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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 14:29

mb.rugger89 wrote:Any of you post responses to the rugby canada board facebook post about how to improve rugby? They are looking for answers from the community, and i have seen some fantastic ideas being tossed around on here. Nows the chance to make them heard.


I will read through them :)

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 14:46

mb.rugger89 wrote:Any of you post responses to the rugby canada board facebook post about how to improve rugby? They are looking for answers from the community, and i have seen some fantastic ideas being tossed around on here. Nows the chance to make them heard.


The most interesting comment I saw was that RC needs to identify the root problems first.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 15:31

I found it very interesting that the first comment about building youth / school rugby was met by a Rugby Canada response of "but that should be the job of local unions." Well maybe but that clearly doesnt seem to be working very well so thats where a national body has to step in a tale the reigns.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Wed, 28 Mar 2018, 15:41

Yeah, I saw that comment about local unions doing it. The problem i have seen first hand is that "rugby is too dangerous" from school boards. If rugby canada even made an information package for the clubs/unions to use about the safety of rugby, that would go a long way to help gettingit into schools.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 00:24

mb.rugger89 wrote:Yeah, I saw that comment about local unions doing it. The problem i have seen first hand is that "rugby is too dangerous" from school boards. If rugby canada even made an information package for the clubs/unions to use about the safety of rugby, that would go a long way to help gettingit into schools.


Not to mention something also to prevent already-established programs from falling by the wayside due to lack of teachers who can coach. I know of at least six programs (and I don't have a wide knowledge of the landscape) in Ontario that won't be running this year because the teacher that ran it before has moved on and end of school / kickoffs are too early in the day for any volunteers from local clubs.

Inviting people to do the basic courses just isn't enough. Beyond those issues, continuing professional development and mentorship to help the established programs get better and be more competitive would also go a long way. I'm sure we all know good players who proved to be not that good when they made the step up because they'd never really been tested, or at least miss out on years of development until they started uni / adult rugby. (Not to mention great athletes with potential who never got good coaching and left the sport after school ended.)

Somewhat related, these experienced and knowledgeable coach educators nail some issues we have as well: https://www.hmmrmedia.com/2018/02/gainc ... vin-giles/

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 03:32

ruckovercdn wrote:I found it very interesting that the first comment about building youth / school rugby was met by a Rugby Canada response of "but that should be the job of local unions." Well maybe but that clearly doesnt seem to be working very well so thats where a national body has to step in a tale the reigns.


They wouldn't say though that the inventive of the provincial unions is to keep the focus on the club system as it brings in club dues would they. Way to go Rugby Canada taking responsibility as ever.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 04:26

mb.rugger89 wrote:Yeah, I saw that comment about local unions doing it. The problem i have seen first hand is that "rugby is too dangerous" from school boards. If rugby canada even made an information package for the clubs/unions to use about the safety of rugby, that would go a long way to help gettingit into schools.



I've stated that down here, High School Varsity Initiative needs to be in the CEO and Chair's top 5 priorities. Currently it's been on the desk of a low level staffer. Athletics Commissioners do not speak to staffers, they speak to peers.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 18:34

marvinparsons wrote:It is club rugby, anything can happen and quickly. I've seen "great" sides nosedive, teams that suck take the title a few years later etc.

You take enough injuries, people moving, quitting for work/family/sick of rugby, coaches that aren't paid, there's way more volatility than a pro sport where a budget ensures you have a fixed number of quality players and OK coaches year over year. If your second team defaults you are playing basically anyone with a pulse and blowouts become inescapable (I've been on both sides of this). Many club teams get by with horrible depth too, so if a few guys go down the replacements are way off the mark. It isn't like the pros where you swap a 10 for a 7, you are often swapping a 10 for a 2, relatively speaking.

To the poster that said it is the fault of JBAA. Yes it is their fault they couldn't field 2 teams, but it is likely symptomatic of a bigger issue, which is declining men's rugby. The numbers bare this out. Eventually it'll catch up and result in a) teams defaulting on games/less sides fielded b) worse national side. Both of these are happening. Why wouldn't either happen when membership declines by 25% or so?



