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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 15:33

Armchair Fan wrote:Final repechage is supposed to be a round robin tournament, not a play-off.


That likely helps the stronger sides then. Protects them from a shock result in the semi.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 15:39

Final repechage is supposed to be a round robin tournament, not a play-off.


Any official reference about that?
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 15:43

I suspect the America's #2 leg will come down to aggregate. Los Teros are very much a Tier 3 side when they travel but play like a Tier 2 side at home. I think Canada need to get all the pro's out to Vancouver and beat the snot out of Uruguay at home. Head down to Montevideo and hang on for dear life.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 16:30

LittleGuy wrote:I suspect the America's #2 leg will come down to aggregate. Los Teros are very much a Tier 3 side when they travel but play like a Tier 2 side at home. I think Canada need to get all the pro's out to Vancouver and beat the snot out of Uruguay at home. Head down to Montevideo and hang on for dear life.


The question is, how likely are we to get our pros during Six Nations season...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 16:36

victorsra wrote:
Final repechage is supposed to be a round robin tournament, not a play-off.


Any official reference about that?

"One repechage qualifier: The repechage tournament will feature four teams playing in a round-robin format with the winners qualifying for RWC 2019 – Repechage tournament"
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/process

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 16:55

GentsRugger wrote:
RivalBlue wrote:So...what do we change (on and off field) from now to the Uruguay series?

Not a change but Rugby Canada needs to beg the pro clubs that have Canadian players to release our players for the January/February series against Uruguay. If we don't have them I don't think we have much of a chance.



Bullshit... Everything needs to change. The USA are in the exact same boat as us and they SHIT KICK us, We suck and i am on the verge of not caring about the mens game anymore

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 17:02

RugbyPUBtbilisi wrote:Not a bad idea to go through Repechage and play Italy and Namibia in Pool B
or play Georgia and Fiji in Pool D.



I agree, but we have no right thinking we can even qualify for the world cup. We Suck.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 17:05

LittleGuy wrote:I suspect the America's #2 leg will come down to aggregate. Los Teros are very much a Tier 3 side when they travel but play like a Tier 2 side at home. I think Canada need to get all the pro's out to Vancouver and beat the snot out of Uruguay at home. Head down to Montevideo and hang on for dear life.



We just played like a tier 3 country at home and a Tier 4 country away, we were that bad.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 18:19

"One repechage qualifier: The repechage tournament will feature four teams playing in a round-robin format with the winners qualifying for RWC 2019 – Repechage tournament"
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/qualifying/process


Thanks!
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby BigG » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 18:32

No matter which team plays like t2 or t3, I predict tough play-off games. As far as winner will play at WC in the same group with Georgia I keep an eye on both teams. At the moment chances are 51/49 in Canada's favor. However, there is a long way (about 6 months) before decider games. Let's wait.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby GentsRugger » Sun, 02 Jul 2017, 20:24

snapper37 wrote:Bullshit... Everything needs to change. The USA are in the exact same boat as us and they SHIT KICK us, We suck and i am on the verge of not caring about the mens game anymore

Yes I agree everything needs to change. We all know that. The point I was trying to make is I don't think we can change enough in 6 months to make a difference. Firing the coach or anything else probably won't change what the outcome will be in 6 months time. We need to try to qualify for the RWC and then go from there. It's all a mess either way.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 02:23

Keep Anscome (for now); Fire everyone else.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 13:05

I've been coaching junior rugby all summer at the U16 level. Canada's biggest problem is talent identification, coaching and amateurism, full stop. Marvinparsons is spot on when he says the game is a disaster at the junior/club level. I'm in Kingston and we are the ONLY club in Eastern Ontario that is growing. My club has three senior men's sides and an old boys side, two women's sides, U14, U16, U18 boys sides and U16, U18 women's sides. We've got enough at each junior level to almost make two teams each.

Right now I've got four kids on my team that are top-notch athletes and players but they will never get a look for a number of reasons, I'll explain:

1. The first kid is our scrumhalf, the kid is 15, not a big guy but very athletic. He has a good kick, a great pass for his age, excellent vision, is quick to every breakdown and does a great job marshalling the team and directing the game. His parents don't have endless amounts of money though so he can't commit to driving to Ottawa for "Hub" tryouts, additional fees, etc. on top of club dues and all our other games. He also plays Ice Hockey which is his first sport so there is that as well.

