Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Canadian rugby

Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 00:54

RC's taxing you to ensure the men's team have their perks for this pointless quest to get smashed at the RWC ... I say 'you' because I won't be registering this year.

https://www.facebook.com/RugbyCanada/po ... 2265795734

Posts: 37
Joined: Sun, 18 Mar 2018, 00:53
National Flag:
NicaraguaNicaragua

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Gen Santa » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 03:00

never in my life have i seen a sports association humiliate itself so much in public...

Posts: 269
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 03:50

Pathetic move.

Rugby Canada are pieces of shit. Destroying the sport.

Posts: 852
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 05:25

At least I can say down here if our Rugby Congress did the same, there would be problems!

Posts: 26
Joined: Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 18:20
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 15:49

They lied about how much they will make from it. If they get rhe amount of registrants in senior leagues as last year they will make just over 600000. That doesnt include the juniors at all.

Posts: 852
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 15:50

It seems that the provincial Unions don't think that it's important for the Board to go shake some trees...

Posts: 37
Joined: Sun, 18 Mar 2018, 00:53
National Flag:
NicaraguaNicaragua

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Gen Santa » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 15:52

is rugby really so financially poor in canada? what happened to canada and why are they so bad? is the development system so bad?

i remember canada used to be the best team in the americas outside los pumas but usa and uruguay are clearly better and brazil may soon be better... and canada used to be very good in rwc playing competitive games... now they are tier 2.5....

Posts: 695
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 17:09

Clubs should register their mini's programs with the CRL just to make a point.

I want Rugby Canada to fracture as I think it's the only way to fix the sport here. I'd love to see the ORU break off from Rugby Canada.

Posts: 26
Joined: Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 18:20
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Sun, 08 Apr 2018, 17:18

The unions were strong armed apparently, either it was 15 bucks and rugby canada can increase it as they wanted or 20 and they cant increase it for 3 years.

Posts: 269
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 03:01


User avatar
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 05:20

This is truly the all-time low point in Canadian rugby history.

Posts: 3625
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 08:48

Losing to someone like Zimbabwe or Hong Kong in November will probably be officially rock bottom.

Posts: 695
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 13:19

Maria Samson, god love her, is trying to act as a voice for Rugby Canada but boy do they ever look bad. I've heard a few mention they are considering registering their Mini's teams with the CRL in protest.

I am 100% against amateur players footing the bill for .1% to go globetrotting. Get a job like the rest of us if they want to play.

User avatar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Fri, 16 May 2014, 17:25
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 14:52

Maria Samson continually comes across as a Rugby Canada shill who's not particularly adept at public relations. While I appreciate her passion for the game and what she did on the field, she seems to be doing little but further agitating members from what I've read. I'm definitely starting to think that Canadian clubs should start looking at League since Rugby Canada couldn't give a single care in the world about us.
Last edited by Buffalo on Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 15:18, edited 2 times in total.

Posts: 8
Joined: Sat, 03 Mar 2018, 17:07
National Flag:
ZimbabweZimbabwe

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby therugbycoach » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 15:15

I love how they say the membership agreed ... so some people who got the e-mail at the provincial unions...made a decision for everyone I Guess, as it seems not many people had any idea of this !!
I said over a year ago they should abandon trying to qualify as they obviously wern't up to it , and they would be better investing time and money for future WCs

but they thought it better to build and Elite training centre at no doubt a huge cost to bluff people we had some Elite players that live in the vancouver region only...then do a needless rebranding exercise again not costless..... then have the absolute gall to ask the parents of children to pay for a jolly party in Japan ...

Posts: 319
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 16:58

Buffalo wrote:Maria Samson continually comes across as a Rugby Canada shill who's not particularly adept at public relations. While I appreciate her passion for the game and what she did on the field, she seems to be doing little but further agitating members from what I've read. I'm definitely starting to think that Canadian clubs should start looking at League since Rugby Canada couldn't give a single care in the world about us.



League isn't rugby it's Red Rover.