I agree with your comments. And in my opinion the premier level looks more like Div 1 rugby of a decade ago anyways. . Another problem that JBAA has also ran into is that Rugby Canada has now stated that all RC players are not allowed to play any club rugby for the rest of the season. That decision removes I think 7 players out of JBAA's line up, the next seven reserve players are just not up to any sort of Premier rugby.



Next year will be interesting. as i hear that RC wants the RC players playing together in the league under one team (pride like)

To me its time to rebrand the league with 7 teams. Leave the clubs to build community ball. div 1 and 3 and junior.
2-Universities
RC players
Local rep
*Tide
*vancouver
*Valley

http://www.bcrugbynews.com/show_news.cfm?ID=2677
Last edited by snapper37 on Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 19:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 18:47

I think your idea for scrapping clubs at the top level (or incorporating somehow) makes sense here and throughout Canada, where geographically possible. Top leagues should have the top players.

I can't understand the logic of RC barring players from club rugby. Surely they'd be better off with some game time than nothing.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 19:15

marvinparsons wrote:I think your idea for scrapping clubs at the top level (or incorporating somehow) makes sense here and throughout Canada, where geographically possible. Top leagues should have the top players.

I can't understand the logic of RC barring players from club rugby. Surely they'd be better off with some game time than nothing.


Not in favour of scrapping clubs. Just removing the Premiere. Leave it to the rep sides to draw players not the clubs. This will leave the clubs to go back to building local community ball.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 19:46

snapper37 wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:I think your idea for scrapping clubs at the top level (or incorporating somehow) makes sense here and throughout Canada, where geographically possible. Top leagues should have the top players.

I can't understand the logic of RC barring players from club rugby. Surely they'd be better off with some game time than nothing.


Not in favour of scrapping clubs. Just removing the Premiere. Leave it to the rep sides to draw players not the clubs. This will leave the clubs to go back to building local community ball.


That’s wasn’t a friend’s suggestion back aroun 1996 or so when they added Premier. Keep the club system intact, expand the old McKechnie Cup for the truly top players.

Victoria basically always has 2/3 teams competitive it seems. Not sure how Cowichan does.

Kats, Bayside and Brits all have declined to various degrees.

The way clubs improve is through poaching and imports. Does investing in development really make sense? I would be curious to know how many U18 club players play more than 40 games for the club at the senior level. I suspect it is about 15 per cent max.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 29 Mar 2018, 22:44

Poaching and imports is, sadly, a way to success for many clubs.

That's part of why I'd just like rugby to be like every other sport - if you are a kid and want to play you sign up for "rugby" and are assigned to a team and the teams make sense geographically and skillwise to balance out the sides.

For seniors you don't play for a club, you sign up for, try out for or are drafted for team in a particular league. If you improve you can move up, if you decline move down. The best players are all in one league, the next best in the one down etc. Like hockey.

Rugby is a weird hodge podge where you might have a great player in a 3rd tier league, a semi OK player in the top league, one team with 100 players, another with 40. It doesn't make sense to me as a foundation for organizing the sport and is IMO a negative holdover from the UK/Europe.

My club produced an age grade team Canada 10/lock from juniors. But the men's team is laughably bad, yet there is some expectation these guys should play for them, it makes no sense. They should just automatically be on the best men's team in Ottawa playing the other best players.

If you could streamline the assignment of players you'd get a lot more cooperation and goodwill rather than the jackassery, myopia and selfishness that club rugby generates. The entire sport is built on destroying other teams to build your own - a race to the bottom. It isn't productive and pushes a lot of people out of the sport completely. Here in Ottawa basically everyone involved in rugby hates passionately everyone else involved in rugby. The people left running things aren't the sort of people you want in charge, in many instances.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Fri, 30 Mar 2018, 15:20

Ha, ha ... Ottawa. What a mess that seems to be. The cross-city poaching. Everyone playing at the same sub-par venue 30 kms from the city. Poor junior club teams (apart from one?) despite some pretty decent numbers playing schools rugby.

