Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Canadian rugby

Posts: 16
Joined: Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 18:20
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Tue, 07 Nov 2017, 17:45

Looks like Adam Kleeburger is back in the rugby sphere.

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsl ... age=101969

Posts: 259
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 00:08

mb.rugger89 wrote:Looks like Adam Kleeburger is back in the rugby sphere.

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsl ... age=101969



Stupid,, Once again RC is working in a top down system. Instead of working on elite kids,Rc should be working on getting more kids involved.

Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 17:54
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 00:35

Every once in a while we line up snapper. This doesnt make a whole lot of sense. 11 kids is too small a number to be meaningful, and its location means that its not accessible for a large population group. Theyd be better off putting money/ effort into a travelling salesman type position that goes oit to provincial high performance programs.

Posts: 36
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 04:46

ruckovercdn wrote:Every once in a while we line up snapper. This doesnt make a whole lot of sense. 11 kids is too small a number to be meaningful, and its location means that its not accessible for a large population group. Theyd be better off putting money/ effort into a travelling salesman type position that goes oit to provincial high performance programs.


I advocated for the latter option a few years ago and I haven't heard that their development people are doing that at all.

There's some pretty solid research on talent development and for a late development sport like rugby, it's such a gamble. There are not just physical but also mental aspects that can't be predicted. There's a South African study that actually tracked U13s to U18s showing only small percentages get selected for the next level (and I'd be very interested to know how many of those U18s actually went pro, let alone became Boks). Joe Launchbury is a great example: cut by Quins at 18, starred for England U20 just over a year later, selected by England not long after. We need to not only get more kids playing and sticking with the game longer, but provide regular coach support in all corners.

I referee in some areas far from the eyes of my province's big wigs and there are some real physical specimens out there who deserve better education (not to mention their coaches who can't afford to drive 5 hours for that one course a year that doesn't offer them much more than they already know).

Posts: 26
Joined: Tue, 29 Sep 2015, 21:25
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Was_a_Kat » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 14:08

This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.

Posts: 1528
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 14:12

mb.rugger89 wrote:Looks like Adam Kleeburger is back in the rugby sphere.

http://www.rugbycanada.ca/leagues/newsl ... age=101969


Jobs for the boys. I would encourage someone to track this program over the next few years and see how many senior internationals it actually produces.

User avatar
Posts: 261
Joined: Sat, 14 Mar 2015, 03:36
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby rusty_lock » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 14:39

My source tells me the funding for this program came from WR and was specifically designated by them. It affects 9 girls and 3 boys. It's not going to make a single difference to to the mens 15's now or ever. It was free money so they created a program and spent it. The best thing with it is that Kleebs get as job and he will probably get to give some of his time, paid for by WR, to the centralized program athletes.

Posts: 259
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 18:24

Was_a_Kat wrote:This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.



This is exactly what needs to be done, A U23 league so we can have late bloomers playing against their peers longer. It doesn't benefit anybody by having them playing against men. ( the elite U23 (Barton) can move up and play against the stronger competition

Posts: 259
Joined: Sun, 06 Dec 2015, 06:42
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 18:27

rusty_lock wrote:My source tells me the funding for this program came from WR and was specifically designated by them. It affects 9 girls and 3 boys. It's not going to make a single difference to to the mens 15's now or ever. It was free money so they created a program and spent it. The best thing with it is that Kleebs get as job and he will probably get to give some of his time, paid for by WR, to the centralized program athletes.



I know one of the kids in this program is only there because their family is billeting one the out of province kids (hardly elite) It's been said somewhere else that these kids will not be able to play for the school team as they are a elite team centred at a neighbourhood school. passing drills are great, but kids need games also

Posts: 1803
Joined: Wed, 16 Apr 2014, 19:00
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Coloradoan » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 20:33

snapper37 wrote:
Was_a_Kat wrote:This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.



This is exactly what needs to be done, A U23 league so we can have late bloomers playing against their peers longer. It doesn't benefit anybody by having them playing against men. ( the elite U23 (Barton) can move up and play against the stronger competition


If there is so much interest in U23 rugby, why aren't you out there organizing a U23 team that can play matches against university teams?