2. The second kid I had started playing at fullback but have now moved to flyhalf. He is by far the most skilled player we have. Not that big yet but is fast, has a great pass, great kick, is an excellent tackler (he is a standout high school wrestler and is a provincial finalist). The kid has some great potential and he also loves the sport. The problem we have again is he has to travel to Ottawa to play Rep rugby and I couldn't get a selector/scout down here even if I sent gameplay footage of this kid.

3. The third kid is what I would call one of my project players. He is a standout high school football tight end. A big kid but very athletic, he played rugby for the first time this spring at school where they had him playing inside centre. He was the top try scorer in the league and just ran other boys over. The problem I see with this is that in high school rugby here, teams are only really concerned with winning and the coaching is often sub-standard. Players get put in a position they may be most suitable for when the lone strategy is trying to run each other over. I've since moved him to flanker and he's a force to be reckoned with. We played an Ottawa team last weekend and he devastated winning tones of turnover ball at the ruck and got plenty of runs still with the ball often breaking two or three tackles in the process. If I were to pick a kid that could eventually go on to bigger things in this sport, this kid would be it. The problem is he can't go to "hub" tryouts as they fall usually on Sundays. The reason is he is Mormon and those days are reserved for church. I would love to get a scout down here to watch him play but that's not how it works here in Canada, "we don't come to you, you come to us"

4. The last kid has never played rugby before and his positioning and game sense is pretty bad, he is very raw. Even so, he scored two tries last game on the wing. The thing I haven't told you yet is he is one of the top running backs in Ontario high school football. He runs like Jeff Hassler and once he gets the ball is very hard to stop. He is another player who will never get a look because nobody will come to our games, we need to go to them. Truth be told, he only just started playing rugby and I think he likes football better but he could be a legit force on the field with the right coaching.

So there you have it, out of my team of 29 kids, I've got four that could very well be legit Provincial Age Grade players but they will never get a look for a variety of reasons. Until we fix this, we will continue to run out the wrong players. If you include high school rugby (high school players aren't counted as registered through Rugby Canada), we've got nearly 100,000 rugby players in Canada. There is no reason we should not be beating Romania, Georgia, etc.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby sammo » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 13:29

Canadian_Rugger wrote:I've been coaching junior rugby all summer at the U16 level. Canada's biggest problem is talent identification, coaching and amateurism, full stop. Marvinparsons is spot on when he says the game is a disaster at the junior/club level. I'm in Kingston and we are the ONLY club in Eastern Ontario that is growing. My club has three senior men's sides and an old boys side, two women's sides, U14, U16, U18 boys sides and U16, U18 women's sides. We've got enough at each junior level to almost make two teams each.

Right now I've got four kids on my team that are top-notch athletes and players but they will never get a look for a number of reasons, I'll explain:

1. The first kid is our scrumhalf, the kid is 15, not a big guy but very athletic. He has a good kick, a great pass for his age, excellent vision, is quick to every breakdown and does a great job marshalling the team and directing the game. His parents don't have endless amounts of money though so he can't commit to driving to Ottawa for "Hub" tryouts, additional fees, etc. on top of club dues and all our other games. He also plays Ice Hockey which is his first sport so there is that as well.

2. The second kid I had started playing at fullback but have now moved to flyhalf. He is by far the most skilled player we have. Not that big yet but is fast, has a great pass, great kick, is an excellent tackler (he is a standout high school wrestler and is a provincial finalist). The kid has some great potential and he also loves the sport. The problem we have again is he has to travel to Ottawa to play Rep rugby and I couldn't get a selector/scout down here even if I sent gameplay footage of this kid.

3. The third kid is what I would call one of my project players. He is a standout high school football tight end. A big kid but very athletic, he played rugby for the first time this spring at school where they had him playing inside centre. He was the top try scorer in the league and just ran other boys over. The problem I see with this is that in high school rugby here, teams are only really concerned with winning and the coaching is often sub-standard. Players get put in a position they may be most suitable for when the lone strategy is trying to run each other over. I've since moved him to flanker and he's a force to be reckoned with. We played an Ottawa team last weekend and he devastated winning tones of turnover ball at the ruck and got plenty of runs still with the ball often breaking two or three tackles in the process. If I were to pick a kid that could eventually go on to bigger things in this sport, this kid would be it. The problem is he can't go to "hub" tryouts as they fall usually on Sundays. The reason is he is Mormon and those days are reserved for church. I would love to get a scout down here to watch him play but that's not how it works here in Canada, "we don't come to you, you come to us"

4. The last kid has never played rugby before and his positioning and game sense is pretty bad, he is very raw. Even so, he scored two tries last game on the wing. The thing I haven't told you yet is he is one of the top running backs in Ontario high school football. He runs like Jeff Hassler and once he gets the ball is very hard to stop. He is another player who will never get a look because nobody will come to our games, we need to go to them. Truth be told, he only just started playing rugby and I think he likes football better but he could be a legit force on the field with the right coaching.