Posts: 1330
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 22:26
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 17:11

Posted from someone at Rugby NS: https://m.facebook.com/groups/582894981 ... 7900913135

This is such a better handling of it that what RC did.

I'm still so pissed at them titling that post with "Rugby Community Steps Up." Such fucking bullshit.

mb.rugger89 wrote:They lied about how much they will make from it. If they get rhe amount of registrants in senior leagues as last year they will make just over 600000. That doesnt include the juniors at all.


Maybe that takes into account all the people that won't register this year...

Posts: 319
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 17:51

I come to the conclusion that RC is just fundraising money to help fund Belgium's defence. Last thing RC wants is the game replayed which there seems to be rumours about...

Posts: 695
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 18:23

The problem with all the doom in gloom is there is no actual evidence that the rugby community will suffer if the National Team doesn't make it. Certainly Rugby Canada as an organization will suffer but that has little impact on any of us.

I've stated my position quite clearly:

I and 99% of the Rugby Public in Canada are hobbyists. I don't want to put one cent of my own money in to funding the .1% to go globetrotting around the globe representing us. If they want to do that, they can:

A. Get a job like the rest of us and pay their own way, or
B. Get good enough that someone is willing to pay them to play Rugby for them i.e. become a professional.

I would have no problem giving money to fund youth rugby or juniors, in fact, I already do by committing time and energy to my club and high schools around the area where I live. I have a big problem giving money to ADULTS though, I work hard for my money and don't feel like being taxed for a select group of individuals to eat from a silver spoon that I paid for.

Rugby Canada's goal should be to create a Senior Men's program in XVs and Sevens that is not only financially self-sustaining but actually makes them money. A good place to start would have been actually hosting tests in locations that have a chance of generating a profit for the organization. Take the matches for this June:

1. We know they are playing Scotland in Edmonton at Commonwealth Stadium, will this match even draw more than 8-9,000? No offence to Edmonton but it's a smaller city and I can't see the test breaking 10k in a 60k Stadium. So Rugby Canada probably isn't going to make very much if any money off that one.

2. I also hear that they will play the United States at a yet to be built Popup stadium in Halifax, with a miniscule capacity of 5K. Remember when they played Glasgow in Halifax and the match had to be moved to a local park in Spryfield at the last minute. It's bloody embarrassing.

SO NO, they can't have my money when anyone with any sort of business sense looks at the decisions they've made the past number of years. It's freakin AMATEUR HOUR!

Online
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue, 12 Apr 2016, 14:19
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby sammo » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 18:43

Canadian_Rugger wrote:The problem with all the doom in gloom is there is no actual evidence that the rugby community will suffer if the National Team doesn't make it. Certainly Rugby Canada as an organization will suffer but that has little impact on any of us.



According to the Nova Scotia representative linked above by Grande ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/5828949 ... 7900913135 );

'Let Them Not Qualify

This is in several posts. If Canada doesn't qualify for the World Cup we do not share in the revenue and our funding from World Rugby will be reduced dramatically. Millions over the next four years will be lost. The result of this lack of funding will hit every level of Rugby in Canada. It would mean catastrophic change.'

Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 18:51

snapper37 wrote:
Buffalo wrote:Maria Samson continually comes across as a Rugby Canada shill who's not particularly adept at public relations. While I appreciate her passion for the game and what she did on the field, she seems to be doing little but further agitating members from what I've read. I'm definitely starting to think that Canadian clubs should start looking at League since Rugby Canada couldn't give a single care in the world about us.



League isn't rugby it's Red Rover.



To be fair to League, Union has copied their defence and hired their coaches to do it, League's second man play with decoy runners is what every team does now, and in the last year there have been a lot more tries from cross kicks and grubbers than I can ever remember ...


Was thinking today with us not being allowed on school fields - as per usual - probably until May 1st, and provincial playoffs in early June, it sure would be easier to get a team focused on quality attack and defence if they didn't have to worry about scrums, lineouts, rucks and mauls. :)

Posts: 695
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 19:01

sammo wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:The problem with all the doom in gloom is there is no actual evidence that the rugby community will suffer if the National Team doesn't make it. Certainly Rugby Canada as an organization will suffer but that has little impact on any of us.



