criticism. Most definitely not a coaching issue. Honestly I think the coaching Xs and Os isn't that important, building the program/motivating is the bigger issue at this low ebb of the rugby here.

User avatar
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Sat, 23 Sep 2017, 22:18

Coaching isn't the problem. Development is the problem. We can point to no domestic professional league or limited opportunities for professional contracts in europe for Canadians but at the end of the day those are just excuses. There simply aren't enough players good enough in the 19 to 22 age range to get noticed and develop their skills in academies overseas to field a team that is going to be competitive. There is an incredible disconnect between school and club rugby. The number of kids that play in high school that do not go on to play at a local club after they leave school is staggering. I've coached high school I've seen hundreds kids leave school and never pick up a rugby ball again. No amount of talking to local clubs seems to change their ability or willingness to engage in the schools. It defies my understanding. It's like the local clubs just expect the kids to automatically show up at the club with out any real recruitment. I can slag off on RC for all of their stupidity, and there is a lot of it, but until we bridge gap from high school to HP U20 we're going no where.

Posts: 31
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Mon, 25 Sep 2017, 16:43

rusty_lock wrote:Coaching isn't the problem. Development is the problem. We can point to no domestic professional league or limited opportunities for professional contracts in europe for Canadians but at the end of the day those are just excuses. There simply aren't enough players good enough in the 19 to 22 age range to get noticed and develop their skills in academies overseas to field a team that is going to be competitive. There is an incredible disconnect between school and club rugby. The number of kids that play in high school that do not go on to play at a local club after they leave school is staggering. I've coached high school I've seen hundreds kids leave school and never pick up a rugby ball again. No amount of talking to local clubs seems to change their ability or willingness to engage in the schools. It defies my understanding. It's like the local clubs just expect the kids to automatically show up at the club with out any real recruitment. I can slag off on RC for all of their stupidity, and there is a lot of it, but until we bridge gap from high school to HP U20 we're going no where.


:thumbup:

I've been out of the youth club coaching circuit for a while, but the last time I did was before this current generation. Even then, I realised that if I went to high school games and approached individuals it was enough to get them to come out. I had no problem getting the best players in my area to join the team and we did well.

I mention that to others now and they speak as if they are absolutely against feeding their egos as such. I don't think they can afford to be so passive about recruitment, believing that joining the club is such a great honour that they need not be bothered to ask. This current generation seems to need that kind of an invitation even more. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if you look at how many things are competing for their time and money... job uncertainty, money for school, etc.

Are clubs making it worth the time, money, commitment because priorities have changed and the best clubs will adapt to the next generation or suffer.

Posts: 385
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 28 Sep 2017, 19:05

So whom is the Coach that is the up and comer that hasn't been given the opportunity in the RC Structure and the Player/Coach whom is the most beloved active Canadian Player? http://www.bcrugbynews.com/show_news.cfm?ID=2449

User avatar
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 01:21

TheStroBro wrote:So whom is the Coach that is the up and comer that hasn't been given the opportunity in the RC Structure and the Player/Coach whom is the most beloved active Canadian Player? http://www.bcrugbynews.com/show_news.cfm?ID=2449


I can't speak authoritatively who is being referred to in the article but Jebb Sinclair has announced his retirement as a player and is now coaching at Meraloma's

User avatar
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 01:24

Also good news Hassler was back starting on the wing with Ospreys last weekend.

Posts: 2
Joined: Tue, 03 Jun 2014, 03:06
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Run34 » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 05:31

TheStroBro wrote:So whom is the Coach that is the up and comer that hasn't been given the opportunity in the RC Structure and the Player/Coach whom is the most beloved active Canadian Player? http://www.bcrugbynews.com/show_news.cfm?ID=2449


BC Rugby News refer to the player/coach as someone who "could be considered the most popular player in Canadian rugby right now." Assuming they don't play overseas, I gotta think it's Phil Mack. He has my vote anyway.

Posts: 204
Joined: Tue, 12 Apr 2016, 14:19
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby sammo » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 14:40

Hubert Buydens and Eric Howard have signed for New Orleans Gold in the MLR

Posts: 251
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 29 Sep 2017, 23:06

Used2BwithIt wrote:
rusty_lock wrote:Coaching isn't the problem. Development is the problem. We can point to no domestic professional league or limited opportunities for professional contracts in europe for Canadians but at the end of the day those are just excuses. There simply aren't enough players good enough in the 19 to 22 age range to get noticed and develop their skills in academies overseas to field a team that is going to be competitive. There is an incredible disconnect between school and club rugby. The number of kids that play in high school that do not go on to play at a local club after they leave school is staggering. I've coached high school I've seen hundreds kids leave school and never pick up a rugby ball again. No amount of talking to local clubs seems to change their ability or willingness to engage in the schools. It defies my understanding. It's like the local clubs just expect the kids to automatically show up at the club with out any real recruitment. I can slag off on RC for all of their stupidity, and there is a lot of it, but until we bridge gap from high school to HP U20 we're going no where.


