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Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Tue, 01 May 2018, 18:26

But, but, but ... they've been doing renos lately (so say the calls for volunteers I've seen on social media).

On one hand, I have to commend those who want to keep alive an ambitious project they helped build, and those who've had some good memories there ... but I think Twin Elm should be left to die. I can't count the number of times I've had a conversation with someone who didn't know Ottawa had rugby and was interested in either joining as a player or keen spectator, only to have them say "Oh..." and see the interest fade from their face once they realised where home games are.

On paper, it should be a good home for Barrhaven, yet look how well they're doing with facilities smack-dab within their community. I'm not sure if there are insurmountable barriers with the City, but if open to negotiation, the central clubs should look at Brewer Park. I'm sure there are 'Barrhaven-like' facilities in the East and West for Irish and Ospreys (Can soccer and football really have a stranglehold on all field space?). I'm sure everyone's sponsors would rather have the bulk of all squads turn up to the pub on game day.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Tue, 01 May 2018, 21:17

Sell the lower bowl at TD Place, like they did at THF last year. 13k and was a great atmosphere
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby LittleGuy » Tue, 01 May 2018, 23:31

grande wrote:Two years in a row without a game in the largest city in Canada.


In fairness Hamilton isn't all that far from Toronto, it's about an hours drive from downtown Toronto to Tim Horton field in Hamilton, and even closer for people in the South Western suburbs like Oakville, Burlington.

That being said I have a feeling this year's backwater test locations are a financial situation, I suspect Rugby Canada can't afford to rent more than one of the CFL/MLS stadiums.

Commonwealth is OK, but will look ludicrous with maybe 15k at the game since it's overly large, and it's almost certainly the 2nd worst of all the CFL/MLS stadiums now, only ahead of Calgary's MacMahon.

The other two locations are incredibly meh. Especially Ottawa's. At least the Atlantic haven't had a full test in ages and I think the Glasgow - Canada RWC Warm-Up is the only game at all played their in some time.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Wed, 02 May 2018, 00:24

I've spent a lot of time at Twin Elm and unfortunately it's an albatross that needs to die. Between TERP and Rugby Canada the clubs in Ottawa are perennially broke. It isn't good for the sport in the region.

As far as the international game at TERP it isn't actually THAT bad of a place to watch a game, distance from town notwithstanding. All the facilities are outdoors (porta potties mind you...and beer tents) so you don't have to go in the decrepit building. For the players it is an absolutely fine place to play a game. The front pitch is in good shape and a change room is a change room. This is Russia and Canada, half their club games they probably change on the side of the field.

But in terms of growing the game/exposure you aren't getting any new fans to a game at TERP. Mostly just the same old rugby crowd.

A local guy that's buds with Tim Powers was posting on Facebook asking if anyone knew an international quality venue in Ottawa aside from TERP. I guess the answer is no.

With proper marketing I think even Russia could sell 10,000-20,000 at TD, but it's probably a higher risk considering it costs a lot and TERP, for all its faults, is free. No sign that Rugby Canada is growing the game or doing anything productive.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 02 May 2018, 01:48

Why not play the match at the home ground of where the Arrows will play next year? The stadium is state of the art with about 4,000 seats, running track notwithstanding.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 03:42

https://rugby.ca/en/news/2018/04/chair- ... nt-webinar

Did anybody hear about this? I checked their facebook page, nothing at all about it there. I don't have twitter, so couldn't verify if it was posted there. Lovely way to get the community way involved...maybe if they actually advertised it, they would have the feedback that needs to be heard.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby mb.rugger89 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 03:46


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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Wed, 02 May 2018, 13:38

mb.rugger89 wrote:https://rugby.ca/en/news/2018/04/chair-of-the-board-ceo-community-engagement-webinar

Did anybody hear about this? I checked their facebook page, nothing at all about it there. I don't have twitter, so couldn't verify if it was posted there. Lovely way to get the community way involved...maybe if they actually advertised it, they would have the feedback that needs to be heard.


They mentioned it on Twitter, yeah. Did anyone "attend?" I'm curious what happened.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Wed, 02 May 2018, 15:40

mb.rugger89 wrote:http://theprovince.com/sports/rugby/williams-lakes-jake-ilnicki-heads-to-leeds

Jake Illnicki staying in England.



He might as well go the RC training centre In Langford, he seems to be getting as much playing time in England as the RC players are getting in Langford. #allweightsandnoplaymakesyoubetter #pinerider #kettlebellsmakeyouabetterprop #

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Wed, 02 May 2018, 21:23

grande wrote:
mb.rugger89 wrote:https://rugby.ca/en/news/2018/04/chair-of-the-board-ceo-community-engagement-webinar

Did anybody hear about this? I checked their facebook page, nothing at all about it there. I don't have twitter, so couldn't verify if it was posted there. Lovely way to get the community way involved...maybe if they actually advertised it, they would have the feedback that needs to be heard.