So there you have it, out of my team of 29 kids, I've got four that could very well be legit Provincial Age Grade players but they will never get a look for a variety of reasons. Until we fix this, we will continue to run out the wrong players. If you include high school rugby (high school players aren't counted as registered through Rugby Canada), we've got nearly 100,000 rugby players in Canada. There is no reason we should not be beating Romania, Georgia, etc.


What solutions would you propose that would allow these kids to get a look in?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby iul » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 15:39

Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby RivalBlue » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 18:19

Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.


It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 18:57


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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 19:50

RivalBlue wrote:Canadian_Rugger, thank you for contributing to the game here in Ontario! I think you bring up some great points, however it seems it all comes down to geographical issues and where you are located. Ontario is just so huge and I think we all face travel issues at all levels. I do expect Rugby Ontario to address these issues in the coming years though. It would be interesting to hear what you would do to get your players noticed.

Also in other news, Ontario Blues just beat The Rock 29-17 in Peterborough. Quite a few players were missing for the Blues.

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.


It would be up to the PSO, not Rugby Canada...so in this case Rugby Ontario. Fees are usually waived by the club as it is what my club did for me when I was a junior.


I've got a bunch of ideas, some of which I've been noting. I will draft up a very comprehensive response tonight.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 21:55

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.

We have the same problem down south.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby 2cents » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 22:16

GentsRugger wrote:
snapper37 wrote:Bullshit... Everything needs to change. The USA are in the exact same boat as us and they SHIT KICK us, We suck and i am on the verge of not caring about the mens game anymore

Yes I agree everything needs to change. We all know that. The point I was trying to make is I don't think we can change enough in 6 months to make a difference. Firing the coach or anything else probably won't change what the outcome will be in 6 months time. We need to try to qualify for the RWC and then go from there. It's all a mess either way.


The board should resign(but stay on only in a caretaker only way until new leader selected).. and then they can start the process of selecting new leadership and bring in someone from OUTSIDE RC so the new broom cleans out all the shit. This doesn't have to be ugly or seen as a detrimental thing. Everyone recognizes that the status quo hasn't been working for quite some time. Blow it up and bring in some fresh air.

But start the process now... then the players aren't distracted and there isn't a haze around hiring\firings. No way the coach should be fired, he can only work with what he is given. This guy is a world class coach.. the head needs to be chopped clean off and then start fresh with a proven outsider.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 03 Jul 2017, 23:24

iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.


The problem is that it's Rugby Canada's opinion that this development is the job of the provinces, and not them. Hence why our "system" is so disjointed.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby olivier » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 14:41

Are we sure Canada will host the first leg of playoff ?
If yes, will it be in BC Place ?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 16:26

Canada Coaching Staff:

Mark Anscombe – Head Coach

Graeme Moffat – Assistant Coach

Mike Shelley – Assistant Coach

Kelly Brown – Assistant Coach

Mark Winokur – Manager

Alana Gattinger - Logistics Manager

Mallory White – Athletic Therapist

Alistair Wilson – Athletic Therapist

Dr. Peet Du Toit – Team Doctor

Aaron Takel – Performance Analyst

Calum Ramsay - Performance Analyst

Michael Deasy – Strength & Conditioning Coach



Do we need 4 Coaches? What has Mike Shelley ever done to be there, When he ran the U20 team they went nowhere.

And the It will be interesting to see what the Performance analyst have to say. Two of them......

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 18:51

sammo wrote:
Canadian_Rugger wrote:I've been coaching junior rugby all summer at the U16 level. Canada's biggest problem is talent identification, coaching and amateurism, full stop. Marvinparsons is spot on when he says the game is a disaster at the junior/club level. I'm in Kingston and we are the ONLY club in Eastern Ontario that is growing. My club has three senior men's sides and an old boys side, two women's sides, U14, U16, U18 boys sides and U16, U18 women's sides. We've got enough at each junior level to almost make two teams each.