:thumbup:

I've been out of the youth club coaching circuit for a while, but the last time I did was before this current generation. Even then, I realised that if I went to high school games and approached individuals it was enough to get them to come out. I had no problem getting the best players in my area to join the team and we did well.

I mention that to others now and they speak as if they are absolutely against feeding their egos as such. I don't think they can afford to be so passive about recruitment, believing that joining the club is such a great honour that they need not be bothered to ask. This current generation seems to need that kind of an invitation even more. I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if you look at how many things are competing for their time and money... job uncertainty, money for school, etc.

Are clubs making it worth the time, money, commitment because priorities have changed and the best clubs will adapt to the next generation or suffer.



The BCRU is the problem. When your asking 18 year kids to play Div 1 rugby something is wrong.

Ive been trying to get my son whose birthday is in late November permission to play down an age grade ( back into U18) so to give him another year playing with his peers THEY BCRU HAS SAID NO!!!!!!! SO INSTEAD OF GOING AND GETTING KILLED PLAYING AGAINST MEN IN DIV 1, HE HAS DECIDED NOT TO PLAY. This is where the BCRU and rugby in Canada are losing kids. Here is a kid who wants to play but isn't physically or mentally ready to play against men (and whose birthday is 30 days off a arbitrary date) and he is told that he must play with Men..... crazy

There was a div 1 game last week where a Div 1 team won by 70 something to 0. The losing team had 3 very green U19 kids playing in the back field. Hows that good for the growth of the game. MEN VS BOYS

Posts: 208
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 02:56

Can your son play seconds or in a lower tier of men's rugby that suits him a bit better?

Posts: 251
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 18:17

marvinparsons wrote:Can your son play seconds or in a lower tier of men's rugby that suits him a bit better?



Here on the Island teams only run a Premiere team, a reserve team ((first div) or what ever BCRU is calling it this year) and the odd club runs a third grade team. Years of mismanagement by the BCRU and rugby Canada has left the player pool so small its hard for clubs to build programs especially when teenagers may be unready for the mens game. We tried to run a U20 last year but no other team ran one so there was nobody to play.

Posts: 1796
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 19:03

snapper37 wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:Can your son play seconds or in a lower tier of men's rugby that suits him a bit better?



Here on the Island teams only run a Premiere team, a reserve team ((first div) or what ever BCRU is calling it this year) and the odd club runs a third grade team. Years of mismanagement by the BCRU and rugby Canada has left the player pool so small its hard for clubs to build programs especially when teenagers may be unready for the mens game. We tried to run a U20 last year but no other team ran one so there was nobody to play.


Why not schedule matches for the U20 team against university teams? This is what the Pleasanton Jesters U23 have been doing in California.

User avatar
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Sat, 30 Sep 2017, 22:08

snapper37 wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:Can your son play seconds or in a lower tier of men's rugby that suits him a bit better?



Here on the Island teams only run a Premiere team, a reserve team ((first div) or what ever BCRU is calling it this year) and the odd club runs a third grade team. Years of mismanagement by the BCRU and rugby Canada has left the player pool so small its hard for clubs to build programs especially when teenagers may be unready for the mens game. We tried to run a U20 last year but no other team ran one so there was nobody to play.


I remember in the early 80's as a teenager playing 3'rds at Bby. Lake. It was a mix of old guys, young guys and few in the middle who didn't want it as competitive. It was good for developing

Posts: 385
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 00:09

I seriously don't see the problem with an 18 yr old playing against Men as long as it's not the Premier League. It's amateur club rugby, it's not as if they're more fit. Most men playing Club Rugby in the US don't seriously strength train and only go to two or three practices a week for fitness. Your son is probably more fit than they are. However, if he's still in high school that is a problem.

User avatar
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri, 16 May 2014, 17:25
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 01:38

I don't know if anyone else cares but my club, Nor'Wester AA, Premier team won their first ever Alberta Cup Provincial title in our 43 year history. Only coming back up to Alberta first division back in 2014 after an eight year hiatus. They beat long standing Alberta powerhouse, the Calgary Hornets, 74-14 at Ellerslie Rugby Park in Edmonton.