According to the Nova Scotia representative linked above by Grande ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/5828949 ... 7900913135 );

'Let Them Not Qualify

This is in several posts. If Canada doesn't qualify for the World Cup we do not share in the revenue and our funding from World Rugby will be reduced dramatically. Millions over the next four years will be lost. The result of this lack of funding will hit every level of Rugby in Canada. It would mean catastrophic change.'


Yes but what change? They also don't articulate who is impacted. You just need to follow the money:

https://rugby.ca/uploads/Documents/Annual_Reports/RC_AnnualReport2016-compressed.pdf This is last years annual report, worth a read, particularly page 40-41 where Rugby Canada goes over Revenues and Expenses.

What this report tells me, Rugby Canada has gotten very good at spending other peoples money. It also confirms what I already knew, that events like the HSBC World Series make no real money for Rugby Canada. At most it helps offset maybe a portion of the costs for the year of the Sevens Program but overall the program itself is a big money loser. It also reaffirms that Rugby Canada made a massive error pursuing Sevens at the expense of XVs because there was no guarantee they would make it anywhere and Sport Canada money is predicated on success in the sport. Sevens is a pretty volatile sport and success can be elusive even for the best sides.

Now because of this decision, the entire program is in jeopardy. Rugby Canada operates like a Crown Corporation and is completely ineffective when it comes to management and stewardship.

I reckon the only impact this would have would be on the Men's programs which would probably collapse and the entire self-licking ice cream cone in Langford would probably shutter. Impact on my Rugby Club or anyone else who plays the game for fun would be zero.

Posts: 58
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 19:02

sammo wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:The problem with all the doom in gloom is there is no actual evidence that the rugby community will suffer if the National Team doesn't make it. Certainly Rugby Canada as an organization will suffer but that has little impact on any of us.



According to the Nova Scotia representative linked above by Grande ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/5828949 ... 7900913135 );

'Let Them Not Qualify

This is in several posts. If Canada doesn't qualify for the World Cup we do not share in the revenue and our funding from World Rugby will be reduced dramatically. Millions over the next four years will be lost. The result of this lack of funding will hit every level of Rugby in Canada. It would mean catastrophic change.'



How, though? From my - admittedly basic - interpretation of the most recent financial breakdown, there's not a massive percentage of the RC budget that goes into club rugby (happy for someone to give hard numbers where they do, however!). If it "will hit every level of rugby in Canada", then I'd imagine most money siphoned from youth and adult club players in lieu of WR money would be to ensure the national teams still get to play as many games as they do, have the perks they do, have their national training centre and, the big one, that the RC offices will have as many staff members as they currently do on the wages they're being paid.

Where's the evidence that all of their efforts to expand over the last 10 years has made a difference? I'd be willing to bet that having stronger schools and clubs (not just a few, but everyone getting that much better) would do more to a) attract the best athletes, b) keep the best rugby players, c) give selectors for the various rep teams more people to look at (if they do their homework and actually scout rather than invite everyone who can afford it to their centralized areas).

Argentina made it to a World Cup semi on the back of an incredibly strong and competitive club system.

Posts: 695
Joined: Thu, 01 May 2014, 11:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 19:36

Used2BwithIt wrote:
sammo wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:The problem with all the doom in gloom is there is no actual evidence that the rugby community will suffer if the National Team doesn't make it. Certainly Rugby Canada as an organization will suffer but that has little impact on any of us.



According to the Nova Scotia representative linked above by Grande ( https://www.facebook.com/groups/5828949 ... 7900913135 );

'Let Them Not Qualify

This is in several posts. If Canada doesn't qualify for the World Cup we do not share in the revenue and our funding from World Rugby will be reduced dramatically. Millions over the next four years will be lost. The result of this lack of funding will hit every level of Rugby in Canada. It would mean catastrophic change.'