They mentioned it on Twitter, yeah. Did anyone "attend?" I'm curious what happened.



It's working after the fact ... hope I'm not about to waste an hour on this.

Well that was a lot of "we're listening" and "we intend to these vague things in the future". Am a tiny bit hopeful that the strategic plan to be released next year has some positive things on it.

... oh, nope. I'm raging now.

Near the end they're saying developing high school aged players is about bringing them onto the "pathway". An investment in "high performance" coaches for those working within the pathway programs. Nothing about school / club coaches, which should be a major provincial thing, sure. Even said RC could "empower by stepping back", but they need to set a well-researched standard curriculum for learning that brings the quality of the average player up. All we've been doing is taking a narrow bunch of decent kids who can afford it and hope for the best (don't want to offend by saying 'polish a turd' but the kids that are in these programs aren't all going on to be internationals). Without better competition at the lower levels, the 'best' will never be pushed until they are getting their butts kicked by Belgium or Hong Kong.

Some great food for thought in this (and click below to read more of his thoughts on the 'pathway model'): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAytQI-MdvI

And a great statement from world renowned coach / teacher educator, Mark Bennett MBE (from some tweets he made the other day):

...it continues to confirm that we don't lack coaches that want to grow, but we do lack the support/structure to develop the software/the how of coaching and the coach support for change post intervention. Organisations still seem to think that training days/CPD days are all coaches need, believing that once coaches obtain new information that they can simply go away and integrate into their present behaviours. The truth is that people need true support to facilitate change; they must still own it, but that human support to challenge and keep people 'honest' is critical. "The best athlete development is coach development"


Liked how they gave themselves a 'D' on communication re: the fee levy, yet (and a friend pointed this out to me) that the webinar was run on a rugby training night. :lol: :thumbdown:

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Thu, 03 May 2018, 00:49

To me the answer is so mind numbingly obvious: we need strong leagues that filter the best players to the top. That should be the focus and RC should do what they can to facilitate it.

As an example a player I coached in high school is now 24 or so. He was a AAA hockey player. Big and fast, star rugbt player. In Ottawa he saw no future in rugby and barely played - he'd sign up but only play here and there. Since then he moved to the USA South and is on a team that is in the national club championship and he is gung ho for rugby because his league actually means something i.e. not a joke. Presumably if he plays well he'll move up a level or get noticed. Even if he doesn't he contributes to providing a higher level of play/competition for those who do and would inspire younger guys to play rugby and take it seriously. In Canada our structures are so bad this same player can barely even be bothered to register. I'd bet my left nut he's faster/stronger than Pat Parfrey, even with a day job.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Used2BwithIt » Thu, 03 May 2018, 12:27

marvinparsons wrote:To me the answer is so mind numbingly obvious: we need strong leagues that filter the best players to the top. That should be the focus and RC should do what they can to facilitate it.

As an example a player I coached in high school is now 24 or so. He was a AAA hockey player. Big and fast, star rugbt player. In Ottawa he saw no future in rugby and barely played - he'd sign up but only play here and there. Since then he moved to the USA South and is on a team that is in the national club championship and he is gung ho for rugby because his league actually means something i.e. not a joke. Presumably if he plays well he'll move up a level or get noticed. Even if he doesn't he contributes to providing a higher level of play/competition for those who do and would inspire younger guys to play rugby and take it seriously. In Canada our structures are so bad this same player can barely even be bothered to register. I'd bet my left nut he's faster/stronger than Pat Parfrey, even with a day job.



Completely agree! And I think it has to at least start at high school level. The way sports work here, with short seasons and people taking up rugby often as 'something to do' at school during a season where they're not doing their 'main' sport, we have to do a better job of making it fun and enriching. It's pretty safe to say that (in addition to those who can afford it), most kids who end up in rep teams are the ones who had good / great coaching at school, not often the best physical specimens who are playing rugby in a school league who'd have a better shot at becoming a stand-out international player.

If the governing bodies did a better job of educating and supporting coaches, their kids get better, leagues get more competitive, more kids make it their main sport because they're more confident / capable / opponents offer a challenge / etc. I don't really give a toss about the national teams any more, and would give it all to see healthier school and club leagues, but surely the knock-on effect is that there'll be a bigger and better talent pool from which to choose national players.

Whenever I hear people go on about the 'elite pathway', I wonder what's so special about the content delivered there? From what I've seen, most of it isn't beyond the knowledge of many coaches, and especially those who have experience coaching other sports and/or are PE teachers. The problem that exists in Canada, is that coaching isn't great, generally speaking. People are still drilling kids like we did in the 90s. There's no real appreciation for the "whys" of tactical and strategic play. Most seemingly are told to do incredibly basic things - crash it up, spin it wide - without knowing the subtleties that kids in New Zealand, England, France, etc develop from a) playing lots and lots of games, exploring things for themselves and b) having good / great coaches steer them in the right directions.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 04 May 2018, 02:38

This looks like a positive development.
http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2018/0 ... rn-canada/

Would be a good structure to be emulated in the western half of the country as well.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 04 May 2018, 02:48

Awesome news. I ask WHY Canada let those senior provincial teams inactive for so long...