The other results for the day: the Bow Valley Grizzlies beat the Edmonton Leprechaun-Tigers 88-5 for the 2nd Division title while the Edson Axmen beat the Calgary Knights 58-24 for the 3rd Division title.

Posts: 1443
Joined: Sun, 20 Apr 2014, 16:57
Location: Leicester
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 13:00

Buffalo wrote:I don't know if anyone else cares but my club, Nor'Wester AA, Premier team won their first ever Alberta Cup Provincial title in our 43 year history. Only coming back up to Alberta first division back in 2014 after an eight year hiatus. They beat long standing Alberta powerhouse, the Calgary Hornets, 74-14 at Ellerslie Rugby Park in Edmonton.

The other results for the day: the Bow Valley Grizzlies beat the Edmonton Leprechaun-Tigers 88-5 for the 2nd Division title while the Edson Axmen beat the Calgary Knights 58-24 for the 3rd Division title.



Congratulations! :thumbup:

Hope you celebrated it with a few beers, by the looks of it a game you could revel in and not one with much stress at the end!

User avatar
Posts: 428
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 16:02
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 13:34

Buffalo wrote:I don't know if anyone else cares but my club, Nor'Wester AA, Premier team won their first ever Alberta Cup Provincial title in our 43 year history. Only coming back up to Alberta first division back in 2014 after an eight year hiatus. They beat long standing Alberta powerhouse, the Calgary Hornets, 74-14 at Ellerslie Rugby Park in Edmonton.

The other results for the day: the Bow Valley Grizzlies beat the Edmonton Leprechaun-Tigers 88-5 for the 2nd Division title while the Edson Axmen beat the Calgary Knights 58-24 for the 3rd Division title.


That's awesome to hear! Congratulations!

When you're having a great time with your club, all the national level bullshit almost doesn't matter. It's all about playing the game.
Norfolk Harvesters RFC 10-0-0 NRU "B" Division Champions

Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 22:26
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Sun, 01 Oct 2017, 15:11

Semi Finals for the McCormick Cup will be:

Markham Irish @ Brantford
Balmy Beach @ Toronto Scottish

Posts: 31
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Mon, 02 Oct 2017, 15:50

snapper37 wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:Can your son play seconds or in a lower tier of men's rugby that suits him a bit better?



Here on the Island teams only run a Premiere team, a reserve team ((first div) or what ever BCRU is calling it this year) and the odd club runs a third grade team. Years of mismanagement by the BCRU and rugby Canada has left the player pool so small its hard for clubs to build programs especially when teenagers may be unready for the mens game. We tried to run a U20 last year but no other team ran one so there was nobody to play.



Oh, man. The Island! :) ... I coached there for a couple of years not too long ago. I've never seen a more unnecessarily aggressive league, and not just on the pitch, but from the touchlines as well! Swearing at the ref. Calling out individuals. Old school dirty stuff that's supposed to be gone from rugby these days for the sake of safety and growth. I normally don't say anything to opposition players, but after seeing one of mine have his head rubbed into the mud after a late - but not illegally so - hit into touch, I challenged him on it asking if he felt like a big man. He just maniacally laughed, told me to f-off and got back into the game. It's no wonder teens don't want to play in it.

Thankfully, I think such things are rare, but the story I more often heard from young guys also relates to their unreadiness / poor preparation. A kid working at a store noticed a jersey I was wearing and asked if I played. Said I coached and asked if he played. He immediately looked a bit glum, saying he graduated recently, only ever played hooker at school and that there was no way - now at something like 160lbs - he was ever going to do that at men's level. Suggested that there were other positions to try, but I could see that he was not confident of having a go. Some might say that's on him, but further to what I said above, we have to get out of this old school attitude toward things if we want to grow.

Who knows how that kid is going to grow / mature over the next few years? Why not give him the environment to keep playing at a level that appeals and see how it goes? Many years ago, the Toronto Rugby Union had a U21 league that I coached in. It was great! Our club had about 25 guys turn out for Wednesday night games, which worked for other clubs that used some of their studs in the men's teams on Saturdays. Of our 25, only about 3 played men's and the rest never would have without this league. It gave them a few more years to develop and grow physically and I'd say a few more turned out for the men's team after 21 because of it.

I don't know why it no longer exists, but I think shifting demographics in player ages (how many 30+ year olds play compared to the old days?) and the desire to win at all costs (which is rife even in some clubs' seconds teams, not to mention lower division single-side clubs that pretend they're playing for fortune and glory!) takes those few kids into their men's teams at the expense of the average kid who has nowhere else to play, or quits out of lack of reasonable game time.