I've said for years it'd be interesting to see if everyone trained and played in their respective communities and if there were borders like there are (pretty sure, anyway) in hockey and football. I remember training downtown once, having random dog walkers and joggers say they didn't know there was rugby in Ottawa, say they might want to come out to play / watch, but immediately change tunes upon hearing where the game venue was.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 01:15

Used2BwithIt wrote:
I've said for years it'd be interesting to see if everyone trained and played in their respective communities and if there were borders like there are (pretty sure, anyway) in hockey and football.


This would be a problem solver in Manitoba, we are a relatively new club(8years old), and the union decided to have a minimum numbers requirements, and one player took 5 others to another club because he didnt like one coach and got us stuck with an $800 fine. Then R.M. said they cant keep players in the area even though they know this would.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 02:12

BC Rugby looks to be revolting against Rugby Canada centralized program. Rugby Canada wants to pull players out of the CDI for remainder of season, BC clubs telling them to pound sand.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 04:07

I wonder what leverage the BCRU has to use. I mean the biggest thing i could think of would be dropping the number of carded players on the pitch down to 1 per team. Or even zero.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 05:22

ruckovercdn wrote:I wonder what leverage the BCRU has to use. I mean the biggest thing i could think of would be dropping the number of carded players on the pitch down to 1 per team. Or even zero.


That would be perfect. Two can play at rugby Canada's game

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 02 Apr 2018, 05:39

It may serve as the harsh reminder that they actually need provincial unions on board to achieve things in this country.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 22:29

Is there any truth behind the prarie wolfpack playing exhibition matches against MLR teams? Hoping some of you albertans would know considering how nothing has been said to us manitobans...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 22:38

mb.rugger89 wrote:Is there any truth behind the prarie wolfpack playing exhibition matches against MLR teams? Hoping some of you albertans would know considering how nothing has been said to us manitobans...


Only game I'm aware of is against the Utah Warriors on April 21st. Maybe the Seattle Seawolves got their shit together and organized a preseason match?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby cien_almas » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 22:53

I believe Wolf Pack is only playing vs Utah.

Wolf Pack team is 90% picked, it's going to be the core squad from previous years + a few guys here and there. The coach directly told one of the prospects that he had made up his team back in January.

There is supposed to be a Calgary vs Edmonton vs Manitoba vs Sask round robin at some point.

Now watch me be wrong about all this! :) Just stuff I've heard as late as last week.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 23:27

mb.rugger89 wrote:Is there any truth behind the prarie wolfpack playing exhibition matches against MLR teams? Hoping some of you albertans would know considering how nothing has been said to us manitobans...


Just the Warriors to my knowledge.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Tue, 03 Apr 2018, 23:41

TheStroBro wrote:
mb.rugger89 wrote:Is there any truth behind the prarie wolfpack playing exhibition matches against MLR teams? Hoping some of you albertans would know considering how nothing has been said to us manitobans...


Just the Warriors to my knowledge.


I asked someone at Rugby Alberta a bit ago and they told me the Wolf Pack are playing both the Utah Warriors and Seattle Seawolves. Hopefully our guys can put up a decent fight and avoid being embarrassed. Most of them probably won't have played any rugby since September.

As for the Wolf Pack being picked already, "shocker" there. Moffat likes to play favorites and pick his buddies so I'm not surprised. They really need to blood new players because the nepotism isn't helping anyone in the short or long term. Here's hoping some guys force their hand on Friday night.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 00:33

Just confirmed with Sea Wolves that they're playing Prairie Wolfpack.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Wed, 04 Apr 2018, 04:30

TheStroBro wrote:Just confirmed with Sea Wolves that they're playing Prairie Wolfpack.


Beat you to iiiiiiiiitttttttttttttt :D

Will be interesting to see what the Seawolves look like. Any idea what a full strength game day 23 will look like? I wonder how many of the Canadians will be starters.

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