Posts: 424
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 08 Nov 2017, 20:51

Watching your 7s side this past week was very enjoyable. Great group of young players in the wings champing at the bit to break into the regular side. I like how you basically looked like a Hockey team. Reminded me of how Emil Signes selected 7s players, big, powerful and fast.

Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 17:54
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Thu, 09 Nov 2017, 18:35

Can some one explain why George Barton isnt in this squad ? Hes looked great at mens level and in the off chance we make the RWC hes some one that a back line can be built around.



Canada’s Men’s Team to face Georgia:

1. Djustice Sears-Duru – (Ealing Trailfinders/Ontario Blues) Oakville, ON
2. Ray Barkwill – (Seattle Seawolves/Ontario Blues) Niagara Falls, ON
3. Jake Ilnicki – (Newcastle Falcons/BC Bears) Williams Lake, BC
4. Josh Larsen – (Northland) Parksville, BC
5. Evan Olmstead – (Newcastle Falcons/Prairie Wolf Pack) Vancouver, BC
6. Lucas Rumball – (Balmy Beach RFC/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
7. Matt Heaton – (Darlington Mowden Park/Atlantic Rock) Godmanchester, QC
8. Tyler Ardron – (Chiefs/Ontario Blues) Lakefield, ON
9. Phil Mack – Captain (James Bay AA/BC Bears) Victoria, BC
10. Patrick Parfrey – (Swilers RFC/Atlantic Rock) St. John’s, NL
11. Taylor Paris – (Castres/Ontario Blues) Barrie, ON
12. Ciaran Hearn – (London Irish/Atlantic Rock) Conception Bay South, NL
13. DTH van der Merwe – (Newcastle Falcons) Victoria, BC
14. Brock Staller – (Meralomas RFC/BC Bears) Surrey, BC
15. Andrew Coe – (Markham Irish/Ontario Blues) Toronto, ON
16. Eric Howard – (Brantford Harlequins/Ontario Blues) Ottawa, ON
17. Anthony Luca – (Burnaby Lake RFC/BC Bears) Pitt Meadows, BC
18. Cole Keith – (James Bay AA/Atlantic Rock) Sussex, NB
19. Kyle Baillie – (London Scottish/Atlantic Rock) Summerside, PEI
20. Conor Keys – (UVIC Vikes/Atlantic Rock) Stittsville, ON
21. Kyle Gilmour – (St. Albert RFC/Prairie Wolf Pack) St. Albert, AB
22. Andrew Ferguson – (Oakville Crusaders/Ontario Blues) Mississauga, ON
23. Guiseppe du Toit – (UVIC Vikes/BC Bears) Maple Ridge, BC

Posts: 16
Joined: Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 18:20
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Thu, 09 Nov 2017, 20:05

Looking at our squad, it amazes me how few players are playing outside of Canada! How big of a problem is this for the future of rugby here?

On another note as a club president in manitoba, I have noticed a saddening trend at least in manitoba. According to our provincial head, we have record numbers of kids playing around the province. However our senior league is suffering, over the past 7 years we have seen numbers drop dramatically, a few clubs have folded, others have dropped teams or merged.

How many other provinces are going through similar problems?

Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 17:54
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Thu, 09 Nov 2017, 20:19

I think adult recreational sports are on a decline across the board. There is definetley a drop off though. Lots of guys playing a season as an 18yr old and not coming back as the school and work pressure becomes greater.

Regarding guys playing overseas... yeah i think its an issue. Ill be surprised if Coe walks away from this tour without a contract though.

Posts: 223
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Fri, 10 Nov 2017, 03:33

I noticed this and dug through some annual reports and in Eastern Ontario (Ottawa to Kingston) and there were about 25% less adults playing between 2005ish to 2015. Only a few clubs folded, but less games/tournaments etc...mainly as there are less people to play in them. So yeah, a big decrease. I partly blame this on club rugby not being at all part of the rugby canada/provincial evaluation process. It diminishes club rugby and then people don't want to put in time/effort for a "non-serious" level of sport.

Overall I think people tend to view sports these days as professions rather than hobbies, so if you haven't "made it" by the time you are 20 the impulse is just to quit altogether. I remember reading that the same thing has happened in Ireland with adult rugby, but unlike Ireland we don't have pro or semi-pro teams so it also kills our national side since even the top 5% of players end up quitting instead of being channeled to a professional side (see McKenzie, Phil). If you aren't a pro you are basically considered to be wasting your time. If you just become a runner/fitness geek though that's considered not wasting time as you are getting healthier, at least that's how I think the logic goes.