Right now I've got four kids on my team that are top-notch athletes and players but they will never get a look for a number of reasons, I'll explain:

1. The first kid is our scrumhalf, the kid is 15, not a big guy but very athletic. He has a good kick, a great pass for his age, excellent vision, is quick to every breakdown and does a great job marshalling the team and directing the game. His parents don't have endless amounts of money though so he can't commit to driving to Ottawa for "Hub" tryouts, additional fees, etc. on top of club dues and all our other games. He also plays Ice Hockey which is his first sport so there is that as well.

2. The second kid I had started playing at fullback but have now moved to flyhalf. He is by far the most skilled player we have. Not that big yet but is fast, has a great pass, great kick, is an excellent tackler (he is a standout high school wrestler and is a provincial finalist). The kid has some great potential and he also loves the sport. The problem we have again is he has to travel to Ottawa to play Rep rugby and I couldn't get a selector/scout down here even if I sent gameplay footage of this kid.

3. The third kid is what I would call one of my project players. He is a standout high school football tight end. A big kid but very athletic, he played rugby for the first time this spring at school where they had him playing inside centre. He was the top try scorer in the league and just ran other boys over. The problem I see with this is that in high school rugby here, teams are only really concerned with winning and the coaching is often sub-standard. Players get put in a position they may be most suitable for when the lone strategy is trying to run each other over. I've since moved him to flanker and he's a force to be reckoned with. We played an Ottawa team last weekend and he devastated winning tones of turnover ball at the ruck and got plenty of runs still with the ball often breaking two or three tackles in the process. If I were to pick a kid that could eventually go on to bigger things in this sport, this kid would be it. The problem is he can't go to "hub" tryouts as they fall usually on Sundays. The reason is he is Mormon and those days are reserved for church. I would love to get a scout down here to watch him play but that's not how it works here in Canada, "we don't come to you, you come to us"

4. The last kid has never played rugby before and his positioning and game sense is pretty bad, he is very raw. Even so, he scored two tries last game on the wing. The thing I haven't told you yet is he is one of the top running backs in Ontario high school football. He runs like Jeff Hassler and once he gets the ball is very hard to stop. He is another player who will never get a look because nobody will come to our games, we need to go to them. Truth be told, he only just started playing rugby and I think he likes football better but he could be a legit force on the field with the right coaching.

So there you have it, out of my team of 29 kids, I've got four that could very well be legit Provincial Age Grade players but they will never get a look for a variety of reasons. Until we fix this, we will continue to run out the wrong players. If you include high school rugby (high school players aren't counted as registered through Rugby Canada), we've got nearly 100,000 rugby players in Canada. There is no reason we should not be beating Romania, Georgia, etc.


What solutions would you propose that would allow these kids to get a look in?


Selection for representative teams that doesn't require travel. Send game tape, take the coaches word, allot a certain number of spots based on how the club team performs, or have the selectors travel.

Also, bring in touring sides and have them travel around Canada rather than making people travel literally thousands of kilometres for games.

Do not make select teams practice as a condition of selection. Think of it as an all-star team, not a team you regularly play on, like the ba bas. Put energy into improvement for clubs and individual players (fitness etc).

I played in the top Quebec league for 6 years or so. I wouldn't even know their names, but I could EASILY tell you the top 22 guys in that league. Probably 4 of them end up on representative sides.

Contact outstanding players and entice them.

My Ottawa club, by pure fluke, had a kiwi fullback that was in town for a bit. He was on the New Zealand national sprint team at one time, was only 22 and liked Canada. He was the best player in the FRQ and has since played for the Kiwi national defense team and is the MVP of his team a level below Mitre 10. Nobody even had a clue he was here or contacted him to say " hey maybe want to stick around in Canada and probably pay for our national sevens team"?

Our club had two guys play u20 Canada. They come back to Ottawa, not exactly Timbuktu, but can't affoerd to travel to try outs or move to Victoria. It's stupid.

For junior rugby we have situations where one club has 50 players and all the others 17. It should be pretty obvious that we'd be better off with six teams of 25.

Those are some easy fixes right there.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Tue, 04 Jul 2017, 18:55

ruckovercdn wrote:
iul wrote:Maybe Canada Rugby could give each club a couple of "tickets" to send players to these regional tryouts on Canada Rugby's expense, instead of having to pass the cost to the players.


The problem is that it's Rugby Canada's opinion that this development is the job of the provinces, and not them. Hence why our "system" is so disjointed.


The buck is always passed down. There needs to be a coherent national strategy that goes from top to bottom acknowledging the realities of Canada.

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