Posts: 1206
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby amz » Mon, 02 Oct 2017, 19:26

@User2Bwithlt: incredible how similar are the issues you pointed with what happens in Romanian grassroots rugby, despite the huge difference between our two countries (different continents, culture etc.)

Posts: 24
Joined: Tue, 29 Sep 2015, 21:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 14:21

@used2B

What irks me about your scenario is that I don't care if the guy becomes a decent player. We can no more afford to lose the 3rd Div lifers who are great club guys. They may become refs, coaches, club executive, etc. In many clubs the older guys who help keep everything working were not always top players - they just loved their club and their rugby.

When I started playing in the VRU 4th Div we had 2 capped players looking for a run on Saturdays, a few high school grads, players on their way up and down. All felt welcomed and connected to the club. Any measure that keeps more warm bodies connected to the clubs is a good one.

I believe that most top down policies aimed at the elite players are bad for the clubs. You strengthen and protect your base to improve at the top.

Posts: 251
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 15:02

Was_a_Kat wrote:@used2B

What irks me about your scenario is that I don't care if the guy becomes a decent player. We can no more afford to lose the 3rd Div lifers who are great club guys. They may become refs, coaches, club executive, etc. In many clubs the older guys who help keep everything working were not always top players - they just loved their club and their rugby.

When I started playing in the VRU 4th Div we had 2 capped players looking for a run on Saturdays, a few high school grads, players on their way up and down. All felt welcomed and connected to the club. Any measure that keeps more warm bodies connected to the clubs is a good one.

I believe that most top down policies aimed at the elite players are bad for the clubs. You strengthen and protect your base to improve at the top.



Thats the problem with Canadian rugby.....it's becoming too elitist. Private school kids who can afford trips, elite golf tournaments special fishing trips plus multiple wine and cheese parties. Nothing for the common man and the common player

Posts: 31
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Tue, 03 Oct 2017, 20:28

snapper37 wrote:
Was_a_Kat wrote:@used2B

What irks me about your scenario is that I don't care if the guy becomes a decent player. We can no more afford to lose the 3rd Div lifers who are great club guys. They may become refs, coaches, club executive, etc. In many clubs the older guys who help keep everything working were not always top players - they just loved their club and their rugby.

When I started playing in the VRU 4th Div we had 2 capped players looking for a run on Saturdays, a few high school grads, players on their way up and down. All felt welcomed and connected to the club. Any measure that keeps more warm bodies connected to the clubs is a good one.

I believe that most top down policies aimed at the elite players are bad for the clubs. You strengthen and protect your base to improve at the top.



Thats the problem with Canadian rugby.....it's becoming too elitist. Private school kids who can afford trips, elite golf tournaments special fishing trips plus multiple wine and cheese parties. Nothing for the common man and the common player



Completely agree with both of these. I guess I'm the case of a not-so-good player who became a coach (five years playing, nearly 20 years coaching) but I always bring up a good buddy of mine on this subject. He really shouldn't have given the experience he had at school - barely played, even when his team was up by 30 - but decided to give lower division club rugby a go again after finishing college. Became an instrumental 'club guy' over the next 8 years until his baby came along.

Social rugby players are not only great people who tend to give back to the club and remain loyal for many years (despite, at times, being exploited for their charity while club-hopping first team imports do little), they deserve to have functioning leagues where they can play at their level, with maximum game time, without it being all about the win. Some clubs manage it, but many others can't field regularly or don't put the effort into creating such a team.

One thing I heard England did a few years ago was institute an Interchange system like Rugby League - and some social leagues here do have rolling subs - but they said it brought back a lot of players who knew they could put in a 15-20 minute shift, sit out and come back in. I thought it'd also be great for single-team clubs, knowing you could put your entire bench in at half and (with 12 changes for a 7 player bench) you could swap guys back in if anyone got injured in the second half.

In a League or Cup Match, where consent has been given by the appropriate Divisional Organising Committee and subject to Regulations (including, without limitation, 13.5.9 and 13.5.10) each team shall be permitted to use rolling substitutions of not more than the maximum number of the player interchanges (“Permitted Player Interchanges”) set out in the table below:

Number of
Replacements
Player
Interchanges
3 - 8
4 - 9
5 - 10
7 - 12

Posts: 1243
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 22:26
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Thu, 05 Oct 2017, 17:32

Men's Sevens Roster: http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsl ... age=101534

Of the 21 players, 14 are from BC and 7 are from Ontario. None from anywhere else in Canada.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 10 guests