How, though? From my - admittedly basic - interpretation of the most recent financial breakdown, there's not a massive percentage of the RC budget that goes into club rugby (happy for someone to give hard numbers where they do, however!). If it "will hit every level of rugby in Canada", then I'd imagine most money siphoned from youth and adult club players in lieu of WR money would be to ensure the national teams still get to play as many games as they do, have the perks they do, have their national training centre and, the big one, that the RC offices will have as many staff members as they currently do on the wages they're being paid.

Where's the evidence that all of their efforts to expand over the last 10 years has made a difference? I'd be willing to bet that having stronger schools and clubs (not just a few, but everyone getting that much better) would do more to a) attract the best athletes, b) keep the best rugby players, c) give selectors for the various rep teams more people to look at (if they do their homework and actually scout rather than invite everyone who can afford it to their centralized areas).

Argentina made it to a World Cup semi on the back of an incredibly strong and competitive club system.


Lets look at how it breaks down:

Revenues:

External Funding
World Rugby - 2.1 Million
Sport Canada - 2.9 Million (largely for Sevens)

So they get 5 Million in Grant Money (so not really revenue) more like an allowance, one thing I've always been told about allowances is you should never rely on them as a form of income. If anything, these should be considered as discretionary spending and should be treated as such.

Membership
Insurance - 700k
Registration - 952k

So they make roughly 1.75 million off the Rugby Canada members.

Rugby Canada Revenues

Sponsorship - 1.6 Million
Fundraising - 329k
Donations - 729k
Domestic Competitions - 301k
International Events - 1.3 Million
National Teams - 1.89 Million
Development (Coaching & Refereeing) - 156k
Merchandise Sales - 715k
Rebate - 25k
Other - 209K

Revenue from Controlled Orgs - 1.1 Million


Expenses:

Accounting/legal/professional fess - 160k
Amortization - 114k
Bad debt - 26k
Board of Directors and Planning Meetings - 220k
Domestic Competitions - 591k
Donations - 470k
Fundraising - 166k
HP Centre - 114k
International Events - 1.2 Million
National Insurance - 806k
National office & general admin - 897k
Registration - 15k
National Teams - 7 million
Marketing - 462k
Program Development - 621k
Purchase of Merchandise Items - 399k
Short term interest, bank charges /exchange - 130k
Staff Salaries, Benefits & Commissions - 1.6 million

The Union did break even; however, it didn't when you take in to account that 5 Million of the 15 Million in Revenue it received is completely discretionary and cannot be relied upon from year to year. You could even go further and lump donations and sponsorships in there to see that when you add those to the 5 Million Rugby Canada gets from Sport Canada and World Rugby, you are left with 7 Million or just shy of 45% of the budget being completely discretionary. It also has a bigger problem in that it's national teams are costing three times the amount of money compared to the amount of money they are bringing in. because of this, Rugby Canada's financial position is completely tied to how it performs year to year.

Now without going in to a Forensic Accounting, you can look at these expenses and realize the simple answer is the National Programs must start making more money or Rugby Canada must begin by reducing costs drastically by cutting the National Program scope and Probably slashing salaries by 50%. It also doesn't look good when you are an organization with 50 employees and spend 220k on Board of Directors and Planning Meetings. I work for the largest government organization in Canada and have been intimately involved in planning major meetings of key stakeholders, any event we plan that costs over 25k requires Ministerial Approval and we utilize Telecons a lot to keep those costs below that threshold. Pretty good for an organization with almost 100k employees. When you take all of these numbers in to account and look at where the money comes from, you realize Rugby Canada spends double the amount of money it actually brings in. It's like the Greece of World Rugby.

Posts: 852
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 09 Apr 2018, 20:00

So basically you have an under-developed philanthropic arm. You need to have to CEO and Board chair hosting dinners and getting checks from people who seem to like Rugby. It's called being a non-profit and member organization. The National Team is not a member service. So membership fees shouldn't go to subsidizing that. The National team is supposed to be a revenue generator. Good crowds against Maori and Uruguay led to how much in the bank account? Our Finances are shit down here to, but you can't tell me that your board doesn't have any friends to shake down for money

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], Canalina, Google Adsense [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], sammo and 15 guests