Do the same in the West and with 1 final national match you have a decent national competition.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby jonny24 » Fri, 04 May 2018, 03:09

Wow, that sounds like a good idea. I'm surprised there hasn't been any (that I know of) news about it. Being like a week away.
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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 04 May 2018, 03:14

victorsra wrote:Awesome news. I ask WHY Canada let those senior provincial teams inactive for so long...

Do the same in the West and with 1 final national match you have a decent national competition.

RC's own fault for downgrading the CRC to a weekend comp.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 04 May 2018, 03:42

victorsra wrote:Awesome news. I ask WHY Canada let those senior provincial teams inactive for so long...

Do the same in the West and with 1 final national match you have a decent national competition.


The would make sense in my opinion. Run a similar structure in the west. Same finals set up as well to crown a Western Championship. Then on a rotating basis between the two structures the winner from one hosts the winner in the National Championship game. Would be a really solid structure for the game.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby marvinparsons » Fri, 04 May 2018, 05:24

This looks like a positive development. Hopefully the setup is enticing enough to attract the best players i.e. not prohibitively expensive and not completely at odds with/likely to gut club play. It'd be nice to see which of these regions has the best players and there are some legitimate rivalries here. It'd love to catch a few of these games.

This is so much better than the CRC as these guys will actually get to play a decent number of games, the travel isn't outrageous and pretty much any player can be involved without having to move across the country or travel 1000 kms for a tryout.

Hopefully it's well run.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby cien_almas » Fri, 04 May 2018, 14:02

There will be a Calgary/Edmonton/Manitoba/Saskatchewan sr mens series this year.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Fri, 04 May 2018, 17:39

This is GREAT news. I can't believe I'm just hearing about it now. I wonder who's involved, who's selecting, etc...

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 04 May 2018, 22:29

cien_almas wrote:There will be a Calgary/Edmonton/Manitoba/Saskatchewan sr mens series this year.


Nice. Any idea on the format. Will it be home and away on just a straight three games each? Or something like a carnival like event? Either way a great to see. Honestly, this seems like the best way forward for something like the CRC. Break it up into regionally aligned smaller segments that play out over the space of a 6-8 weeks period and then have a national tournament featuring the finalists from each to determine the winner.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Fri, 04 May 2018, 23:03

It will be a 4 game round robin carnival type set up instead of what's going on out East. Edmonton Gold, Calgary Mavericks, Saskatchewan Prairie Fire and Manitoba Buffalo will meet in Regina and play two games over the weekend of June 29th-July 1st. They then head to Calgary for July 6th-8th and play the final Round Robin game on the Friday and then on the Sunday they'll have 1v2 and 3v4 to crown the Prairie champ. While a H&A Prairie League would be the preferred format, part of me is glad they aren't gutting the Alberta Cup for two months of our season. Particularly as some clubs would be hit harder by player selections than others.

On another note, Rugby Alberta and Rugby Canada REALLY love Calgary. Sure Edmonton is getting the Scotland test, which is great, but Calgary gets two Wolf Pack games, the CRC final weekend and the Prairie Super League final weekend.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 04 May 2018, 23:10

Buffalo wrote:It will be a 4 game round robin carnival type set up instead of what's going on out East. Edmonton Gold, Calgary Mavericks, Saskatchewan Prairie Fire and Manitoba Buffalo will meet in Regina and play two games over the weekend of June 29th-July 1st. They then head to Calgary for July 6th-8th and play the final Round Robin game on the Friday and then on the Sunday they'll have 1v2 and 3v4 to crown the Prairie champ. While a H&A Prairie League would be the preferred format, part of me is glad they aren't gutting the Alberta Cup for two months of our season. Particularly as some clubs would be hit harder by player selections than others.

On another note, Rugby Alberta and Rugby Canada REALLY love Calgary. Sure Edmonton is getting the Scotland test, which is great, but Calgary gets two Wolf Pack games, the CRC final weekend and the Prairie Super League final weekend.


When does the club season finish in Canada? I would have thought that this kind of set up would actually be better suited as a post season structure as opposed to running concurrently with the club scene. For a number of reasons. One being without the overlap you could conceivably get more people out to the games and thus make things a little more sustainable all round.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Buffalo » Fri, 04 May 2018, 23:22

Our weather is shite for a large chunk of the year so we can't really do post-season stuff. The Alberta season starts in May and playoffs start in September ending with the provincial finals during the last weekend of September. The only weekends off from games for the Alberta leagues are the four long weekends. April and October are too big of risks when it comes to winter weather. It's not uncommon to have snow falls here late April/early May and late September/early October.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 05 May 2018, 04:08

Canada Selects Will play Arrows in a two match series: https://ontarioarrowsrugby.com/2018/05/ ... ch-series/

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