On top of this though you've got a brutal economy for young people, increased cost of rugby (again the unions/insurance), more competing sports (ultimate, BJJ, touch football, MMA, powerlifting etc.), a reduced boozing culture and worries about concussions.

I would be willing to bet that the average dues in Canada for rugby are more than anywhere else on this planet. This has to have an impact on aggregate numbers at some point.

Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 17:54
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Fri, 10 Nov 2017, 04:13

I think you nailed it with cost. I'd love to see an average cost per player analysis over that drop off period. 425-500 is a lot of money for a 20yr old to throw at what's essentially entertainment.

Posts: 36
Joined: Tue, 28 Feb 2017, 03:39
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 03:35

ruckovercdn wrote:I think you nailed it with cost. I'd love to see an average cost per player analysis over that drop off period. 425-500 is a lot of money for a 20yr old to throw at what's essentially entertainment.


Not to mention our geography adding to the cost with away game drives, and even home games if you're one of the poor saps in the Ottawa region who has to drive 30kms out of town to your home pitch.

Posts: 1408
Joined: Wed, 14 Oct 2015, 13:30
National Flag:
GermanyGermany

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 13:48

Interview with Canadian-German Dustin Dobravsky.
Why he chose Canada after playing all his rugby until German U18 team in Germany.
http://www.totalrugby.de/content/view/9186/36/
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

Posts: 16
Joined: Sat, 10 Oct 2015, 18:20
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 15:57

After such a dismal loss, I can't wait to see how rugby canada reacts!

Also, what happened to McRorie? Is he injured or something?

Posts: 760
Joined: Mon, 02 Jun 2014, 03:08
Location: Ontario
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Sat, 11 Nov 2017, 17:10

mb.rugger89 wrote:After such a dismal loss, I can't wait to see how rugby canada reacts!

Also, what happened to McRorie? Is he injured or something?


I only saw him listed as "unavailable" honestly him out of position at FH would be a HUGE upgrade over Parfrey. I have complaints with McRorie but he's a functional player.

Posts: 49
Joined: Wed, 23 Jul 2014, 00:30
National Flag:
Vatican StateVatican State

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby MikeN » Mon, 13 Nov 2017, 00:58

marvinparsons wrote:My God, the only chance is that the game slows down enough to limit the damage. That is the worst Canadian back line in a full test that I think I've ever seen.


Please excuse this if it's a silly question but do clubs have to release players for games vs Maori Allblacks? I mean, given that it's not a test match.

Posts: 223
Joined: Fri, 14 Aug 2015, 13:58
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Mon, 13 Nov 2017, 01:28

MikeN wrote:
marvinparsons wrote:My God, the only chance is that the game slows down enough to limit the damage. That is the worst Canadian back line in a full test that I think I've ever seen.


Please excuse this if it's a silly question but do clubs have to release players for games vs Maori Allblacks? I mean, given that it's not a test match.


All clubs are VERY amateur, I doubt they even have the ability to do so if they were so inclined. There are probably national team players that still pony up dues every season.

Posts: 1528
Joined: Wed, 30 Apr 2014, 16:57

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby 4N » Mon, 13 Nov 2017, 15:40

Sorry to be negative, but the Ontario Arrows logo is terrible. Especially compared to the Wolfpack.

Image

User avatar
Posts: 434
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 16:02
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Mon, 13 Nov 2017, 16:35

I wouldn't be surprised to see a revamp of this before the first season. A few MLR teams have done a rebrand or logo update. Unfortunately they are going to get compared to the WP every step of the way, and they have the advantages of being first in the market, and having done extremely well at media and branding.
Norfolk Harvesters RFC 10-0-0 NRU "B" Division Champions

Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed, 25 Feb 2015, 17:54
National Flag:
CanadaCanada

Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ruckovercdn » Mon, 13 Nov 2017, 19:20

Rugby Canada just posted on Facebook about a series of changes with regards to the organization. Including the director of rugby being changed.

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], dropkick, IanCleverly and 11 guests